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Old 04-05-2005, 09:49 PM   #20941
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustRace
Mark is truely a master. Anyone notice how he held the pinion and caliper but was still able to take the picture.

Initial...the only ring you'll have now is the one around the collar
It's a trick I tell you. A tripod. Or Master Mark is a 3 handed Jedi.
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:50 PM   #20942
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
Rene did all the tuning of the pre-tension by observing how my car performed - he can see and hear when it is correct. He does the same in tuning the engine.
So did you find out what you did different when assembling the Centax clutch which you thought would be the source to your bearing failures?
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:51 PM   #20943
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Default Re: Re: ZX-12 RACE Factory Settings

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Originally posted by markp27
4.5 Turns out on the HSN and 5.5 Turns out on the LSN.
Those are very fat LSN settings... Differs a lot from the stock settings Paolo mentioned. What about fuel consumption?
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:28 PM   #20944
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
It's a trick I tell you. A tripod. Or Master Mark is a 3 handed Jedi.
No tripod
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:37 PM   #20945
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
So did you find out what you did different when assembling the Centax clutch which you thought would be the source to your bearing failures?
Last year I was simply using the calipers wrong and getting a very inacurate gap measurement. Once I worked out how it should be really done, I thought it would be the end of my problems, but it was still the same.
After talking to Onkel Sow, he suggested grinding out the first gear a little, so the bearing would fit in easily even when the two gears are screwed together.
This last tip seems to have sorted the rest of my problems out.....I hope

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:39 PM   #20946
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Default Re: Re: Re: ZX-12 RACE Factory Settings

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Those are very fat LSN settings... Differs a lot from the stock settings Paolo mentioned. What about fuel consumption?
Well put it this way, Rene said he would call me in after six minutes for my pit - very nice!
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:51 AM   #20947
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I've recently read a few articles on setting up the Centax 3 clutch and had abit of a play to see what mine was doing.

Setting the clutch gap is a piece of cake, but the endplay had me abit stumped, because I look at adding washers between the adjusting nut and the bearings would reduce the clutch gap? The article states the clutch housing should rotate freely, which mine didn't, so I added washers where its states for endplay and the housing now spins freely. A quick test run on my drive looked like the clutch was coming in earlier which I wanted and abit more agressively.

Am I right in thinking that you measure clutch cap and endplay from the same place? If not, how do you measure end play?
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:00 AM   #20948
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg M
I've recently read a few articles on setting up the Centax 3 clutch and had abit of a play to see what mine was doing.

Setting the clutch gap is a piece of cake, but the endplay had me abit stumped, because I look at adding washers between the adjusting nut and the bearings would reduce the clutch gap? The article states the clutch housing should rotate freely, which mine didn't, so I added washers where its states for endplay and the housing now spins freely. A quick test run on my drive looked like the clutch was coming in earlier which I wanted and abit more agressively.

Am I right in thinking that you measure clutch cap and endplay from the same place? If not, how do you measure end play?
The clutch gap and end-play are measured in exactly the same way.
You first set your clutch gap, then add in your metal shielded bearings, not forgetting the spacer between the two of them.
Now re-measure the movement on the bell-housing and add in the appropriate number of small shims onto the crankshaft, so that you only have 0.2mm of movement on the bell-housing.

I've taken some pictures of the process here (make sure you measure the movement on the clutch bell-housing like I show in the picture).

http://3hobby.net/modules.php?name=F...iewtopic&t=228

Also make sure you read Glenn's excellent article:

http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=10534

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:18 AM   #20949
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg M

Setting the clutch gap is a piece of cake, but the endplay had me abit stumped, because I look at adding washers between the adjusting nut and the bearings would reduce the clutch gap?
The clutch gap is governed by the number of shims you put behind the thrust bearing.
When you've assembled your clutch without any shims, you can push and pull it Xmm. If you want 0.6mm clutch gap, then you simply add in (X-0.6)mm worth of shims. Now the furthest it can be pulled out is 0.6mm and this is your clutch gap.
Adding in the end-play shims simply moves the clutch housing away from the clutch shoe making it closer to the physical movement limit of 0.6mm but can't influence the gap.
Once you have the end-play shims on, as you found out, the clutch will spin freely. If you don't put the end-play shims on, the clutch housing will drag on the clutch shoe and cause the whole thing to overheat, destroying the bearings.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:26 AM   #20950
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Thanks Mark, it all makes sense now. I'm going out in the shed to have another play with the clutch. I think my adjusting nut needs to be a fraction tighter to get alittle later engagement and need some more washes in for end play.

I just fitted the yellow clutch shoe as well, and have the hard spring on back order.
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:30 AM   #20951
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg M
Thanks Mark, it all makes sense now. I'm going out in the shed to have another play with the clutch. I think my adjusting nut needs to be a fraction tighter to get alittle later engagement and need some more washes in for end play.

I just fitted the yellow clutch shoe as well, and have the hard spring on back order.
It is important to play with the pre-tension nut, as it can give the impression that the engine is running too rich....due to pick-up problems.

I'm still learning, too
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Old 04-06-2005, 02:11 AM   #20952
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
It is important to play with the pre-tension nut, as it can give the impression that the engine is running too rich....due to pick-up problems.

I'm still learning, too
Yes, that is why by playing with the pre-tension nut, you can actually set the LSN a little richer and yet have good acceleration.
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:35 AM   #20953
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Yes, that is why by playing with the pre-tension nut, you can actually set the LSN a little richer and yet have good acceleration.
And a little richer would mean less pre-tension...correct?
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Old 04-06-2005, 04:38 AM   #20954
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
And a little richer would mean less pre-tension...correct?
Wouldn't having LSN richer mean that more pre-tension was required so the the engine would be able to build revs before clutch engagement.
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:22 AM   #20955
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: ZX-12 RACE Factory Settings

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
Well put it this way, Rene said he would call me in after six minutes for my pit - very nice!
Hi Guys,

Sometimes, LSN does not have same length (a few tents of difference) and so it is very difficult to share same carburation setup just by the total turns of the needle. Normally i like the LSN a little bit rich (just a little) Engine still need to have a good idle (and i like very low RPM idle, this also helps fuel consuption) but smoking enough out of the corner. What i do is pinch the fuel line and the engine need to keep the same rpm ad idle for 5 sec., then start to rev up. THat's more or less the starting point for any track. Then if the track is small and with a lot of hairpins, of course the engine will not have any chance to totally empty himself, so i lean the bottom a little bit, and the opposite if you have a lot of full throttle sections with the engine that is almost no time at idle.

HSN i like always to be on the rich side, specially because the engine takes a some laps to reach the operational temp. Normalli in all the engines i have run, the HSN is close to the lip of the HSN holder (opssss, don't remember the excat name, anyway is the HSN housing )

Regarding clutch..... it is always REALLY important

Paolo
Serpent USA
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