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Old 07-05-2014, 08:03 PM
  #18976  
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Hope that helps.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:31 PM
  #18977  
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We are going to use a Tamiya hand-out brushless motor. The motor is rated at 2300 KV per volt. At 7.4 volts the motor will turn 17,020 RPM. That's roughly about the same RPM as a broken in Mabuchi/Johnson or slightly less depending on who's memory we're talking about. Anyway, you guys will be running at a fun speed rather than a crazy speed I've recently seen with some of these 21.5 motors that have tons of timing.
Fred, if I ran mini at TCS, I'd be kissing your feet right now, as those who do race TCS should, as well. Great choice of KV for the platform.

Very curious about a new spec tire. Improvements like these keep classes thriving!
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:20 PM
  #18978  
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Thanks to all for the feedback and sorry to bug you at the track also, Fred.

Today was a very interesting day at the track. Since no one had an example of the Spec motor, we were all dialing back the timing on the 21.5s. Went out first with a Killshot motored car and took a couple of guesses and found a setting that seemed very close to Silvercan speed. The timer was on and for once I had a clear track. First lap must have been a mistake cause it was right there with the times I ran with this car with the motor dialed up. I knew something had to be wrong cause the 2nd lap was faster. 3rd, 4th, and 5th laps were even better. What a revoltin' development this was.

Took my "good" car next with the timing backed off and ran just 0.3 sec off what 2 of the best drivers here at the track did with it and I'm not that good. Incidentally this car is very, very good.

I'm tellin' ya, just when you think you're getting a handle on this Mini racing, crap like this happens to restore a little humility. We also had some of the best door handle to door handle racing that I've seen since we started with the speed run 21.5 racing.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:36 PM
  #18979  
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
Fred, if I ran mini at TCS, I'd be kissing your feet right now, as those who do race TCS should, as well. Great choice of KV for the platform.

Very curious about a new spec tire. Improvements like these keep classes thriving!
Jim, let's not get carried away here. For one thing, I'm not kissin' anyones feet including Fred's. For another thing none of the Mini racers here at the Tamiya track has seen one yet. We haven't a clue as to whether we'll be racing this motor or whether it's going to be just for the Nationals. Too many unanswered questions for me to work up a lot of enthusiasm yet. It may be a step in the right direction, but who knows. Maybe, just the Shadow.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:06 PM
  #18980  
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Alright, maybe I got excited. That bunion on the right foot looks nasty. It would be awesome, both in and out of TCS, for everyone to have a spec motor to reference, as we did with silver cans. (Minus silver can problems, perceived or real)

If a club someplace decides to go spec BL, having something like this as a standard would be a great reference point, just as the adoption of HW 13t has been for many. It would be good for Tamiya, too, as a way to keep us and our wallets in the fold.

Sell them for about the price of 3 silver cans (~$50) and I'll buy one "just because".
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:20 AM
  #18981  
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
Alright, maybe I got excited. That bunion on the right foot looks nasty. It would be awesome, both in and out of TCS, for everyone to have a spec motor to reference, as we did with silver cans. (Minus silver can problems, perceived or real)

If a club someplace decides to go spec BL, having something like this as a standard would be a great reference point, just as the adoption of HW 13t has been for many. It would be good for Tamiya, too, as a way to keep us and our wallets in the fold.

Sell them for about the price of 3 silver cans (~$50) and I'll buy one "just because".
Jim, you're absolutely right as far as the brushless motor deal goes. The Spec motor, if the specs are to be believed, is really close to a good Silvercan. Just a plain ole $15-20, Silvercan will run very close to this motor.

Well, it's all been said before. It's sorta like "arguing" with someone that believes that the operation of a electric car like a Tesla doesn't cause pollutants.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:34 AM
  #18982  
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What will be the course of action should an insert in the Mini Premounts come 'detached' and bunch up in the tire?

Mounted a fresh set yesterday during practice and thinking the 'slightly weird' handling was just a case of the 'new tire blues'.. Come to find out one tire had an air-gap-flat about 1/4 the circumference of the tire.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:10 PM
  #18983  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
What will be the course of action should an insert in the Mini Premounts come 'detached' and bunch up in the tire?

Mounted a fresh set yesterday during practice and thinking the 'slightly weird' handling was just a case of the 'new tire blues'.. Come to find out one tire had an air-gap-flat about 1/4 the circumference of the tire.
Let's hope they'll let us get a replacement. Seems only "fair" cause that could really mess up your weekend.

This is a manufacturing defect. The contractor doing the mounting does not glue the inserts together so they can separate. It's always on a front tire. IMO this is the result of a habit many of us may have. You turn on the TX, then turn on the car, jiggle the steering, yep, that's okay. Then pick up the car and go woom, woom with the throttle to check if you have motor. That's where the problem occurs. If the tire "balloons" a bit, that insert will start to walk. Someone smarter than me figured this out.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Let's hope they'll let us get a replacement. Seems only "fair" cause that could really mess up your weekend.

This is a manufacturing defect. The contractor doing the mounting does not glue the inserts together so they can separate. It's always on a front tire. IMO this is the result of a habit many of us may have. You turn on the TX, then turn on the car, jiggle the steering, yep, that's okay. Then pick up the car and go woom, woom with the throttle to check if you have motor. That's where the problem occurs. If the tire "balloons" a bit, that insert will start to walk. Someone smarter than me figured this out.

Sounds logical.

Rarely do I crank the throttle with no load at the tire. Not good for drivetrain. And my R1-Wurks was de-tuned down to only 20degrees of timing all day.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:04 PM
  #18985  
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While I am probably not the best person to comment on this (not been to TA in a while to run...), but when these motors first came out a few years back, I ran one in my mini for the madness sessions at the track. The motor was not on par with the 21.5s from other brands, but was just a tick faster than a good silvercan (good, not "tweaked"). The benefits obviously were the lack of heat build up in the motor.

The can is slightly longer than a regular brushless motor as well which made soldering contacts easier. Had I been a better driver in mini, I think the motor would have showed more pace. Regardless of specs, the motor is good for mini, and better than the silvercan. Obviously no timing is provided as an option, but like silvercans, I am sure you will be anle to "wrench" it over if you try.

If it was possible, it would be great to have this be the mandatory motor all year around for the class. The reason this is not an option is due to the lack of technical support stateside. This is nothing against my former colleagues at Tamiya USA, but rather just fact. If you have your LRP blow up, you can take it in, get it fixed and sent back, or simply replaced. With the Tamiya motors, the only option they would have would be to replace every motor no matter the defect as they do not have the parts, or proper support given to them to service these items. As I recall, this was proposed 2-3 years ago and Fred explained why it was not possible.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:26 PM
  #18986  
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Originally Posted by AWK
While I am probably not the best person to comment on this (not been to TA in a while to run...), but when these motors first came out a few years back, I ran one in my mini for the madness sessions at the track. The motor was not on par with the 21.5s from other brands, but was just a tick faster than a good silvercan (good, not "tweaked"). The benefits obviously were the lack of heat build up in the motor.

The can is slightly longer than a regular brushless motor as well which made soldering contacts easier. Had I been a better driver in mini, I think the motor would have showed more pace. Regardless of specs, the motor is good for mini, and better than the silvercan. Obviously no timing is provided as an option, but like silvercans, I am sure you will be anle to "wrench" it over if you try.

If it was possible, it would be great to have this be the mandatory motor all year around for the class. The reason this is not an option is due to the lack of technical support stateside. This is nothing against my former colleagues at Tamiya USA, but rather just fact. If you have your LRP blow up, you can take it in, get it fixed and sent back, or simply replaced. With the Tamiya motors, the only option they would have would be to replace every motor no matter the defect as they do not have the parts, or proper support given to them to service these items. As I recall, this was proposed 2-3 years ago and Fred explained why it was not possible.
That's all good to know. Thanks for the information.

So, while you're in a sharing mood, why was Tamiya so reluctant to just pick one motor out of the pack and say this is the motor and will be set at this timing? Parity would be there and the problems of support would be eliminated. I imagine that some motor manufacturers might be bent out of shape, but the TCS Mini motor market is minuscule. Motors could be added to the list later as they are tested against the Spec. motor. If the motor makers were interested in this market they could submit motors for testing. My guess is that there won't be much interest.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:46 AM
  #18987  
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Originally Posted by OSherman
What will be the course of action should an insert in the Mini Premounts come 'detached' and bunch up in the tire?

Mounted a fresh set yesterday during practice and thinking the 'slightly weird' handling was just a case of the 'new tire blues'.. Come to find out one tire had an air-gap-flat about 1/4 the circumference of the tire.
+1 I bought 9 sets so far and at least 1 tire in 4 sets are bad. Am I just having a bad luck?
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
That's all good to know. Thanks for the information.

So, while you're in a sharing mood, why was Tamiya so reluctant to just pick one motor out of the pack and say this is the motor and will be set at this timing? Parity would be there and the problems of support would be eliminated. I imagine that some motor manufacturers might be bent out of shape, but the TCS Mini motor market is minuscule. Motors could be added to the list later as they are tested against the Spec. motor. If the motor makers were interested in this market they could submit motors for testing. My guess is that there won't be much interest.
I can't pretend to peak for the company or Fred. I haven't worked there in a few years now, so anything recent you'd have to speak to Fred about. I would say in my own opinion, this way provides the most parity for the nationals. Can't advance timing, change rotors, etc. Using a motor that no one has any prior experience with will make things very equal. Also, it allows for a little more Tamiya product to be used in the Tamiya series.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:21 AM
  #18989  
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Originally Posted by fx35rc
+1 I bought 9 sets so far and at least 1 tire in 4 sets are bad. Am I just having a bad luck?
Honestly... I purchased only two sets from TQ Raceway a lil over a month ago. One set of which 'had issues' of the air-gap-flat. That's 50% hit-miss per set it seems. Not a good feeling.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fx35rc
+1 I bought 9 sets so far and at least 1 tire in 4 sets are bad. Am I just having a bad luck?
Haven't bought 9 sets - but purchased 2 sets recently. Both sets had at least one tire fail prematurely. If the tires aren't going to use a molded insert, they should be built with one that doesn't require the ends to be glued together...
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