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Old 01-04-2004, 01:17 PM   #2581
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
Crashed you should be able to use standard shaft drive pins like drive the pulleys, I'm curious how you are suppose to hold them in? do you install them then tape around the axle to retain them??

Julius hows that suppose to be done?
I think you are referring to the locking pins of the front one way? Thare is an alu collar that slides over the pins and held in place by an o-ring.
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:35 PM   #2582
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Quote:
Originally posted by B
Thanks for the response.
When you say that you have to sand the parts, does it mean that the parts wont fit without sanding? Or do they just bind?
Bind
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:55 PM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
The B measurement is not fixed. It's defined by as you say:"the depth of the recess into the 1st gear pinion and the thickness of the thrust bearing and the bearing holder" AND the amount of shims between the steel holder and the thrust bearing!

This is where you set clutch gap on the Centax3 (as it was on the centax2).

After you set the gap you may notice that with bearings etc. installed you can still push the bell onto the clutch shoe. This is where the small shims come in. You put the between the clutch nut and the inner bearing. Make sure you have a little end play (about 0.2mm should be ok).
Julius, we have to define terms. The only purpose of the original calculation, is to determine the shim requirement; the "B" measurement IS fixed, as there are no shims present during the initial measurement process. "B" is modified only by the addition of shims between the thrust bearing carrier and the thrust bearing. If you choose to re-measure after adding a shim, the "B" is no longer "B". It becomes, for example, "BS" (for "B" with a shim). Does this matter? It matters; if "A" is less than 1.7 mm you cannot obtain the clutch clearance of 0.7mm.

Shim = A - B - 0.7
IN the initial measurement
Shim = 0
So,
0 = A - B - 0.7
transposing
B + 0.7 = A
"B" is fixed at 1 mm, so
1 + 0.7 = A
A = 1.7 mm
ANY VALUE OF "A" LESS THAN 1.7 MM RESULTS IN A NEGATIVE NUMBER FOR SHIM REQUIREMENT. FOR EXAMPLE
Shim = A - B - 0.7
Let A' = 1.6
let A = A'
B = 1
Then
1.6 -1 -0.7 = Shim
transposing
Shim = - 0.1 mm

I believe this text is as I remember it from the original Centax clutch instruction (although memory grows dim).
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Old 01-04-2004, 03:04 PM   #2584
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Default Re: Centax Clutch

Quote:
Originally posted by JABRONI
Mike Myers was interested in Art Carbonell's thought on the car??

From the Starting Grid Forum: Art Carbonell testing the clutch set up that many have reported as being very unresponsive.

ART:The one thing I noticed that I didn’t really care for was thethrottle response. I’m not sure what the problem is exactly. I want to try it some more. I played with the clutch spring a little bit. It didn’t seem to help that much. You had to pull the trigger quite a bit before the car actually “went”. This will be something for my next test session, trying to figure out what it is. I heard of some people having a similar problem. This is with the standard gear ratio.

As to the clutch, Art got it figured out. Apparently the spring was
wrong. After checking everything out, Art installed what he felt was the correct spring, and that cured the problem. Here's a photo of the two springs:

WELL, WHAT IS IT?????????????

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Old 01-04-2004, 04:12 PM   #2585
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My old Vetec spring looks the same as the kit one. The Mugen mtx3 spring is also 1.8 mm diameter, and the same width but is 10 mm long instead of 9 mm.
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:40 PM   #2586
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Tried Fast Harrys recommended HPI 74100 pinion gear wrench-works better than my fingers! Less than $8
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:40 PM   #2587
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Guys Im new to this thread and was wondering if you can get the 710 with engine and exhaust in one and how much, and what engine and pipe would come with it and are they any good?
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:59 PM   #2588
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Quote:
Originally posted by clmbia45
Tried Fast Harrys recommended HPI 74100 pinion gear wrench-works better than my fingers! Less than $8


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Old 01-04-2004, 05:15 PM   #2589
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Looks like the Kyosho spring.
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:45 PM   #2590
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Quote:
Originally posted by B
When you say that you have to sand the parts, does it mean that the parts wont fit without sanding? Or do they just bind?
I did not need to sand or grind anything when building the 710 unlike when it was necessary for the 705. Only the shock pistons need to be smoothen to take out small plastic flashes. That's all.
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:51 PM   #2591
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Quote:
Originally posted by clmbia45
ANY VALUE OF "A" LESS THAN 1.7 MM RESULTS IN A NEGATIVE NUMBER FOR SHIM REQUIREMENT.
You are right... In all my Centax clutch assemblies on different engines and other car makes, I have never needed to put negative shims !

But seriously, this only happens if you put a lot of shims at step 8.1. More than the recommended 0.5 mm. Somehow with the recommeded 0.5 mm shim, things always work out fine that you always need to add shim in the front of the thrust bearing as in step 8.6. My 2 cents.
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:54 PM   #2592
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Quote:
Originally posted by nad138
After installing the dogbones and adjusting it with the suggested length of the hub carrier/arms (step 1.11), I inspected how much throw left/right it can go, and noticed that there is a possibility for the dogbone to pop-out if you really set an aggressive end point (looking forward with servos are installed).
On the 705, I needed to put O rings or fuel tubings as spacers in the front between the dogbone and the one way drive cup to keep the dogbones from falling. On the 710, I have not seen the need to do that... yet !

I don't know how you're measuring the length of the hub carrier/arms but make sure you set your front trackwidth to 200 mm or below at the end of the day. That should keep the dogbones in place.
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:59 PM   #2593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
I believe that gray spring is what came on some of the impacts, a soft mugen spring is close to it. Most centax springs are the same diameter and close in length. So you can look around at what is available off the shelf from other makers.
I think the grey ones were the older ones from the Centax I. The gold ones that come with Centax II (and III) are harder and they are 1.8 mm in diameter if I'm not mistaken. For me, the harder the spring, the better the punch !

Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
Crashed you should be able to use standard shaft drive pins like drive the pulleys, I'm curious how you are suppose to hold them in? do you install them then tape around the axle to retain them??
Ah, I forgot to measure the length of the pins... I know that the diameter of the pins should be 2.5 mm. I had one of those pins around from previous parts of the Impulse cars and it fitted tight and fine. The length was just right.

Dennis, instead of waiting for the aluminum collar, what people here are doing is to use the thick silicone coupler meant to join the exhaust pipe and manifold ! I think you should have some around do ya? That would do the trick and cheap too !
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Old 01-04-2004, 06:00 PM   #2594
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Quote:
Originally posted by clmbia45
My old Vetec spring looks the same as the kit one. The Mugen mtx3 spring is also 1.8 mm diameter, and the same width but is 10 mm long instead of 9 mm.
I use the Mugen hard silver spring on my 705 Centax II clutch. Although like you say their springs are like 10 mm long, it'll fit fine in the Serpent Centax clutch.
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Old 01-04-2004, 06:11 PM   #2595
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
never believe everything you read, remember there is no fuel tank problem you infidel.
Thanks for the reminder Dennis ! I almost forgot that I should not believe what I read...

Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
Wanna wager some green. They'll have ball diffs available to them too you wait and see. They bring everything but the kitchen sink to the Fort. Usually they are pretty good about making them available to everyone thats there, at least thats been the impression I had the last time I was there.
Well, when I said that "they" would not have the yellow shoes, I meant the "ordinary" Serpent drivers. Not the real ones !

Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
Actually D I think your confusing the black shoe with the XP graphite shoe. The black shoe is fairly hard and slips quite a bit and wears out decent. The XP is more gray colored and has better bite than the black, the yellow is abrasive and harder it bites similar to a red Rulon shoe however I think the Rulon shoe is the most abrasive and bites the hardest.
Ummm Dennis, I hate to prove somebody wrong but if you look at the parts list, you will see that the included stock clutch shoe 802508 is the Centax-3 clutch shoe XP ! Unless of course Serpent screwed up with the part number again... I believe the other black one you're referring to has already been made obselete by Serpent if I'm not wrong...

Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
I run the Red shoe modified with a soft spring on my cars, as the new engines have excellent low speed torque. If your clutch engages to high you get smoked off the corner (sounds impressive but the car ain't goin nowhere) and then you go up in smoke in tire spin. I set up the clutch to engage as low as possible without bogging the engine, If its bogging don't be afraid to gear first down and step the two speed more teeth. we fought this bad on Impacts untill we went to 15 on first. I even latched onto some old Excel centax bells that are one piece and have 14 and 13 on first for my impact.
Thanks for the tip Dennis. For me, I think I'm addressing the issue the other way around. I like to use harder springs or set it hard and then move the end float as close as possible. I think this gives me very good punch of the bat !
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