4LikesViper RC -
09-08-2013 | 08:55 PM
#8941
Tech Adept
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 129
From: Louisiana
Yeah I ran a tenshock on a vtx8 for a while, worked good too.
I had the same problem you had with a lot of heat and no power.
I have posted this before, and almost retuned a 2nd vtx8, but when I put a couple degrees of timing in, it cut all that junk out. I don't know why, but one both the vtx8's I have had, will not let me take out timing, once I have entered the use at your own risk part of the programmer, it will go nuts and overheat everything. same deal.
I run a little timing, and have no problems even with a tenshock truggy motor with a high voltage savox servo.
I never could tame the power of the tenshock motors, Iv'e tried a bunch.. back to a 4 pole motor.
I had the same problem you had with a lot of heat and no power.
I have posted this before, and almost retuned a 2nd vtx8, but when I put a couple degrees of timing in, it cut all that junk out. I don't know why, but one both the vtx8's I have had, will not let me take out timing, once I have entered the use at your own risk part of the programmer, it will go nuts and overheat everything. same deal.
I run a little timing, and have no problems even with a tenshock truggy motor with a high voltage savox servo.
I never could tame the power of the tenshock motors, Iv'e tried a bunch.. back to a 4 pole motor.
09-09-2013 | 06:56 AM
#8943
Tech Adept
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 191
I bought a VTX8 with a quick programmer about a month ago for my Tekno eb48 and before I purchased I messaged Viper about running with a 6 pole Tenshock 2150 x812.
They suggested I start with 40% punch because of the large amp draw.
I installed it with a Hitec HS-7955TG V2 Servo, Futaba receiver, 4s turnigy a-spec 150c 6200mah batts, 15t pinion also set the speedo to 40% punch 33% brake.
Went out and ran it for about 10 minutes hard on a parking lot while I kept checking the temps....Temp out at 180 after hard accel and braking.
I was extremely happy with it so smooth and loads of top end.
Turned it off and let it sit for about an hour then I go to the track and turned it on as I started to roll out it didn't move I gave it full throttle and it kinda started to roll. Then it started to go I thought ok a little glitch and here we go... nope I got scared... had no top end or torque and when I stopped it got all kinda stuttUTUTTER. It was super hot after a 60 sec run from all the stuttering....figure the sensor side burnt up. So I RMA it back to Viper Where it is now. Hope I get one back.
So I bought another one for my short course Tekno SCT410 to run with a Tekin 4300hd pro 4 pole with a Hitec HS-7955TG V2 Servo, Futaba receiver, turnigy a-spec 2s 150c 6200mah batt,
Guess what it ran the first day for about six hours of battery after battery man was I feeling good. Good temps smooth power no lag all good had the track all to myself too....awesome day thanks viper it was really a good day.
.......RACE day!.....
I went race and boom stutter........OMG I was like no way.....pulled off on the first qualifier and slowwly turned the first lap. I ran back to the pit to check the sensor wire push? tugged? pushed again...? Everything looked good nothing loose ? turned it on and boom all good.
Put it back on the track and completed two laps.
........ went out on the second qualifier.........
Scared.... drove around made it through the second qualifier and was ok got that over with whew!
......went out for the Third qualifier.....
And guess what stut stut stut all my friends are now sitting in the stands watching me walk the walk of shame down the stand to the end of the grid before the race to pick up my truck and check the sensor wire when one of my friends suggested I cap the bec. He had one handy we threw it in position 3 on the rcvr and boom I completed 2 laps with no problems other than now I am completely shook up. Qualified 8th out of 9!
....The Main......
So I run the main completly with no confidence and all over the place and finish 3rd LOL!
beat 4th by .015 of a second. Didn't feel as good as I did on the other day, mixed emotions I guess......
: eek:
!
Whats the moral of the story I think the Viper BEC are weak and need a capacitor when you run powerful motors with powerful servos with powerful Batteries. By the way Turnigy nano-tech and A-SPEC batterries are full of C's.
Wish I had my other VTX8 back and could cap it and see if that fixes that one.
Hope this helps someone. ( I predict in 6 mos when 1/8 scale E Truggy kicks off someone will read this)
When the VTX8 is working it is awesome.
The 6 pole tenshock and this esc were like a 10th scale buggy.
Super smooth, like buttah, I think I could rock crawl with it!!
I think Viper is makin a quality product and really love the quality of the VTX8.
Mine does Temp out if I put the motor temp at 180 but when I temp it with two different temp guns they are no warmer than 160. right after it shows flashing snake eyes.
Good luck Viper I want a really cool Tshirt! and let me test any new stuff!!!
I like Viper!
VTX8 Stutters, VTX8 lags, VTX8 barely moves
They suggested I start with 40% punch because of the large amp draw.
I installed it with a Hitec HS-7955TG V2 Servo, Futaba receiver, 4s turnigy a-spec 150c 6200mah batts, 15t pinion also set the speedo to 40% punch 33% brake.
Went out and ran it for about 10 minutes hard on a parking lot while I kept checking the temps....Temp out at 180 after hard accel and braking.
I was extremely happy with it so smooth and loads of top end.
Turned it off and let it sit for about an hour then I go to the track and turned it on as I started to roll out it didn't move I gave it full throttle and it kinda started to roll. Then it started to go I thought ok a little glitch and here we go... nope I got scared... had no top end or torque and when I stopped it got all kinda stuttUTUTTER. It was super hot after a 60 sec run from all the stuttering....figure the sensor side burnt up. So I RMA it back to Viper Where it is now. Hope I get one back.
So I bought another one for my short course Tekno SCT410 to run with a Tekin 4300hd pro 4 pole with a Hitec HS-7955TG V2 Servo, Futaba receiver, turnigy a-spec 2s 150c 6200mah batt,
Guess what it ran the first day for about six hours of battery after battery man was I feeling good. Good temps smooth power no lag all good had the track all to myself too....awesome day thanks viper it was really a good day.
.......RACE day!.....
I went race and boom stutter........OMG I was like no way.....pulled off on the first qualifier and slowwly turned the first lap. I ran back to the pit to check the sensor wire push? tugged? pushed again...? Everything looked good nothing loose ? turned it on and boom all good.
Put it back on the track and completed two laps.
........ went out on the second qualifier.........
Scared.... drove around made it through the second qualifier and was ok got that over with whew!
......went out for the Third qualifier.....
And guess what stut stut stut all my friends are now sitting in the stands watching me walk the walk of shame down the stand to the end of the grid before the race to pick up my truck and check the sensor wire when one of my friends suggested I cap the bec. He had one handy we threw it in position 3 on the rcvr and boom I completed 2 laps with no problems other than now I am completely shook up. Qualified 8th out of 9!
....The Main......
So I run the main completly with no confidence and all over the place and finish 3rd LOL!
beat 4th by .015 of a second. Didn't feel as good as I did on the other day, mixed emotions I guess......: eek:!Whats the moral of the story I think the Viper BEC are weak and need a capacitor when you run powerful motors with powerful servos with powerful Batteries. By the way Turnigy nano-tech and A-SPEC batterries are full of C's.
Wish I had my other VTX8 back and could cap it and see if that fixes that one.
Hope this helps someone. ( I predict in 6 mos when 1/8 scale E Truggy kicks off someone will read this)
When the VTX8 is working it is awesome.
The 6 pole tenshock and this esc were like a 10th scale buggy.
Super smooth, like buttah, I think I could rock crawl with it!!
I think Viper is makin a quality product and really love the quality of the VTX8.
Mine does Temp out if I put the motor temp at 180 but when I temp it with two different temp guns they are no warmer than 160. right after it shows flashing snake eyes.
Good luck Viper I want a really cool Tshirt! and let me test any new stuff!!!
I like Viper!
VTX8 Stutters, VTX8 lags, VTX8 barely moves
Double check you have the updated firmware and if it starts shuddering see if upping the punch, start power or changing the throttle curve drastically (very high) will have any effect. You can also try push starting it, like I had to do, if I was trying to move from a dead stop.
09-09-2013 | 07:30 AM
#8944
Ok so I have a servo tester question I'm hoping someone can help with. I had a Hitec HS-8370TH die on me during a race over the weekend, luckily I had a DS1015 in my pit box so I was all good for the A main.
Today I brought the servo into work so that I could call Hitech and get it sent it for warranty/service and I decided to open it up and see if I could see anything...I also brought a lipo and my ProGauge with me and another servo (Solar D770). Well after opening the Hitec servo and not seeing anything obvious on the PCB or in connections I put it back together and plugged it into the ProGauge. Boom the servo snapped to life.
So I'm letting the servo tester run cycles on the servo and one thing I noted was that the current draw seemed awfully high to me, it was reading 4.5A-4.75A for a full sweep. At that point I plugged in the D770 which runs about as fast (as it should by spec) but pulls WAY less current at 2.11A in one direction to 2.65A in the other direction. Now I get that the Hitec servo has WAY more torque (double), does that account for the added current draw? I would think that the fact that the Hitec is drawing more current than my ESC BEC is outputting would be a bad thing. Also I've seen threads about Savox servos (supposedly power hungry) where people have shown current draw graphs where they weren't pulling much more than 2A.
So I guess what I'm really asking here is has anyone use the servo tester feature much on the ProGauge? If so what sort of current draw are you seeing from fast highish (250 oz/in) torque servos?
Today I brought the servo into work so that I could call Hitech and get it sent it for warranty/service and I decided to open it up and see if I could see anything...I also brought a lipo and my ProGauge with me and another servo (Solar D770). Well after opening the Hitec servo and not seeing anything obvious on the PCB or in connections I put it back together and plugged it into the ProGauge. Boom the servo snapped to life.
So I'm letting the servo tester run cycles on the servo and one thing I noted was that the current draw seemed awfully high to me, it was reading 4.5A-4.75A for a full sweep. At that point I plugged in the D770 which runs about as fast (as it should by spec) but pulls WAY less current at 2.11A in one direction to 2.65A in the other direction. Now I get that the Hitec servo has WAY more torque (double), does that account for the added current draw? I would think that the fact that the Hitec is drawing more current than my ESC BEC is outputting would be a bad thing. Also I've seen threads about Savox servos (supposedly power hungry) where people have shown current draw graphs where they weren't pulling much more than 2A.
So I guess what I'm really asking here is has anyone use the servo tester feature much on the ProGauge? If so what sort of current draw are you seeing from fast highish (250 oz/in) torque servos?
09-09-2013 | 08:29 AM
#8945
I ran one of these on my car too when it was hot out. You can see as much as a 35 degree drop (which is huge)
http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p...8#.Uiz0I8a1HEs
http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p...8#.Uiz0I8a1HEs
This should work right?
09-09-2013 | 09:20 AM
#8947
on the Viper ESCs, can you tell if it was the motor or the ESC temp that caused the cutoff?
So if I am understanding it right as far as what Viper ESC states for temp cutoffs, its about 20 degrees more than what you see on your temp gun right?
So if I want it to cutoff the ESC and motor at 220, then I set the ESC settings to 240, correct?
Also, for the preset profiles, are these changeable?
If so, how do you reset them to the stock defaults short of manually doing it?
So if I am understanding it right as far as what Viper ESC states for temp cutoffs, its about 20 degrees more than what you see on your temp gun right?
So if I want it to cutoff the ESC and motor at 220, then I set the ESC settings to 240, correct?
Also, for the preset profiles, are these changeable?
If so, how do you reset them to the stock defaults short of manually doing it?
09-09-2013 | 09:52 AM
#8950
Tech Addict
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 718
Also check all your solder joints. Make sure a,b,c on the motor are solid. Also check your wire and make sure it's fully plugged into motor and esc.
Last edited by SikKustomz; 09-09-2013 at 10:17 AM.
09-09-2013 | 11:15 AM
#8951
Sorry been away so long a cruise with no internet and a few sick days have kept me away -- let's try and catch up.
First - If I missed your question or concern - PM me or re post it, I tried to go back a bit.
kaisertrip- check your PM, seems like there are multiple things going on here to work out.
Timing on 4 pole - 6 pole motors = something to be very, very careful with. Most of these motors have timing built into them (you don't see it because the endbells are capped). Its easy to overheat the motor if not set up correctly. If you do want to use it - monitor your temps closely, only use small abouts 5*, low slew rate 2 at most.
Cut off Temps - yes, all the cuts off are read internally (either the esc circuit board or rotor on motor). Temps can be as much as 50-70 higher inside the units than outside on the case, where you measure with a temp gun. Add to the fact that we can not guarantee every other companies sensor unit, so that might add a little difference as well. Its an extra piece of the puzzle but it never hurts to have another way to measure temperature.
AssocRacer - yes its sounds like the neutral signal from the radio is a little erratic. Try moving throttle trim 3-4 clicks one way an re-calibrate. If you have a radio with multiple models, try a different model. Each one has its own individual end points, so one may be more "tricky" than others. I run a Futaba 4pks and my model #4 is like that, needs to be trimmed +5 to hold neutral properly. Of course once you calibrate the esc, you get the full range of throttle and brake even though you moved the trim -- don't move it back, you would be adjusting the neutral point.
First - If I missed your question or concern - PM me or re post it, I tried to go back a bit.
kaisertrip- check your PM, seems like there are multiple things going on here to work out.
Timing on 4 pole - 6 pole motors = something to be very, very careful with. Most of these motors have timing built into them (you don't see it because the endbells are capped). Its easy to overheat the motor if not set up correctly. If you do want to use it - monitor your temps closely, only use small abouts 5*, low slew rate 2 at most.
Cut off Temps - yes, all the cuts off are read internally (either the esc circuit board or rotor on motor). Temps can be as much as 50-70 higher inside the units than outside on the case, where you measure with a temp gun. Add to the fact that we can not guarantee every other companies sensor unit, so that might add a little difference as well. Its an extra piece of the puzzle but it never hurts to have another way to measure temperature.
AssocRacer - yes its sounds like the neutral signal from the radio is a little erratic. Try moving throttle trim 3-4 clicks one way an re-calibrate. If you have a radio with multiple models, try a different model. Each one has its own individual end points, so one may be more "tricky" than others. I run a Futaba 4pks and my model #4 is like that, needs to be trimmed +5 to hold neutral properly. Of course once you calibrate the esc, you get the full range of throttle and brake even though you moved the trim -- don't move it back, you would be adjusting the neutral point.
09-09-2013 | 11:31 AM
#8952
I have the eb48 and vtx8, I have my esc set to cutoff at 210, a temp gun will tell me its about 180 when it cuts off at 210.
that pinion seems a bit big, but all you can do is use the least amount of brake power and thicken the center diff up if it is revving out a lot..do whatever it takes to get rid of wheel spin..
I also prefer to use thermal conduct paste between the motor and mount instead of a heatsink.
that pinion seems a bit big, but all you can do is use the least amount of brake power and thicken the center diff up if it is revving out a lot..do whatever it takes to get rid of wheel spin..
I also prefer to use thermal conduct paste between the motor and mount instead of a heatsink.
OK sir i will move it up to 210
09-09-2013 | 11:58 AM
#8953
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,616
From: New Jersey
as long as that thing fits in your car and works off the receiver, sure!
I grabbed the one I linked cause the shop had it in stock. I watched a kid running one in his Ofna (don't laugh cause he's fast as hell in that Ofna LOL) use one and he dropped his temps 40 deg. I figured that even if I got half of that, it would be worth it. I tried removing the fan from the heat sink and just mounting it on the side pod but that didn't work as well. You need both the heatsink and the fan to really do anything.
I grabbed the one I linked cause the shop had it in stock. I watched a kid running one in his Ofna (don't laugh cause he's fast as hell in that Ofna LOL) use one and he dropped his temps 40 deg. I figured that even if I got half of that, it would be worth it. I tried removing the fan from the heat sink and just mounting it on the side pod but that didn't work as well. You need both the heatsink and the fan to really do anything.
09-10-2013 | 02:31 AM
#8954
Tech Apprentice
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 99
From: Noblesville, IN
On the VTX8/Pro4 4600kv combo - Can not having my start and finish RPM set to the formula in the manual contribute to heat problems or at least keep the motor from running as well as it should? Also, what about slew rate? I noticed mine was set to 8. Can that be causing issues as well?
09-10-2013 | 05:00 AM
#8955
8?!?!?! That's your problem. I don't run any timing on mine whatsoever. Nine times out of ten the 4x4 short course trucks feel overpowered anyway. I can almost guarantee that is your problem. Go into the motor power section and disable it all and see how the truck runs.