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Old 03-29-2004, 07:24 AM   #7096
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmaris Europe
The length of time they last varies with several key things. They require greasing constantly to keep the dirt out. We actually take them out between every 5min qualifier and regrease.

The other thing that would blow one after a days running is that the clutch is not shimmed correct. Bad set up of the clutch will have you sticking in new thrust bearings every other run. Make sure the external shims are correct to minimise the amount of wobble on the bell.
I am wonderring if the guys blowing the thrust bearing have boen the clutch mod or are running the book setup? reason I ask is I want to know if it is the book setup that blows the bearings or the mod?
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:36 AM   #7097
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I am wonderring if the guys blowing the thrust bearing have boen the clutch mod or are running the book setup? reason I ask is I want to know if it is the book setup that blows the bearings or the mod?
Not sure about the 710 but with the 705 I blew a thrust bearing within 30mins with the book set up.

I stripped the clutch down and went to a 0.3mm gap instead of the stated 0.7mm and have not changed a thrust bearing since.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:38 AM   #7098
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I am wonderring if the guys blowing the thrust bearing have boen the clutch mod or are running the book setup? reason I ask is I want to know if it is the book setup that blows the bearings or the mod?
I believe serpent motorsport is not that worst.. it's been 2 years of making anyway
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:48 AM   #7099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
I believe serpent motorsport is not that worst.. it's been 2 years of making anyway
I think I agree with you, but I am not sure what you mean, did you mean that it is the mod that seems to be causing it?

Mark and Dee, what is your input in the matter, could it be an incorrectly modded clutch although I dont thing it would be the mod, maybe the spacer difference, like instead of the 0.7mm, having a 0.4mm gap? tell me, with the 0.7mm gap the clutch tends to slip and engage VERY late, how about turning the clutch nut out, will this not correct this problem? I know it has been asked many times, but the reason I am bringing it up is because I have seen a few post with guys complaining that they have toasted their thrust bearings. I doubt it could be the clutch mod in the FAQ as that does not deal with the bearing or the tollerences or gaps with the clutch.

I will ask this same question on myTSN and see what the outcome is as this is a little worrysome to me, but I feel it may have something to do with the setup, What are your views guys and gals (if there are any... Hi )
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:57 AM   #7100
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I agree. I am sure you should only need to replace the thrust bearing when you replace all the bearings in the clutch. Have you done the clutch mod?
I didnt do the clutch mod but I did replace my bearings since it wasnt smooth and felt grindy. My thrust bearings were fine but some how the centax-3 clutch housing and clutch shoe-XP was a bit warped. Luckily I had a second kit as parts but I still bought a newer clutch housing (part 802502) which has more holes for better ventilation.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:02 AM   #7101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmaris Europe
The length of time they last varies with several key things. They require greasing constantly to keep the dirt out. We actually take them out between every 5min qualifier and regrease.

The other thing that would blow one after a days running is that the clutch is not shimmed correct. Bad set up of the clutch will have you sticking in new thrust bearings every other run. Make sure the external shims are correct to minimise the amount of wobble on the bell.
Good tip Palmaris, I think I'll be lubbing it very often (Just a small touch of grease) until I get the right feel of it.

For the record: I don't have the clutch mod and my shimms were on the loose side... I think I'll set it up a little tighter - closer to .4mm -

I didn't have a spare and bought a mugen bearing at the track. It looks the same
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:09 AM   #7102
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I think I agree with you, but I am not sure what you mean, did you mean that it is the mod that seems to be causing it?

Mark and Dee, what is your input in the matter, could it be an incorrectly modded clutch although I dont thing it would be the mod, maybe the spacer difference, like instead of the 0.7mm, having a 0.4mm gap? tell me, with the 0.7mm gap the clutch tends to slip and engage VERY late, how about turning the clutch nut out, will this not correct this problem? I know it has been asked many times, but the reason I am bringing it up is because I have seen a few post with guys complaining that they have toasted their thrust bearings. I doubt it could be the clutch mod in the FAQ as that does not deal with the bearing or the tollerences or gaps with the clutch.

I will ask this same question on myTSN and see what the outcome is as this is a little worrysome to me, but I feel it may have something to do with the setup, What are your views guys and gals (if there are any... Hi )
As far as I know about the clutch thing is that to make sure part 802501(centax-3 clutch housing) and part 802508(centax-3 clutch shoe XP) are as close as possible without touching even when pushed together firmly. Put M11 shims(pictured in step 8.7) for it not to touch but as close as possible so when the clutch engages it doesnt need open up as much to get in contact with the clutch shoe. That is what I was told how it should be adjusted. For the thrust bearings they told me to tighten it and not make it too tight as it might damage the thrust bearings. No need to tighten it too much. Mine seems to have about .4mm of play but im not sure since I dont have an digital caliper that measures .4 Need one soon though. So right now I just know how much play it needs when pushed back and forth by feeling it.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:09 AM   #7103
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I think I agree with you, but I am not sure what you mean, did you mean that it is the mod that seems to be causing it?

Mark and Dee, what is your input in the matter, could it be an incorrectly modded clutch although I dont thing it would be the mod, maybe the spacer difference, like instead of the 0.7mm, having a 0.4mm gap? tell me, with the 0.7mm gap the clutch tends to slip and engage VERY late, how about turning the clutch nut out, will this not correct this problem?
Adjusting the nut out doesnt cure the problem. All that you are doing is reducing the tension on the spring so the clutch engages earlier in the powerband. But you will still get the same amount of slip regardless.

However, with the 0.7mm gap the bell has a lot of play and like you say the clutch does tend to slip a lot. What this does is toast the clutch shoe and the weights (Makes them harder and smoother on the outer surface). We noticed once this happens that the clutch is effectively not performing to the optimum as it doesnt grip the same. With a standard clutch we would just roughen the bell housing with emery paper but with a Centax this seems to just make the matter worse.

Reducing the gap to 0.3-0.4mm reduces the amount of slip and lengthens the lifespan of both the weights and clutch shoe but also stops the amount of wobble that can occur in the bell housing so the thrust bearing is not getting the same abuse.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:10 AM   #7104
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Quote:
Originally posted by cox049
Good tip Palmaris, I think I'll be lubbing it very often (Just a small touch of grease) until I get the right feel of it.

For the record: I don't have the clutch mod and my shimms were on the loose side... I think I'll set it up a little tighter - closer to .4mm -

I didn't have a spare and bought a mugen bearing at the track. It looks the same
Hi cox, It looks the same, but ... IT IS MUGEN Only joking, if it fits and works, I am sure it will be ok for now, but I suggest running the serpent bearing. GOOD LUCK.

Quote:
Originally posted by cyba888
I didnt do the clutch mod but I did replace my bearings since it wasnt smooth and felt grindy. My thrust bearings were fine but some how the centax-3 clutch housing and clutch shoe-XP was a bit warped. Luckily I had a second kit as parts but I still bought a newer clutch housing (part 802502) which has more holes for better ventilation.
I also bought the option clutch housing, but I hope that all is well when I get the kit as it is a little difficult sending the stuff back to hong kong if there is a problem.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:11 AM   #7105
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What kind of calipers do you guys use and how much did you pay for it? Any good prices online?
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:11 AM   #7106
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
I think I agree with you, but I am not sure what you mean, did you mean that it is the mod that seems to be causing it?

Mark and Dee, what is your input in the matter, could it be an incorrectly modded clutch although I dont thing it would be the mod, maybe the spacer difference, like instead of the 0.7mm, having a 0.4mm gap? tell me, with the 0.7mm gap the clutch tends to slip and engage VERY late, how about turning the clutch nut out, will this not correct this problem? I know it has been asked many times, but the reason I am bringing it up is because I have seen a few post with guys complaining that they have toasted their thrust bearings. I doubt it could be the clutch mod in the FAQ as that does not deal with the bearing or the tollerences or gaps with the clutch.

I will ask this same question on myTSN and see what the outcome is as this is a little worrysome to me, but I feel it may have something to do with the setup, What are your views guys and gals (if there are any... Hi )

People tend to break the thrust bearing from time to time. Almost everytime it's due to:
- Not greasing it regularly. Once every 30 minutes at least or more often if you run on dirty tracks or your car sees grass often.
- Improper intallation (the ring with large inner diameter goes towards the flywheel)
- Bad setup of the end play. The clutch gap (between 0.4 and 0.8mm has not a lot to do with it. But the final amount of movement the clutch housing has does. The housing should hava about 0.2-0.3mm play after everything is installed.)
- modifying the clutch weights can cause problems. Especially if the weights are not all exacly the same they will lead to improper engagement and wobbeling of the clutch shoe. That leads to the bearing failure.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:16 AM   #7107
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmaris Europe
Adjusting the nut out doesnt cure the problem. All that you are doing is reducing the tension on the spring so the clutch engages earlier in the powerband. But you will still get the same amount of slip regardless.

However, with the 0.7mm gap the bell has a lot of play and like you say the clutch does tend to slip a lot. What this does is toast the clutch shoe and the weights (Makes them harder and smoother on the outer surface). We noticed once this happens that the clutch is effectively not performing to the optimum as it doesnt grip the same. With a standard clutch we would just roughen the bell housing with emery paper but with a Centax this seems to just make the matter worse.

Reducing the gap to 0.3-0.4mm reduces the amount of slip and lengthens the lifespan of both the weights and clutch shoe but also stops the amount of wobble that can occur in the bell housing so the thrust bearing is not getting the same abuse.
AHH, thank you, this makes a lot more sense. THANK YOU. I hope my kit arrives soon, so I dont need to picture the whole thing. Thank you again modellor... oh, sorry... Palmaris...
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:18 AM   #7108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
People tend to break the thrust bearing from time to time. Almost everytime it's due to:
- Not greasing it regularly. Once every 30 minutes at least or more often if you run on dirty tracks or your car sees grass often.
- Improper intallation (the ring with large inner diameter goes towards the flywheel)
- Bad setup of the end play. The clutch gap (between 0.4 and 0.8mm has not a lot to do with it. But the final amount of movement the clutch housing has does. The housing should hava about 0.2-0.3mm play after everything is installed.)
- modifying the clutch weights can cause problems. Especially if the weights are not all exacly the same they will lead to improper engagement and wobbeling of the clutch shoe. That leads to the bearing failure.
Thank you Julius, you beat me to it.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:21 AM   #7109
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
... gals (if there are any... Hi )
BaxterC... You Suck...

Oh, this is me
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:21 AM   #7110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
- modifying the clutch weights can cause problems. Especially if the weights are not all exacly the same they will lead to improper engagement and wobbeling of the clutch shoe. That leads to the bearing failure.
BaxterC... you should have ask Julius instead of me then

But it always take THE man for you to follow.. I'm really wonder if now D also agree

Last edited by Pyramid; 03-29-2004 at 08:27 AM.
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