Serpent 710
12-10-2003 | 04:18 PM
#1561
Tech Prophet
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 19,679
From: MORDOR
Re: Lower Internal Ratio Better for Acceleration?
CraigH, I posted this back the last page.
Originally posted by InitialD
Something that makes interesting reading at the thread at the Electric forum which applies for gas powered cars also. Of particular interest is seaball's post which is in line with what the guys at Serpent are trying to drive at with regards to the low internal ratio of the 710 and the complaints that they have been receiving;
from a physics and theoretical standpoint, the lower ratio should increase overall accelleration based on the fact that the layshaft, in either case, will be rotating less due to the lower internal ratio to produce the same overal vehicle speed.
the importance here is that kinetic energy is a linear function of rotating mass, and a squared function of rotating speed. therefore, the intent with the lower ratio is to minimize the amount of kinetic energy required to accelerate the drivetrain to it's maximum speed.
another benefit of the lower ratio for belt cars comes with the increase in layshaft pulley size that is needed to acheive this lower ratio. this results in a more effecient drivetrain, since the belt won't have to form such a small radius through the wrapping of the layshaft pulley. additionally, the belt can be run even more loosely since it will have more teeth to contact it to prevent what is known as "ratcheting" or skipping of the belt under loads.
realistically, it may be insignificant, because the pulley mass increases due to its larger size, the spur usually needs to increase to get the external ratio high enough to maintain the same FDR.
there are always design compromises that will be made, but i do believe the intent of a low internal ratio is to gain a better spool up time through minimizing the KE required.
I believe on gas cars, it is even more paramount that the drive train rotates less times seeing how many parts rotate.
Something that makes interesting reading at the thread at the Electric forum which applies for gas powered cars also. Of particular interest is seaball's post which is in line with what the guys at Serpent are trying to drive at with regards to the low internal ratio of the 710 and the complaints that they have been receiving;
from a physics and theoretical standpoint, the lower ratio should increase overall accelleration based on the fact that the layshaft, in either case, will be rotating less due to the lower internal ratio to produce the same overal vehicle speed.
the importance here is that kinetic energy is a linear function of rotating mass, and a squared function of rotating speed. therefore, the intent with the lower ratio is to minimize the amount of kinetic energy required to accelerate the drivetrain to it's maximum speed.
another benefit of the lower ratio for belt cars comes with the increase in layshaft pulley size that is needed to acheive this lower ratio. this results in a more effecient drivetrain, since the belt won't have to form such a small radius through the wrapping of the layshaft pulley. additionally, the belt can be run even more loosely since it will have more teeth to contact it to prevent what is known as "ratcheting" or skipping of the belt under loads.
realistically, it may be insignificant, because the pulley mass increases due to its larger size, the spur usually needs to increase to get the external ratio high enough to maintain the same FDR.
there are always design compromises that will be made, but i do believe the intent of a low internal ratio is to gain a better spool up time through minimizing the KE required.
I believe on gas cars, it is even more paramount that the drive train rotates less times seeing how many parts rotate.
12-10-2003 | 10:05 PM
#1563
Tech Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 467
Originally posted by oldcake
A word of age old advise...
maybe just maybe you should just shut up and drive more then be stupid.!
A word of age old advise...
maybe just maybe you should just shut up and drive more then be stupid.!
12-11-2003 | 01:24 AM
#1564
Tech Adept
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 227
From: UK
Originally posted by fmolzer
Me thinks forums is for discussions about cars, tracks are for driving. Me thinks maybe you need to consider that old advise is not always good advise. If the info discussed here bores you, skip to the next forum....
Me thinks forums is for discussions about cars, tracks are for driving. Me thinks maybe you need to consider that old advise is not always good advise. If the info discussed here bores you, skip to the next forum....
12-11-2003 | 01:49 AM
#1565
Tech Rookie
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11
From: US
Originally posted by fmolzer
Me thinks forums is for discussions about cars, tracks are for driving. Me thinks maybe you need to consider that old advise is not always good advise. If the info discussed here bores you, skip to the next forum....
Me thinks forums is for discussions about cars, tracks are for driving. Me thinks maybe you need to consider that old advise is not always good advise. If the info discussed here bores you, skip to the next forum....
I always say action speaks louder then words.
12-11-2003 | 01:56 AM
#1566
Tech Prophet
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 19,679
From: MORDOR
Originally posted by oldcake
His info actually interest me alot. With his knowledge I'm sure he could do much better on the tracks then racing in the forums!
His info actually interest me alot. With his knowledge I'm sure he could do much better on the tracks then racing in the forums!
Can't you see all that smoke and action?
Good luck to you. I hope by you being more silent here, you do well on the tracks which I can only wish and dream about !
12-11-2003 | 10:20 AM
#1569
Tech Rookie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7
From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
It's here!
My very own 710 kit arrived in the mail this afternoon. Thanks to the guys at The Border!
First difficulty; the hingepins are all in one bag and in 4 sizes, 3 of which are very similar. You'll have to take notice not to use the wrong ones... It's not made clear in the manual. Nothing that holding them next to the suspension mounts can't fix though.
I've only just finished the front section but I know by now Serpent has done an awesome job on this car.
Well, back to work!
First difficulty; the hingepins are all in one bag and in 4 sizes, 3 of which are very similar. You'll have to take notice not to use the wrong ones... It's not made clear in the manual. Nothing that holding them next to the suspension mounts can't fix though.
I've only just finished the front section but I know by now Serpent has done an awesome job on this car.
Well, back to work!
12-11-2003 | 10:43 AM
#1570
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 826
Re: It's here!
Originally posted by RaceDude
My very own 710 kit arrived in the mail this afternoon. Thanks to the guys at The Border!
First difficulty; the hingepins are all in one bag and in 4 sizes, 3 of which are very similar. You'll have to take notice not to use the wrong ones... It's not made clear in the manual. Nothing that holding them next to the suspension mounts can't fix though.
I've only just finished the front section but I know by now Serpent has done an awesome job on this car.
Well, back to work!
My very own 710 kit arrived in the mail this afternoon. Thanks to the guys at The Border!
First difficulty; the hingepins are all in one bag and in 4 sizes, 3 of which are very similar. You'll have to take notice not to use the wrong ones... It's not made clear in the manual. Nothing that holding them next to the suspension mounts can't fix though.
I've only just finished the front section but I know by now Serpent has done an awesome job on this car.
Well, back to work!
12-11-2003 | 01:33 PM
#1572
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,295
From: Chicago Illinois USA
One thing I know about Serpent is.......good to perfect customer support, I remembered back when I was building my Impulse PRO. there were 2 broken parts and 2 missing parts, send them a email and got the parts in 3 days.........that can't be beat.
However, I wish they can do a better job packaging....I remembered 2 of my friend brought the PRO with me, both with missing and broken parts....but I am sure it won't happened on 710 now....I hope.
The 710 on ebay is from Neitherland....probably the first place in this world to get 710 before the Serpent crew....
However, I wish they can do a better job packaging....I remembered 2 of my friend brought the PRO with me, both with missing and broken parts....but I am sure it won't happened on 710 now....I hope.
The 710 on ebay is from Neitherland....probably the first place in this world to get 710 before the Serpent crew....
12-11-2003 | 02:31 PM
#1574
Tech Rookie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7
From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Originally posted by fmolzer
I can't believe it, kits are in racers hands, and what am I doing?
I can't believe it, kits are in racers hands, and what am I doing?
HEHEH cruel isn't it...
Anyway... I found that Serpent has included two centax3 pinion tools, one for 1st and one for 2nd gear pinions.
They also polished the balldiff outdrive where the external adjuster ring sits on so that saves some work. And the rubber ring that holds the adjuster in place... really tight.
I'll have to call in sick for work tomorrow...
12-11-2003 | 03:00 PM
#1575
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,219
From: TEXAS. USA
Awesome!!
The 710 are right on schedule on shipment date. {Actual they are 10 days ahead of release date!!} Now some of the lucky ones have some in their hands I sure hope they share their thoughts and experience on building and what they think of the car. Also I love the new packaging box........ORANGE!!
http://www.mytsn.com/news/publ.asp?pid=9383
Wow!
I have to disagree with you on this one Rookie. What other Mfg. except X-ray (hehehe) has all the suspension, chassis and miscellaneous parts in their own bag and in three sprats boxes. Also I never heard of any missing parts or broken parts in a new Kit!! Anyway, this might have been the case and like you said that Serpent Customer Service is a step above anyone else!!
The 710 are right on schedule on shipment date. {Actual they are 10 days ahead of release date!!} Now some of the lucky ones have some in their hands I sure hope they share their thoughts and experience on building and what they think of the car. Also I love the new packaging box........ORANGE!!
http://www.mytsn.com/news/publ.asp?pid=9383
One thing I know about Serpent is.......good to perfect customer support, I remembered back when I was building my Impulse PRO. there were 2 broken parts and 2 missing parts, send them a email and got the parts in 3 days.........that can't be beat.
Wow!
I have to disagree with you on this one Rookie. What other Mfg. except X-ray (hehehe) has all the suspension, chassis and miscellaneous parts in their own bag and in three sprats boxes. Also I never heard of any missing parts or broken parts in a new Kit!! Anyway, this might have been the case and like you said that Serpent Customer Service is a step above anyone else!!