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-   -   Spektrum (https://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/63411-spektrum.html)

Potato 05-23-2006 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by r0adrunn3r
What about the time it takes the 3PK to talk to the Spektrum Tx module... I thought there was a delay associated with that too? Maybe that has been reduced too with the Pro series...

I don't believe there's anyway to modify the latency between the 3pk (or other transmitter) and the TX module without actually modifying the transmitter itself. Thus the only area for change is the Spektrum module itself. It's like if you were talking to someone on the phone. If the guy on other end is slow, say it takes 1 second for him to respond, there's nothing you (Spektrum) can do about it. You can only be as fast as possible on your end, but the guy on the other end will always be slow - so effectively the guy on the other end is a constant. I understand that Futaba has a regular and a HRS mode, which I believe would basically make "the guy on the other end of the phone" respond faster. Regardless, the differences quoted by Spektrum even for the HRS are in the range of 2-5 ms, not in the tens or hundreds of milliseconds. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something else?

r0adrunn3r 05-23-2006 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by Potato
I don't believe there's anyway to modify the latency between the 3pk (or other transmitter) and the TX module without actually modifying the transmitter itself. Thus the only area for change is the Spektrum module itself. It's like if you were talking to someone on the phone. If the guy on other end is slow, say it takes 1 second for him to respond, there's nothing you (Spektrum) can do about it. You can only be as fast as possible on your end, but the guy on the other end will always be slow - so effectively the guy on the other end is a constant. I understand that Futaba has a regular and a HRS mode, which I believe would basically make "the guy on the other end of the phone" respond faster. Regardless, the differences quoted by Spektrum even for the HRS are in the range of 2-5 ms, not in the tens or hundreds of milliseconds. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something else?

I just remember on the Nimble site :blush: that there is a 16ms decode between the 3PK and module... Maybe this has been reduced.

2-Bad 05-23-2006 07:54 PM

Also, on the old receiver modules you were allowed (by Spektrum) to shorten the aerial wire down to 3.6” without any noticeable loss in reception. Can you shorten the receiver aerials in the PRO and Micro receivers as well?

twoo 05-23-2006 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by Potato
I don't believe there's anyway to modify the latency between the 3pk (or other transmitter) and the TX module without actually modifying the transmitter itself. Thus the only area for change is the Spektrum module itself. It's like if you were talking to someone on the phone. If the guy on other end is slow, say it takes 1 second for him to respond, there's nothing you (Spektrum) can do about it. You can only be as fast as possible on your end, but the guy on the other end will always be slow - so effectively the guy on the other end is a constant. I understand that Futaba has a regular and a HRS mode, which I believe would basically make "the guy on the other end of the phone" respond faster. Regardless, the differences quoted by Spektrum even for the HRS are in the range of 2-5 ms, not in the tens or hundreds of milliseconds. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something else?

Yes you can cut latancy down by 2-5ms. Radio wave travel at the speed of light, in a vaccum is 299,792,458 meters per sec! The raw transmission part between radio and your car (lets say 100m) is .04nano sec! The rest of the time is spend on encoding on radio and decoding on receiver.

r0adrunn3r 05-23-2006 08:46 PM

Here is a quote from the Spektrum site about the Pro series

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...ProdID=SPM1011

"While the original system adds just 5.6 milliseconds (that’s 5.6 thousandths of a second), to your radio’s own processing time, the new Pro System’s module and receiver combine to lower this already miniscule figure to a scant 3.0 milliseconds. It all adds up to lightning fast response and it’s sure to have racers feeling more connected than ever."

So the latency would be 16ms for the radio decode + 3ms for the Pro Series... is it worth it???


Originally Posted by Potato
I don't believe there's anyway to modify the latency between the 3pk (or other transmitter) and the TX module without actually modifying the transmitter itself. Thus the only area for change is the Spektrum module itself. It's like if you were talking to someone on the phone. If the guy on other end is slow, say it takes 1 second for him to respond, there's nothing you (Spektrum) can do about it. You can only be as fast as possible on your end, but the guy on the other end will always be slow - so effectively the guy on the other end is a constant. I understand that Futaba has a regular and a HRS mode, which I believe would basically make "the guy on the other end of the phone" respond faster. Regardless, the differences quoted by Spektrum even for the HRS are in the range of 2-5 ms, not in the tens or hundreds of milliseconds. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something else?


twoo 05-23-2006 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by r0adrunn3r
So the latency would be 16ms for the radio decode + 3ms for the Pro Series... is it worth it???

Exactly, that is the latancy added by spektrum. I would think involves encoding and decoding plus other stuff. If you are switching to it now, for sure Pro will be better. Is it worth tossing the old spektrum and switch... it is a question we all have to ask ourself.

Bare in mind that everything to do with RC cars, the more money you spend the less incremental performance increase you will get.

au_Nightmare 05-23-2006 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by Potato
Wow you guys can feel a 2.6 millisecond (5.6-3) difference?? ............Any ideas what else could be attributed to this supposed lag? For some reason I find this really interesting.

IMO A caffine boost would do more :) lol

dodgeguy 05-24-2006 12:01 AM


Originally Posted by Potato
Wow you guys can feel a 2.6 millisecond (5.6-3) difference?? Just to give an idea, average human reaction time is 200-350 milliseconds! That means, when you see something and click a button the instant you see it, it takes nearly 200-350 milliseconds from your eyes seeing it, your brain processing it, to your finger actually moving. That's nearly 100 times greater than the difference in pro and original spektrum models! 2.6 milliseconds is 0.0026 seconds - a good CRT monitor flashes at 75 Hz, which is 0.0133 secs per image, or 5 times longer than the difference between spektrum models. Note that to our eyes the image displayed by the monitor appears continuous, so I find it really surprising that someone can sense a 2.6ms difference.

Could this be some placebo effect? Maybe there's some other difference in the pro and original models that Spektrum has not mentioned. Any ideas what else could be attributed to this supposed lag? For some reason I find this really interesting.

Very good point. I really do not believe we are able to tell a difference in the speed at all. I think it may have more to do with the spectrum receiver output to the servo. Has anyone thought about how many amps the spectrum reciever can allow to the servo? That right there would make a difference if the new receiver has a higher output.

r0adrunn3r 05-24-2006 01:48 AM

Out of interest what is the total latency of their DX2 and DX3 systems?

Turbo Joe 05-24-2006 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by dodgeguy
Very good point. I really do not believe we are able to tell a difference in the speed at all. I think it may have more to do with the spectrum receiver output to the servo. Has anyone thought about how many amps the spectrum reciever can allow to the servo? That right there would make a difference if the new receiver has a higher output.

It doesn't work like that. The + and - that feed the servos isn't supplied by the reciever, it comes from the battery (nitro) or ESC (electric). The reciever is essentially a voltage "distribution box" or splitter, but it doesn't regulate the supply in any way.

dodgeguy 05-24-2006 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
It doesn't work like that. The + and - that feed the servos isn't supplied by the reciever, it comes from the battery (nitro) or ESC (electric). The reciever is essentially a voltage "distribution box" or splitter, but it doesn't regulate the supply in any way.

Then why does some receivers have a 2amp or 3amp bec? (able to handle)

caveman 05-24-2006 11:47 AM

receivers do not have BEC, speed controlers do.

BSOD 05-24-2006 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
The reciever is essentially a voltage "distribution box" or splitter, but it doesn't regulate the supply in any way.

You can say that again - it just feeds the servos connected to it. But it does take some supply for itself.

That is why some people had problems with their Spektrum shutting down - they run a power capacitor on the receiver to ensure a consistant voltage to it (a 10v 4700uF Cap I believe - is an option to purchase)

RCGaryK 05-24-2006 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by BSOD
You can say that again - it just feeds the servos connected to it. But it does take some supply for itself.

That is why some people had problems with their Spektrum shutting down - they run a power capacitor on the receiver to ensure a consistant voltage to it (a 10v 4700uF Cap I believe - is an option to purchase)

The shutdown issue that you're referring to was actually an ESD (Electrostatic discharge) issue. The new software for the original SR3000 receivers and the software on the Pro Series/Micro SR3500 has corrected that issue. The cap is used in low-voltage situations, such as in Mini's and Micro's or 1/12th scale. Some ESC's did not have a high enough output on the BEC; the Voltage Protector (SPM1600) rectified that issue. I also believe that the SR3500 Micro Receiver also has a lower minimum required operating voltage, making it a better fit too for 1/12th and Mini/Micro cars.

PitCrew 05-24-2006 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by dodgeguy
Very good point. I really do not believe we are able to tell a difference in the speed at all. I think it may have more to do with the spectrum receiver output to the servo. Has anyone thought about how many amps the spectrum reciever can allow to the servo? That right there would make a difference if the new receiver has a higher output.

As others have stated, the receiver does NOT put out any power.

The plug from the ESC delivers the power to the receiver. The positive and negative connectors inside the receiver are common to eachother. They are connected all right there. The power to the servo comes directly from the ESC. It only goes .1" from the esc plug in the receiver to the servo plug.

The only energy converted by the receiver is the signal sent to the servo to tell it where to move. This energy too comes from the BEC circuit from the ESC. And with spektrum, it has a bit higher energy consumption because of two way communication.

Thus in some lower voltage applications, or for those people who use the Quantum series of speed controlls, the BEC output of those speedos was in many cases not enough to power the receiver, or keep it turned on anyway.

I used a cap for awhile with good results, but made up a 6v regulated output device to power only the servo. I know its getting 6 volts now, and it was noticable faster than with the 5 volts being supplied by the BEC. AND, I don't have to run the capacitor because the only BEC current being used by the receiver only goes to keeping it turned on, and to power my personal transponder.


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