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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 10-27-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSherman
...only thing i can think of is have an all in one class.. Similar to LeMans.. SilverCan (voodoo allowed) and Brushless 17.5 (no boost and/or no timing) race in the same class... see who reigns supreme...
Funny you should mention that. We're allowing silver cans to run with the BL minis, but made a rule stating that if you're running silver can, no matter how fast you qualify, you run C main or lower. We know the tuner cans are faster. We spec'd a slower BL system to get mini speeds back under control. When a mini is running within 1s/lap of stock touring, something's wrong.

Silver can voodoo damn near killed our mini class by discouraging those who don't have the budget or who haven't been told all the secrets. Short of that, it just started a lot of fights. People weren't even hiding the fact they were running tweaked motors, even though it was against the rules. The clubs never had the time/resources to do proper tech and if you even mentioned hand out motors around here your ears and your inbox would be full in less than 5 minutes.

As it is now, there's a blinking light on the ESC to tell you it's in zero timing and if you come out of a corner beside a guy at the same speed and he leaps ahead of you on the straight, all else being equal, there's something fishy going on and we know who to tech.

Jim
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
Funny you should mention that. We're allowing silver cans to run with the BL minis, but made a rule stating that if you're running silver can, no matter how fast you qualify, you run C main or lower. We know the tuner cans are faster. We spec'd a slower BL system to get mini speeds back under control. When a mini is running within 1s/lap of stock touring, something's wrong.

Silver can voodoo damn near killed our mini class by discouraging those who don't have the budget or who haven't been told all the secrets. Short of that, it just started a lot of fights. People weren't even hiding the fact they were running tweaked motors, even though it was against the rules. The clubs never had the time/resources to do proper tech and if you even mentioned hand out motors around here your ears and your inbox would be full in less than 5 minutes.

As it is now, there's a blinking light on the ESC to tell you it's in zero timing and if you come out of a corner beside a guy at the same speed and he leaps ahead of you on the straight, all else being equal, there's something fishy going on and we know who to tech.

Jim
Interesting that you would tech brushless motors, but not the silver cans. I remember telling you that "hot" Cans would blow up your series in several PMs. Also remember suggesting a realistic rpm limit and a means of testing them.

Frankly, the method you chose to get around all the BS was probably the "best" method as this is what the Aussies have chosen to do for their very successful program. However, the esc and motor you have chosen for your series just isn't fast enough for the majority of us who run larger tracks, run on asphalt, and whose tracks are outdoors.

Also, settling on just one motor and esc even if it's just for Minis is a lot more complex than most would believe. Just the relationships that Tamiya has with other manufacturers and vendors is enough to "muddy" the waters quite a bit.

I can't even begin to imagine the howls of protest if you told the TCS racers that you would allow them to run a Can, but you could not run higher than a "C" main. That's just saying if you don't do what I want you're just screwed.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:01 PM
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Oh, there has been howling and there has been cheering. It's the quiet ones you have to worry about.

Please understand, G, that I mean no disrespect to you or Doc or anyone else. I've tuned a few motors, I've purchased a few motors and I even found a few that would get by all but the most educated eyes and run circles around a tuned can. I simply have a strong belief that it's time to move away from the 50 year old blow dryer motors.

On another note, I actually ran a silver can in a mini for the first time in months this past Sunday. Oh, how I miss that smooth torque curve!

Jim
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:07 PM
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Blah blah blah... Let's have fun next weekend!!!

P.s. anybody know how to make an mexican flatliner... For the next round.

Last edited by rtypec; 10-28-2011 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Interesting that you would tech brushless motors, but not the silver cans. I remember telling you that "hot" Cans would blow up your series in several PMs. Also remember suggesting a realistic rpm limit and a means of testing them.
Brings me back to what Tamiya has done and how it DOES work!
Don't blame the silver cans if there is no care to tech at local events!
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:25 PM
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So...you want to volunteer to tech 30+ minis for 2 different clubs every Friday and Saturday? That's the problem. It's every week, Friday and Saturday. Who would volunteer to tech all that after working all week? This just takes one more thing out of the no-fun equation.

Enough of this drivel. This is the TCS thread and it should probably get back on track. This is Tamiya's house and I've got my own to deal with.

Last edited by monkeyracing; 10-27-2011 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:20 AM
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Sorry to stir the pot on the brushless mini thing.

Just a thought, but the faster racers will probably find a way to go fast regardless of the rules.... I doubt switching from one motor to the next or having spec tires or spec bodies or allowing wings/no wings is going to make much difference in the outcome.

Just comes down to how much $$$ and time is spent at the track. Tamiya has done a reasonably good job over the years at keeping the $$$ down as much as possible.
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:47 AM
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Hey, this drivel IS TCS business and IS right on track ... and nice to hear from so many lately. It has been awfully quiet here for awhile.
I'm all for this brushless stuff (except the cheap fixed-timing motor bit, but I'm flexible). Of course the faster guys will figure out how to be faster. That's what they do! But the playing field will be a lot flatter for most of us, and requires a lot less work too (in case you hadn't noticed, this can be a very time-consuming hobby). Let Fred work out the details, but I'm another vote for BL!
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rtypec
Blah blah blah... Let's have fun next weekend!!!

P.s. anybody know how to make an mexican flatliner... For the next round.
Uhmmmm, how to make a what?!?!
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:11 PM
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Talking BRUSHLESSS!!!!!!!!!!!! WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by OSherman
FWD (1/10) Cars with HUGE option rear wings is a cop-out in my opinion.. Learn to setup a chassis. it can be done, it has been done, lets keep doing it. Throwing a wing at a chassis to make it handle better is like installing Gyros. I hear the comment that wings allow for closer racing and rubbing, true.. but rubbing leads to something else..

the mini class has been doing it all this time with no huge wings, far less suspension tuning options and inferior tire selection (grip), uhmmm what am i missing?


$0.02
Your missing my point, we don't want all Integras or Scirocco's or whatever body works best with the stock wing. Having a large variety of bodies in any class is very cool.
With the Tamiya option wing you can spend more time learning set-up an less money trying different bodies and finding a set-up for each one and then decide which one you like best, again back to the most popular body! More wing creates a more stable car which banging fenders won't disrupt the car while racing. With no wing the slightest tap could send you spinning. Come on we had a blast last weekend diceing it out and we were all very equal in speed and handling and we were all using option wing.

As far as using brushless well I think all of you know where I stand on that but the only reason were not using a Tamiya system wasn't because of 2.4 frequency, that was their non-sensored systems, the newer sensored systems had no issues.
After talking to Fred, he didn't want Tamiya to get into issues with warranty on ESC's, BL motors etc, etc, this would cause delays with TCS races and Tamiya would have to maintain a larger inventory of enough motors and ESC's to cover any issues of reliabilities.
I saw Andrew running a 16t BL Tamiya motor and it ran very well with other motors.I wouldn't have minded using their systems.
I think Fred rather let the aftermarket companies deal with customer service and warranty issues!
Just my 2$
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by maxepower
Your missing my point, we don't want all Integras or Scirocco's or whatever body works best with the stock wing. Having a large variety of bodies in any class is very cool.
With the Tamiya option wing you can spend more time learning set-up an less money trying different bodies and finding a set-up for each one and then decide which one you like best, again back to the most popular body! More wing creates a more stable car which banging fenders won't disrupt the car while racing. With no wing the slightest tap could send you spinning. Come on we had a blast last weekend diceing it out and we were all very equal in speed and handling and we were all using option wing.

As far as using brushless well I think all of you know where I stand on that but the only reason were not using a Tamiya system wasn't because of 2.4 frequency, that was their non-sensored systems, the newer sensored systems had no issues.
After talking to Fred, he didn't want Tamiya to get into issues with warranty on ESC's, BL motors etc, etc, this would cause delays with TCS races and Tamiya would have to maintain a larger inventory of enough motors and ESC's to cover any issues of reliabilities.
I saw Andrew running a 16t BL Tamiya motor and it ran very well with other motors.I wouldn't have minded using their systems.
I think Fred rather let the aftermarket companies deal with customer service and warranty issues!
Just my 2$
I ran the same body in FF03 all year, with stock wing and was very happy and it was not an Integra. If we switch from silver can to brushless, we can actually have brakes in the FF03's and I think that will help reduce the bump and runs. Silver cans in FF03 was like running a 1-way. Misjudge a little on your braking and not matter how hard you wanted to miss the guy in front, the "chrome horn" took it's toll. I like the idea of brushless and kit wings on FF bodies only.
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:06 PM
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This FWD wing thing is curious. If big wings are allowed, then they just look like another TC class, and what's the point? Restrict to FWD bodies with kit plastic wings, and Max's fear that one particular body will predominate will probably happen, which is completely boring.
So how about no wings at all. NO wings allowed. I'll bet many bodies will perform OK (or at least equally)...but Orando's InBox is going to full of hits about getting wingless to work. He claims he knows how
Have you ever heard of an RC racing class with NO wings??
Oh, Mini...
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:43 PM
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Cool THE ADVENTURES OF Wing vs. No Wing

Thanks Craig,
My point exactly mini class, what's the predominant body Suzuki Swift and mini cooper. Boring!
Mini's can band doors with each other and still keep it under control, FF03's just spin out, maybe because too much weight is in the front of too little is in the back but that's the fact Jack!
Hey, I know how about we don't run any bodies and see who can come up with the best set-up,not using any body!
Yes, open wheel I can see it now,.....drivers, on the sound of the tone....... beep, here they go everybody coming around the sweeper to the first turn and then all of a sudden, BANG! cars flying everywhere with tire to tire contact.
Way to go Orlando and Kevin! You're in first and second so you missed all the carnage or did you? That split second when you thought you were free and clear the one car that got airborne flew over all the cars and hit yours and now you've both gone from first to last!
Moral to that story is lets stop trying to limit all the Tamiya options and open it up to what they make available to the racer! Option wings have been used for years, why stop using them now because there is FWD class? Makes no sense to me!
Just my 2$
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by maxepower
Thanks Craig,
My point exactly mini class, what's the predominant body Suzuki Swift and mini cooper. Boring!
Mini's can band doors with each other and still keep it under control, FF03's just spin out, maybe because too much weight is in the front of too little is in the back but that's the fact Jack!
Hey, I know how about we don't run any bodies and see who can come up with the best set-up,not using any body!
Yes, open wheel I can see it now,.....drivers, on the sound of the tone....... beep, here they go everybody coming around the sweeper to the first turn and then all of a sudden, BANG! cars flying everywhere with tire to tire contact.
Way to go Orlando and Kevin! You're in first and second so you missed all the carnage or did you? That split second when you thought you were free and clear the one car that got airborne flew over all the cars and hit yours and now you've both gone from first to last!
Moral to that story is lets stop trying to limit all the Tamiya options and open it up to what they make available to the racer! Option wings have been used for years, why stop using them now because there is FWD class? Makes no sense to me!
Just my 2$
I'm still with Orlando on this one. Just say NO to Lexan wings in FF03. Plus, I seem to remember my "non-Integra" body being pretty competitive. Is the Integra really "all that AND a bag of chips" ? Or, is it just a perception the Integra is the all conquering body ? All interesting ideas to ponder.

For now, I will just enjoy running my 9.5T brushless with boosted Tekin at the open race this Saturday at the Tamiya track. Humm, maybe GT-1 should go back to the good 'ol days and be open mod again ? At least no one could complain someone had the better esc or motor of the week. It would be about who had the best skill to drive the most power. What a novel idea.

Panda
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I'm still with Orlando on this one. Just say NO to Lexan wings in FF03. Plus, I seem to remember my "non-Integra" body being pretty competitive. Is the Integra really "all that AND a bag of chips" ? Or, is it just a perception the Integra is the all conquering body ? All interesting ideas to ponder.

For now, I will just enjoy running my 9.5T brushless with boosted Tekin at the open race this Saturday at the Tamiya track. Humm, maybe GT-1 should go back to the good 'ol days and be open mod again ? At least no one could complain someone had the better esc or motor of the week. It would be about who had the best skill to drive the most power. What a novel idea.

Panda
That's right and you could avoid all the BL complexities. Just trying to find a 17.5 system to install in a Mini has been difficult. Unlike some people, I operate on a fairly limited budget and don't want to buy several different systems.

Out of curiosity, how many different motors and esc's is the average TCS racer purchased????? How many motors and esc's have they "fried" or turned into junk?????
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