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Tamiya Championship Series

Old 10-26-2011, 05:16 PM
  #16246  
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Originally Posted by ewippler
Brushless mini is just stupid, especially with 17.5. Too much torque, too little grip and ultra flexable chassis. Mini should not run down an F1 car in a straight line. Like the other class ideas.

F1 should go brushless, but maybe 21.5. Speed is about the same with a 540 and there is no maintance.

Would like to seeM other bodies if FF03 such as the Audi TT. Should keep the TC wings out - there are already 2 classes for that. FYI - the two races I attended were won with a '99 Celica body without a wing (carpet races)

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Do you have the part # for the celica, I hear its dialed with the short wheelbase setup
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:59 AM
  #16247  
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What about the rumor of separating FWD and RWD minis into their own classes?
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:10 AM
  #16248  
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Probably just that - with the M05 and M06 gearing being the same, there isn't as big of an advantage with FWD and RWD anymore. At certain tracks the FWD does better (low grip).

Back in '06 I think they had both and the FWD turn out was 20-30 per race and RWD was 3-5 per race. Probably not worth the time to split them up.

Besides, does anyone want me running two mini classes?
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:54 AM
  #16249  
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FWD (1/10) Cars with HUGE option rear wings is a cop-out in my opinion.. Learn to setup a chassis. it can be done, it has been done, lets keep doing it. Throwing a wing at a chassis to make it handle better is like installing Gyros. I hear the comment that wings allow for closer racing and rubbing, true.. but rubbing leads to something else..

the mini class has been doing it all this time with no huge wings, far less suspension tuning options and inferior tire selection (grip), uhmmm what am i missing?


$0.02
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:22 AM
  #16250  
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
If I might pipe in on the subject...17.5BL mini is fantastic! Stupid? Hardly. We switched over to a 2200kv spec BL system for this season and have seen benefits already. For what a person would spend on a couple of cheater cans, you can have a super reliable, tech-able, controllable esc/motor for all racers that takes tuner voodoo out of the equation. I've seen people burn through 3 tuned (purchased) cans in a weekend in their desire to win. This is cheaper and eliminates the "wallet racer" from contention. (They never really win anyway.)

What we got is a spec system, with a zero timing blinky mode, spec'd to run at 2200KV, which is about the same as a decent silver can that hasn't been messed with in any way. (around 18,500rpm at 8.4v) When I mention silver can, I should clarify that the current "CS" versions were not factored, as even Tamiya considers them an aberration. The motor is a "Hobbywing style" 380 rotor in a 540 sized can, which allows for loads of torque, but not so much as to be overwhelming. These systems keep speeds under control and have led to some great racing in the first few weeks of our on road season. (We run indoor on road over the winter here, off road in the summer. Hey, it's Canada.)

Anyway, sorry to sound like a lobbyist, but I'm enthusiastic as heck about these things. Also, my apologies if I offended any "tuners". I know some of you and you're great guys, but I believe it's time for a readjustment of values and an equalization of power.

Jim
The "tuners" haven't been running too many TCS races due to the rpm limits. Rumor has it that there will be two Mini classes next year. An experimental brushless class and the regular Silvercan class.

Several of the guys hare have been running 17.5 brushless Minis and they can be a lot quicker than a Can. If they are slower they just "crank" in more timing. When they first ran them, they were about the same speed, but that is no longer the case cause of the ability to advance the timing.

This brushless/silvercan topic has been beaten to death several times on this thread. Now the people who like brushless can go play "over there" and the Silvercan devotees can play "over here".

The question I have is whether it's wise to split Mini up into 2 classes. Attendance is down and even at the Nats we only had slightly over 30 entrants. I believe at one Regional they only had 9 or 10 entries. Don't know how many were entered in other regionals, but wonder what the heat sheets would look like.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:02 AM
  #16251  
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I share your concerns, Bob. More classes do not necessarily make for more racers or better racing and sooner or later we'll all be running brushless everything so we might as well get started. From speaking with the guys who did the all-brushless Novak race and the ones who ran in the enduro, brushless in Mini works just fine.

Does anyone know if Tamiya will be releasing their own brushless motor/esc combo's for the 2012 season? That could resolve some of the inequality between motor/esc combos. It would even bring me into TCS 17.5 sedan.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:09 AM
  #16252  
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Hi Granpa!

Any chance brushless motors will increase the turnouts in several classes at TCS?
If brushless gets the nod I'd consider asking to run 3 classes, F1, FF03 and yes, even Mini.
Not sure why 2 classes has been the limit since the turnout hasn't been overwhelming or has it?
If timing makes em go faster then anyone would be crazy not to max it out.
Why not?
Here I go again but in the Ultimate F1 races timing is cranked, esc is not and for 2 years no motor/esc of the week issues.
Different story due to Mini fixed gearing?
I run basic GTB esc and Novak SS, Ballistic, and LRP X11 motors. Others run all kinds of stuff right down to the Hobbywing combos. We're lovin it.

If Tamiya does get their brushless combos out it only makes sense to have them in the same winds as the popular classes already established, no? 21.5 and 17.5, and is 13.5 nearly dead as it leans toward modified when not boosted?
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:13 AM
  #16253  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
...
Does anyone know if Tamiya will be releasing their own brushless motor/esc combo's for the 2012 season? That could resolve some of the inequality between motor/esc combos. It would even bring me into TCS 17.5 sedan.
A lot of the locals agree this would be logical. But last i heard the Tamiya BL systems (not sure which model) had issues 'working' with some of the 2.4GHz radio systems, this 'issue' being part of the reason for the list of legal electronics. Or so ive heard..
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:23 AM
  #16254  
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Hey guys, like I mentioned, esc with zero timing 'blinky' mode and a motor with locked timIng and spec'd to run at a fixed speed. It just works.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:47 AM
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I have offered our CLUB SPEC ZERO TIMING ESC along with the LOCKED END BELL/timing (fully sealed) Brushless motor to TAMIYA and has no interest from them. At the I-hobby show last week...the same system was offer to alot of local track/dealer around IL area (WI, IA, IN and IL) and we have tons of orders this week and they are using this for the dedicated SPEC racing system....the same system used over Europe and Asia (ETS, EOS, ATS, AOS)...........I just don't understand.

The brushless motor is completely sealed...don't even have the vent holes for any possible cheating allow...and don't even bother to think about adjusting the timing, just impossilbe. But still...no interest.

I think afterall, spec racing is not for USA....we should all run MOD just like European and Asian in RAIN.

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Old 10-27-2011, 12:33 PM
  #16256  
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[QUOTE=F N CUDA;9836159]Hi Granpa!

Any chance brushless motors will increase the turnouts in several classes at TCS?
If brushless gets the nod I'd consider asking to run 3 classes, F1, FF03 and yes, even Mini.
Not sure why 2 classes has been the limit since the turnout hasn't been overwhelming or has it?
If timing makes em go faster then anyone would be crazy not to max it out.
Why not?
Here I go again but in the Ultimate F1 races timing is cranked, esc is not and for 2 years no motor/esc of the week issues.
Different story due to Mini fixed gearing?
I run basic GTB esc and Novak SS, Ballistic, and LRP X11 motors. Others run
all kinds of stuff right down to the Hobbywing combos. We're lovin it.

Actually, with the present state of the Silvercan world, it makes sense to go over to brushless. I'm in the process of building a new M03 to replace my 10 year old one. I spent what I could have purchased a brushless system for on just the esc. Most of the time, I was just using whatever and wanted to just once have a mini with all new stuff.

Craig,I hear from brushless advocates like you and others that the conversion is inexpensive, but for me not so much so. Converting 5 Minis, FF03, TA05, and an Xevo, not cheap. Then a new speedo or new rules and----don't even want to think about it.
]
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:48 PM
  #16257  
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at least the thread is moving again!
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
... Converting 5 Minis, FF03, TA05, and an Xevo, not cheap. Then a new speedo or new rules and----don't even want to think about it.
]
i feel your pain.. been ther done that.. only thing i can think of is have an all in one class.. Similar to LeMans.. SilverCan (voodoo allowed) and Brushless 17.5 (no boost and/or no timing) race in the same class... see who reigns supreme.. maybe the host can up the 'ante and issue two awards; Best for each Powertrain type and Best overall.. Let the tuners do what they do best against the 'simpletons'.

i cant wait for the FWD Class @ SpeedTech race.. should be interesting to see how things play out. altho i do already have my suspicions
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:22 PM
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I'm like you Granpa, too many chassis to have em all up and running at the same time so I bounce stuff around to suit the chassis flavor of the week.
From 2wd buggy, 2wd Short Course, F1 x 2 of em, 4wd Short Course, FF03 and finally Mini in order of personal preference, that's a ton of stuff to have all up and running and motor/esc combo isn't even the worst part.

Servos and receivers also come into play here so when I decide to run alternate or multiple classes I've got work to do switchin stuff around.
What I have done is to accumulate a couple/few receivers, servos and esc/motor combos. Enough to have 3 cars complete, took time but I got there and it's all old stuff. Only one of each brushless motor size that matters which are 21.5, 17.5 and a couple mod motors which I got all as used items.
I've never kicked for an esc for more than $100 and that was a like new GTB back in the day which I still run 2 of.

So it's really not too unlike what you have with all of your chassis which are now sporting brushed speedos and silvercans right?

A couple brushless speedos and a couple brushless motors might sting at first but the joy of motoring and only having to tune the chassis is priceless.
The rest of the stuff is probably already in the cars, servos and receivers?

Just twistin your arm knowing you're gonna love it too.

Rules and equipment specs changing would be devastating tho, agreed.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:33 PM
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Figured time to stirr the witches brew before Halloweeney.

Don't forget the Tamiya TA05 M Four.

Heard it could be a good open mod mini for TCS.
Then the purists can keep their 2wd silvercans and the BL can test their 4wd pocketbooks.
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