3LikesMugen MBX6
06-01-2012, 12:47 PM
Jeezes guys you are twisting this around and making it more complicated than it needs to be.
When you want to have the front wheels turning faster than the rear, you "under drive" the rear end on the Mugen: You use the 42/12 (ratio 3.50) at the rear end and 44/13 (ratio 3.38) on the front (most other manufactures will call this front over drive).
There are very few cases when you would want the front wheels spin slower than the rear!
When you use the same ratio in both the diffs, being 44/13 (EU) or 42/12 (US), then it is a different story and does not have anything to do with "overdrive or "underdrive". The final gear ratio is similar in both cased, due to the spur-gear and clutch bell used, but gives a different feel power-wise (as explained in one if the resent posts).
When you want to have the front wheels turning faster than the rear, you "under drive" the rear end on the Mugen: You use the 42/12 (ratio 3.50) at the rear end and 44/13 (ratio 3.38) on the front (most other manufactures will call this front over drive).
There are very few cases when you would want the front wheels spin slower than the rear!
When you use the same ratio in both the diffs, being 44/13 (EU) or 42/12 (US), then it is a different story and does not have anything to do with "overdrive or "underdrive". The final gear ratio is similar in both cased, due to the spur-gear and clutch bell used, but gives a different feel power-wise (as explained in one if the resent posts).
06-01-2012, 12:49 PM
guys please concentrate im seeing 2 different opinions here...
44/13 gives more top end/speed
42/12 gives more bottom/torque
then why you use more torque on rear wheels than the front?
44/13 makes the wheel spin faster , that means that have more torque, correct?
and 42/12 makes the wheels spin slower - more speed..
Which one is correct??
44/13 gives more top end/speed
42/12 gives more bottom/torque
then why you use more torque on rear wheels than the front?
44/13 makes the wheel spin faster , that means that have more torque, correct?
and 42/12 makes the wheels spin slower - more speed..
Which one is correct??
There is two applications for changing the gear ratio.
1. If you change both diffs from 44/13 to 42/12, or from 42/12 to 44/13, all you are doing is changing the overall ratio of the car, in the same way changing the pinion/spur combination would do. 42/12 giving more torque/acceleration and less top speed.
2. If you change to 44/13 front and 42/12 rear, you are overdriving the front compared to the rear. Creating a handling change that has the front pulling the car more than the rear is pushing the car. This adjustment is not about torque vs. top speed, it's about handling.
06-01-2012, 02:00 PM
ROFLOL.
I'm having a lot of fun watching you all arguing.
Anyway let me give you some insight into why the MBX6R-EU uses 42/12 for the internal ratio.
First things first, this is something that's been on the EU team cars since july/august, so nothing new.
The idea is to have the centre diff spinning faster, without changing the overall ratio much. Remember that back then the box ratio was 11.97 (44/13 x 46/13). The team started to use the new ratio with the 44T spur, which gives an overall ratio of 11.85, so the cars are geared a bit longer but not much.
In the end, the faster spinning centre driveline smoothes the acceleration (more inertia), the longer ratio lowers the torque at the wheels and the faster spinning centre diff also is more effective, meaning you can use lighter oil in the centre without losing drive.
The result is a car that puts the power down much better while keeping the overall ratio, and is much easier to drive. Given that EU tracks don't have much grip, it was decided to stick with the new ratio for the MBX6R-EU.
Just my 0.02€
I'm having a lot of fun watching you all arguing.
Anyway let me give you some insight into why the MBX6R-EU uses 42/12 for the internal ratio.
First things first, this is something that's been on the EU team cars since july/august, so nothing new.
The idea is to have the centre diff spinning faster, without changing the overall ratio much. Remember that back then the box ratio was 11.97 (44/13 x 46/13). The team started to use the new ratio with the 44T spur, which gives an overall ratio of 11.85, so the cars are geared a bit longer but not much.
In the end, the faster spinning centre driveline smoothes the acceleration (more inertia), the longer ratio lowers the torque at the wheels and the faster spinning centre diff also is more effective, meaning you can use lighter oil in the centre without losing drive.
The result is a car that puts the power down much better while keeping the overall ratio, and is much easier to drive. Given that EU tracks don't have much grip, it was decided to stick with the new ratio for the MBX6R-EU.
Just my 0.02€
06-01-2012, 02:07 PM
Does anyone here run the CSI pistons? Im tempted on trying them out but if they dont make that HUGe of a diffrence should i just save my $60 bucks?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
06-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Aside from allowing an 11.85 instead of an 11.97 there is really no reason to change from the stock ratios (44/13). It is a pretty small difference.
What would be worthwhile, would be to completely change the gearing by using the gears from the truggy (46/10) so that you'd arrive at the same final ratio with a much larger pinion/clutch bell. That makes the difference one tooth on the bell provides small enough to make it a realistic tuning option, not to mention allowing clutch bells to be stronger.
Xray and AE use this to great effect.
What would be worthwhile, would be to completely change the gearing by using the gears from the truggy (46/10) so that you'd arrive at the same final ratio with a much larger pinion/clutch bell. That makes the difference one tooth on the bell provides small enough to make it a realistic tuning option, not to mention allowing clutch bells to be stronger.
Xray and AE use this to great effect.
06-01-2012, 03:19 PM
Does anyone here run the CSI pistons? Im tempted on trying them out but if they dont make that HUGe of a diffrence should i just save my $60 bucks?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
06-01-2012, 09:08 PM
In order to make quicker diff changes I turned the hinge pins around so that the nuts face out. Then all you have to do is remove the nuts, outer mount, and outer diff case half, along with loosening the sway bar mounts on the arms. I did this front and rear.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
06-01-2012, 09:09 PM
Does anyone here run the CSI pistons? Im tempted on trying them out but if they dont make that HUGe of a diffrence should i just save my $60 bucks?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Set-12-MBX6
Also with all the time I have been running Mugen im considering trying to lighten the drive train for the fisrt time with the cups and joints like the U.S. spec includes. Does this increase the drive train speed and make it more snappy and less slugish?
06-01-2012, 09:27 PM
06-01-2012, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by CanyonCarverR1 View Post
In order to make quicker diff changes I turned the hinge pins around so that the nuts face out. Then all you have to do is remove the nuts, outer mount, and outer diff case half, along with loosening the sway bar mounts on the arms. I did this front and rear.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
Yep, that's how I have been doing it for years. Only on the front, as the rear is easy to get to.
__________________
i was doing that, and then for some reason, one of the front pins started working the nut loose. not once, but twice. cost me 2 different A mains on 2 different nights. if you have a decent powered screwdriver, it's not that much more effort or time to do it stock, pull the front end off and get to that shit.
besides, RARELY do i ever need to get to that at the track for a diff oil change. not even during nitro challenge. i service that before the event, and won't have to mess with it until after...weeks after.
just my .02
In order to make quicker diff changes I turned the hinge pins around so that the nuts face out. Then all you have to do is remove the nuts, outer mount, and outer diff case half, along with loosening the sway bar mounts on the arms. I did this front and rear.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
Yep, that's how I have been doing it for years. Only on the front, as the rear is easy to get to.
__________________
i was doing that, and then for some reason, one of the front pins started working the nut loose. not once, but twice. cost me 2 different A mains on 2 different nights. if you have a decent powered screwdriver, it's not that much more effort or time to do it stock, pull the front end off and get to that shit.
besides, RARELY do i ever need to get to that at the track for a diff oil change. not even during nitro challenge. i service that before the event, and won't have to mess with it until after...weeks after.
just my .02
06-02-2012, 01:42 AM
Anyway let me give you some insight into why the MBX6R-EU uses 42/12 for the internal ratio.
First things first, this is something that's been on the EU team cars since july/august, so nothing new.
The idea is to have the centre diff spinning faster, without changing the overall ratio much. Remember that back then the box ratio was 11.97 (44/13 x 46/13). The team started to use the new ratio with the 44T spur, which gives an overall ratio of 11.85, so the cars are geared a bit longer but not much.
In the end, the faster spinning centre driveline smoothes the acceleration (more inertia), the longer ratio lowers the torque at the wheels and the faster spinning centre diff also is more effective, meaning you can use lighter oil in the centre without losing drive.
The result is a car that puts the power down much better while keeping the overall ratio, and is much easier to drive. Given that EU tracks don't have much grip, it was decided to stick with the new ratio for the MBX6R-EU.
First things first, this is something that's been on the EU team cars since july/august, so nothing new.
The idea is to have the centre diff spinning faster, without changing the overall ratio much. Remember that back then the box ratio was 11.97 (44/13 x 46/13). The team started to use the new ratio with the 44T spur, which gives an overall ratio of 11.85, so the cars are geared a bit longer but not much.
In the end, the faster spinning centre driveline smoothes the acceleration (more inertia), the longer ratio lowers the torque at the wheels and the faster spinning centre diff also is more effective, meaning you can use lighter oil in the centre without losing drive.
The result is a car that puts the power down much better while keeping the overall ratio, and is much easier to drive. Given that EU tracks don't have much grip, it was decided to stick with the new ratio for the MBX6R-EU.
06-02-2012, 08:33 AM
My 6r ready to race next weekend.
06-02-2012, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by CanyonCarverR1 View Post
In order to make quicker diff changes I turned the hinge pins around so that the nuts face out. Then all you have to do is remove the nuts, outer mount, and outer diff case half, along with loosening the sway bar mounts on the arms. I did this front and rear.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
Yep, that's how I have been doing it for years. Only on the front, as the rear is easy to get to.
__________________
i was doing that, and then for some reason, one of the front pins started working the nut loose. not once, but twice. cost me 2 different A mains on 2 different nights. if you have a decent powered screwdriver, it's not that much more effort or time to do it stock, pull the front end off and get to that shit.
besides, RARELY do i ever need to get to that at the track for a diff oil change. not even during nitro challenge. i service that before the event, and won't have to mess with it until after...weeks after.
just my .02
In order to make quicker diff changes I turned the hinge pins around so that the nuts face out. Then all you have to do is remove the nuts, outer mount, and outer diff case half, along with loosening the sway bar mounts on the arms. I did this front and rear.
I cut down a 2mm hex key to hold the end of the pins while removing the nuts.
Cuts diff change time in half, or more.
Hope this helps.
Yep, that's how I have been doing it for years. Only on the front, as the rear is easy to get to.
__________________
i was doing that, and then for some reason, one of the front pins started working the nut loose. not once, but twice. cost me 2 different A mains on 2 different nights. if you have a decent powered screwdriver, it's not that much more effort or time to do it stock, pull the front end off and get to that shit.
besides, RARELY do i ever need to get to that at the track for a diff oil change. not even during nitro challenge. i service that before the event, and won't have to mess with it until after...weeks after.
just my .02
06-02-2012, 10:25 AM
We are awaiting another shipment of the Fioroni ergal pistons.
I swear by them, you can watch a car running them and visibly tell the difference, and in a good way. We have been selling every shipment out as soon as it hits, I finally snatched a set for my own buggy
I swear by them, you can watch a car running them and visibly tell the difference, and in a good way. We have been selling every shipment out as soon as it hits, I finally snatched a set for my own buggy
06-02-2012, 11:27 AM
