5LikesSC10 4x4 Thread
06-12-2012 | 09:14 AM
That's the difference between me and you. When somebody explains to me I got something wrong, I stop posting it. You don't, and continue to post nonsense.
I posted two lengthy responses to why bind wasn't a correct description of roll centers, Kiro did one. Yet you'll continue to post it because your infallible source who drives for AE said it was so. He's wrong and you're wrong.
What my age has to do with you not understanding what you are posting about is beyond me. But I'm sure your buddy Kraig the moderator will be here in shortly to explain to me with a week ban why I'm wrong to point out you simply don't understand the topic, and you have a long history of posting bad tech, and writing/posting cites as testimony to that fact somehow becomes harassment.
I'll send everyone a postcard.
06-12-2012 | 09:28 AM
Tech Master
iTrader: (120)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,076
From: SoCal - Chillin in the LBC
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1339512220
Figured I'd share the anodized black Exotek. Cost me $50 bucks though!
I did the same thing but put mine in the propane bbq instead with the cover closed at 250*-300*for 30min .
First photo was right after painting the chassis back November 2011. Second photo was taken last week. Shows a little wear but not bad for 7months. I think I should have taken more time to prep the raw chassis better prior to paint. Oh well.
Cost...$7-Krylon rattle can hi temp black.
06-12-2012 | 10:29 AM
I hope an opinion does not get someone banned otherwise what's the point of sharing opinions on a forum. If there is profanity or sharing someones real name and contact info when they don't want that to be public... thats a different story. But that hasn't been you or anyone else I've seen on this forum.
06-12-2012 | 10:30 AM
All you get with the oven is speeding up the drying time.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
06-12-2012 | 10:33 AM
Tech Legend
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,595
From: TRCR Modified Driver
I'm not dissing you. Your simply wrong about the vast majority of the things you elect to post on. When users post cites to back up why, you ignore them and continue to spew bad tech.
That's the difference between me and you. When somebody explains to me I got something wrong, I stop posting it. You don't, and continue to post nonsense.
I posted two lengthy responses to why bind wasn't a correct description of roll centers, Kiro did one. Yet you'll continue to post it because your infallible source who drives for AE said it was so. He's wrong and you're wrong.
What my age has to do with you not understanding what you are posting about is beyond me. But I'm sure your buddy Kraig the moderator will be here in shortly to explain to me with a week ban why I'm wrong to point out you simply don't understand the topic, and you have a long history of posting bad tech, and writing/posting cites as testimony to that fact somehow becomes harassment.
I'll send everyone a postcard.
That's the difference between me and you. When somebody explains to me I got something wrong, I stop posting it. You don't, and continue to post nonsense.
I posted two lengthy responses to why bind wasn't a correct description of roll centers, Kiro did one. Yet you'll continue to post it because your infallible source who drives for AE said it was so. He's wrong and you're wrong.
What my age has to do with you not understanding what you are posting about is beyond me. But I'm sure your buddy Kraig the moderator will be here in shortly to explain to me with a week ban why I'm wrong to point out you simply don't understand the topic, and you have a long history of posting bad tech, and writing/posting cites as testimony to that fact somehow becomes harassment.
I'll send everyone a postcard.
the last diss with the puppy thing ?
I ask you to give a better word for bind if you knew ...
Treated you with respect & maturity ...
Just posting I'm wrong over & over with no correction from you to bring no reason or explanation is pale.
Go ahead , post another puppy if you think
its the best you can do ....
I will just ignore those for now on .
I like helping everyone I can and bring positive to the thread ...
I used a really good term Mantis & you claim is all wrong .
Also "bind" is the same word given to me from drivers way far better & experience then you or me ...
I even agreed with other description's given by Kiro & others ...
Have fun Craig
and..... ?
Just Calm Down
06-12-2012 | 10:59 AM
Can't we all just get along?
The word bind is just confusing, it makes it sound like there is a problem with one of the joints that is not allowing the suspension to move freely. The issue with the term is that when the truck is static there is no binding in the suspension or at least there shouldn't be any.
Its a hard thing to say in words but I would say that it would be better to call it roll resistance, the forces coming from the ground into the wheels then transfer to the links...Depending on the angle of the links the force can help "stiffen" that side of the truck so that it resists rolling over as much. Its important to remember that the truck has to be in motion and under cornering forces to "activate" the resistance.
The word bind is just confusing, it makes it sound like there is a problem with one of the joints that is not allowing the suspension to move freely. The issue with the term is that when the truck is static there is no binding in the suspension or at least there shouldn't be any.
Its a hard thing to say in words but I would say that it would be better to call it roll resistance, the forces coming from the ground into the wheels then transfer to the links...Depending on the angle of the links the force can help "stiffen" that side of the truck so that it resists rolling over as much. Its important to remember that the truck has to be in motion and under cornering forces to "activate" the resistance.
06-12-2012 | 10:59 AM
I will throw this out there..his cars/trucks always work..So when it comes to set ups he actually does know what he's talking about..
06-12-2012 | 11:00 AM
Tech Master
iTrader: (120)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,076
From: SoCal - Chillin in the LBC
All you get with the oven is speeding up the drying time.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
Did all that just didn't take my time doing it.
06-12-2012 | 11:25 AM
Tech Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 289
From: SoCal
06-12-2012 | 11:30 AM
Tech Legend
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,595
From: TRCR Modified Driver
30 years racing >>>me
never question his set-ups either
bet they work , love to hear about & all...
Been using what the Ae's drivers do & share with everyone what I learn.
When they tell me something new ?
I bring to everyone ...
06-12-2012 | 11:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,719
From: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
When thinking about suspension I find it helpful to keep the truck as my point of reference rather than the ground...I will explain.
Rather than thinking of a diagram where the wheels stay in place on an imaginary plane (the ground) I keep the chassis in place, it provides a bit of insight on where forces are going.
Lets apply this "view" to a scenario.
So lets say we are working on our roll center and link adjustments (seems to be the hardest to visualize) and we are trying to figure out why we are loosing rear traction. Now "viewing" the truck from behind lets "watch" the suspension work as we make a left hand corner, as we turn in the right tire lifts up (remember the truck is rolling to the outside) and goes back down as we straighten the steering.
With that view you can come to a couple conclusions that may be different than you would initially think.
1.The "weight transfer" from center to the right side is applying pressure to the right side of the suspension...I believe we all agree on that one.
Yup
2.The suspension is absorbing some of this pressure, we know this because the right tire is lifting up.
Absorbing?
3. Not all of the weight that has transferred is being directly applied to the tire.
Clarification for what you mean exactly by "not ... directly applied to the tire"?
4. With a surface that has ample traction (lets say for a moment that it is ideal and there is no slide) there is no need for the right tire to lift, in fact if it pushed down it would actually help us get MORE traction.
Yes and no. Yes because the higher traction surface you are on, the less need for weight transfer (or lift as you called it) and this is exactly why stiffer springs or swaybars are used on on high traction surfaces. If there is no need to generate more traction, you want to minimize losses due to chassis sway and the like. No, because with the chassis leaning over there is literally more weight on the right side. Since the sum of the forces must equal zero in a constant state system (which this is for a sitting chassis that is leaning over) there is more pressure being placed on the tire since there is more weight on it. There is no lost force. You are thinking of a state of acceleration when you say if it 'pushed down' it will generate more force. If the spring pushes down harder than there is weight on the chassis, the chassis accelerates upwards. In that instant you will have more traction, but as soon as you stop the chassis from accelerating up it is gone.
If you want to see this concept in action watch a fast drag car launch. Your initial thought would be that the best launch would transfer a bunch of weight to the rear, the suspension would squat, and the car would launch and be gone. In reality, most fast drag cars do not squat at all they actually stay rather level or the rear of the car lifts (anti-squat) getting the maximum amount of force to transfer from the chassis directly to the tires and then into the ground.
They don't squat because they don't need more traction. They are trying to resist blowing over backwards. If you don't need more friction at the tires you want to minimize those losses. Let's look at another drag racer; the snowmobile. We drag race them on all types of surfaces... asphalt, grass, snow, and even water. Comparing the asphalt drag snowmobile that has literally unlimited traction to a snowmobile on grass or snow that don't have unlimited traction you will see two completely different results at launch. The asphalt sled acts just like a dragster. The snow/grass racer squats so much the front skis are hovering over the ground as all the weight transfers to the rear to maximize the available friction.
Of course it is different in our application because we are A. Talking about turning and B. on a sub optimal surface. The challenge becomes figuring out if the suspension reaction is too stiff causing too much weight to be applied or too soft absorbing more of the weight that should have been transferred. In all reality (not quite sure but it should be right) the same amount of weight is transferring from left to right its just where it gets absorbed or transferred that we are trying to control.
Again, too soft doesn't 'absorb' anything. The force gets to the ground no matter what.
Happy tuning!
Rather than thinking of a diagram where the wheels stay in place on an imaginary plane (the ground) I keep the chassis in place, it provides a bit of insight on where forces are going.
Lets apply this "view" to a scenario.
So lets say we are working on our roll center and link adjustments (seems to be the hardest to visualize) and we are trying to figure out why we are loosing rear traction. Now "viewing" the truck from behind lets "watch" the suspension work as we make a left hand corner, as we turn in the right tire lifts up (remember the truck is rolling to the outside) and goes back down as we straighten the steering.
With that view you can come to a couple conclusions that may be different than you would initially think.
1.The "weight transfer" from center to the right side is applying pressure to the right side of the suspension...I believe we all agree on that one.
Yup
2.The suspension is absorbing some of this pressure, we know this because the right tire is lifting up.
Absorbing?
3. Not all of the weight that has transferred is being directly applied to the tire.
Clarification for what you mean exactly by "not ... directly applied to the tire"?
4. With a surface that has ample traction (lets say for a moment that it is ideal and there is no slide) there is no need for the right tire to lift, in fact if it pushed down it would actually help us get MORE traction.
Yes and no. Yes because the higher traction surface you are on, the less need for weight transfer (or lift as you called it) and this is exactly why stiffer springs or swaybars are used on on high traction surfaces. If there is no need to generate more traction, you want to minimize losses due to chassis sway and the like. No, because with the chassis leaning over there is literally more weight on the right side. Since the sum of the forces must equal zero in a constant state system (which this is for a sitting chassis that is leaning over) there is more pressure being placed on the tire since there is more weight on it. There is no lost force. You are thinking of a state of acceleration when you say if it 'pushed down' it will generate more force. If the spring pushes down harder than there is weight on the chassis, the chassis accelerates upwards. In that instant you will have more traction, but as soon as you stop the chassis from accelerating up it is gone.
If you want to see this concept in action watch a fast drag car launch. Your initial thought would be that the best launch would transfer a bunch of weight to the rear, the suspension would squat, and the car would launch and be gone. In reality, most fast drag cars do not squat at all they actually stay rather level or the rear of the car lifts (anti-squat) getting the maximum amount of force to transfer from the chassis directly to the tires and then into the ground.
They don't squat because they don't need more traction. They are trying to resist blowing over backwards. If you don't need more friction at the tires you want to minimize those losses. Let's look at another drag racer; the snowmobile. We drag race them on all types of surfaces... asphalt, grass, snow, and even water. Comparing the asphalt drag snowmobile that has literally unlimited traction to a snowmobile on grass or snow that don't have unlimited traction you will see two completely different results at launch. The asphalt sled acts just like a dragster. The snow/grass racer squats so much the front skis are hovering over the ground as all the weight transfers to the rear to maximize the available friction.
Of course it is different in our application because we are A. Talking about turning and B. on a sub optimal surface. The challenge becomes figuring out if the suspension reaction is too stiff causing too much weight to be applied or too soft absorbing more of the weight that should have been transferred. In all reality (not quite sure but it should be right) the same amount of weight is transferring from left to right its just where it gets absorbed or transferred that we are trying to control.
Again, too soft doesn't 'absorb' anything. The force gets to the ground no matter what.
Happy tuning!
06-12-2012 | 12:00 PM
06-12-2012 | 12:05 PM
All you get with the oven is speeding up the drying time.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
If i were painting a chassis, I'd scuff it with a scotchbrite, wash it with windex then plain water, and spray it with my sponsor Rustoleum satin black in four light coats, letting it flash off for about 5 minutes between coats. $4 at Walmart.
