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Old 05-09-2011, 07:54 AM   #1
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Default SC10 4x4 Thread

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Team Associated SC10 4x4


Index
  1. Specs
  2. Required to Complete
  3. Tool Sizes
  4. Manufacturer Links
  5. Wheels
  6. Body
  7. Gearing
    • Added more user gearing suggestions(5/24/2011)
  8. Electronics
    1. Motors
    2. Speed Controls
  9. Diff & Shock Info
  10. Setup and Tuning Info
    • How to measure Ride Height(5/24/2011)
    1. Sway Bars
    2. Pullys
    3. Diff Oil
    4. Clicker
      • Added Clicker Tips(5/25/2011)
  11. Aftermarket Parts
  12. Build Notes & Tips
  13. Known Issues and Fixes
    1. Aftermarket Wheels
    2. Servo Wire Length
    3. Diff Fluids
    4. Transmission Binding
    5. Shocks
    6. Page-Specific Notes
      • Page 29 - Stopping crud from getting into spur/pinion(5/24/2011)
  14. Videos
  15. Files

1. Specs
Power Source: Electric
Terrain: Off-Road
Body Style: Truck
Scale Size: 1:10 Scale
Assembly Level: Kit*
Length: 550mm (21.65in)
Width: 293mm (11.54in)
Wheelbase: 327mm (12.87in)
Weight: 2775g (6.12 lbs)
Internal Gear Ratio: 2.57:1
Drive: 4WD
* This vehicle comes as a kit and must be fully assembled by the user. Electronics and/or an engine/motor may be required.

2. Required to Complete
  • R/C 2-channel surface frequency radio system
  • Battery pack (6 cell NiMh or 2 cell LiPo)
  • Battery charger (peak detection charger recommended)
  • Electronic speed control
  • R/C electric motor (550 size recommended)
  • Pinion gear
  • Tire glue
  • Paint for body
  • Steering servo
  • Differential Oil
  • Shock Oil
  • Servo Wire Extension
  • Blue Loctite

3. Tool Sizes
  • Nut Drivers
    • 5.5mm
    • 7mm
  • Hex Driver
    • 2.5mm
    • 2.0mm
    • 1.5mm
  • Turnbuckles
    • 4mm Wrench needed
    • 3.5mm rod

4. Manufacturer Links
Official AE Product Page
Specs
Manuals / Setups
Parts
Pictures/Videos

5. Wheels
  • Does not use SC10 2wd wheels.
  • Uses 12mm hex front/rear
  • Front and rear wheels are the same
  • Compatible wheels:
    • JConcepts Rulux
    • Pro-Line ProTrac (Some people are reporting that the ProLine ProTrac wheels do not fit very well and seem to be loose and wobbly)
    • It has been confirmed by several people that the Losi SCTE wheels are a direct fit, same offset and everything. (RaceCrafter)
    • DE Racing, any wheels that fit the Losi SCTE should fit the SC10 4x4 just fine.

6. Body
Yes, the SC10 2wd body fits, its a direct drop on, no mods needed.

7. Gearing
  • Comes with 32p and 48p spur gears.
  • 32p recommended for 550s, 48p for 540s

Gearing Recommendation as per the instruction manual: (thanks to swimmerx7)


User Gearing Recommendations


8. Electronincs

8.a Motors

When using 540 motors, use the motor manufacturer's largest rotor option. For LRP 540 motors, this is the 13mm option.(Rick Howart)
  • Novak Ballistic 550
    • Dimensions: Diameter 35.8mm x Length 72.1mm
    • Shaft DIameter: 5mm
    • Fits but its tight. Some people recommend shaving down the chassis a bit to make installation and removal easier
    • Fitting Novak 550 (The Jang @ UltimateRC.com)
  • Viper 550
  • Tekin SC4x
    • Dimensions: Diameter 36mm x Length 66mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 5mm
  • Castle 1410 3800
    • Dimensions: Diameter 35.9mm x Length 53mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 3mm
    • To use 32p pinions with a 5mm hole a reducer is needed, such as part number 91161 from Team Associated
  • LRP X-12L 550
    • Dimensions: Diameter 35.8mm x Length 66mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 5mm
    • Can be run as sensored or sensorless
    • Designed to fit in the SC10 4x4
  • Reedy 550-SL
    • Dimensions: Diameter 36mm x Length 55mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 5mm
    • Sensorless
    • Designed to fit in the SC10 4x4
  • Reedy Sonic 550
    • Dimensions: Diameter 35.8mm x Length 66mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 5mm
    • Can be run as sensored or sensorless
    • Designed to fit in the SC10 4x4
  • Trinity D3 Monster Horsepower SC motors
    • Dimensions: Diameter 35.75mm x Length 65.1mm
    • Shaft Diameter: 5mm

8.a Speed Controls

Castle Sidewinder SC/SV2
Spoke with Castle about the SCT system esc getting hot. Here is what they said
  1. Mount the esc up high (I mounted mine on rear shock tower) and put holes in window to allow air flow. Esc is pretty light so should be too much problem with weight up high. Castle said you can see 30 to 40 degree temp drops this way. They said fan on esc doesn't have nearly the same Cfm as holes in window.
  2. Motor temps should never be an issue if geared properly.
I ran this setup last night with no temp issues (cota4rt)

9. Diff & Shock Info

Stock shock oil:
  • Front 30wt, PN 5422
  • Rear 25wt, PN 5428
Stock Diff's come filled with 3000wt oil. Most setup sheets recommend 5000wt.

Stock Springs and Rates
  • Stock Front Blue (Short), 4.3LB
  • Stock Rear Blue (Long), 2.8LB

Shock Piston sizes:
  • #11 - 1.1mm - PN 91065
  • #12 - 1.2mm - PN 91065
  • #13 - 1.3mm - PN 91065
All three sizes are included in the kit. #12 is what the manual recommends.

Diff fluid starting points
*** PEOPLE ARE REPORTING THAT THE DIFFS ARE COMING WITH NO OR A VERY LOW AMOUNT OF DIFF FLUID. OPEN UP YOUR DIFFS AND MAKE SURE THERE IS ENOUGH OIL IN THEM!! ***
  • Current Setup sheets all say 5000wt

10. Setup and Tuning Info
Ride height
Measure from between the center/front chassis and center/rear chassis.

10a Sway Bars
I PMd Rick Howart on May 9, 2011 about the availability of sway bars. His response was: "It looks like sometime later this month for the bars. The truck is easier to drive without them but faster with them."

10b Pullys
If you run the 19t overdrive clicker it will make your front tires pull more then the rear allowing you more throttle out of the corner especially on loose tracks

10c Diff Oil
Some notes on using 60k weight oil in the front are here and here.

10d Clicker
The clicker is best used in either an on or off mode. This means either turn it all the way locked down, or loosen it right up.(Rick_Howart)
Most people will be faster with the clicker locked in almost all instances even if feel you have less steering. You will more than make up for this with the ability to brake harder and/or more effectively.(Rick_Howart)

11. Aftermarket Parts
  • AE's list of optional parts and accessories
  • Titanium Turnbuckles - As of 5/16/2010 there are no titanium turnbuckle kits available. However, you can make your own using these part numbers: (lockmouth)
    • Lunsford part number 11073 measures out to: 63.5mm .... Stock is 65mm
    • Lunsford part number 11078 measures out to: 79.37mm .... Stock is 80mm

12. Build Notes & Tips
General Info:
If you are missing any parts from your kit, call AE customer support at (949) 544-7500. You can email them at [email protected] but will get a better, faster response if you call them.

Build Videos
15 minute time lapse build video from SaladFork.
6 minute time lapse build video from jjlove.

13. **** Known Issues and Fixes ****

13a Wheels

Some aftermarket wheels are too thick to allow the stock lock nut to thread all the way to the nylon (ProLine ProTracs for example). This prevents the locking action from happening. Serrated nuts can be used to lock into the wheel.
This is also a good idea to use on stock wheels as well, since the nut will come loose eventually.
  • ProLine ProTrac. (Some people are reporting that the ProLine ProTrac wheels do not fit very well and seem to be loose and wobbly.)
  • DE Racing, any wheels that fit the Losi SCTE should fit the SC10 4x4 just fine.

13b Servo Wire
  • Problem:
    • The servo wires WILL NOT reach the receiver box.
  • Resolutions:
    1. Use a servo extension wire
    2. Don't use the receiver box, mount the receiver closer to the front of the truck

Servos verifid as being too short:
  • Associated XP DS1015 (use horn "F") (Rick Howart)
  • Associated XP DS1313 (use horn "F") (Rick Howart)
  • Hitec HSC-5998TG
  • JR 9100S
  • Savox 1267MG
  • Spektrum S6040
  • JR 8800
Servos verified as having a long enough wire:
  • Hitec 7955TG
  • Hitec 965MG
  • Hitec 985MG
  • JR 8611
  • JR 8711
  • Savox 1258TG
  • Savox 1256TG

13c Diff Fluid levels are too low
  • Problem:
    • The oil level in the pre-assembled front and rear diffs is too low.
  • Resolutions:
    1. Open up the diffs and add more oil

13d Transmission Case binds
  • If the rear transmission case binds, use a washer on all three screws, not just the top two (as per page 13 in the build manual). Be sure not to over-tighten them there screws
    check the front gearbox screws. There are three screws for the front gearbox, two are 24mm and one is 26mm. I accidentally put the 26mm for the lower screw. This caused the screw to come through the other side and bind the front clicker pulley flange 91013, causing unwanted tension.
  • First thing, take the wheels off. Then take the belt, the clicker and the slipper off. Even take the cva's out of the outrives. Now check and spin the topshaft o the front and rear. If you feel any resistance in the rear, the motor plate it too tight. Threadlock the ends of the bolts, snug them down and back them off a half turn. It should now be super free. In the front, if there is any binding, the belt cover is too tight, snug it up, and again back it of a half turn, make sure to notice if the bolts are protruding out of the plastic on the inside of the belt cover, it could rub on the clicker causing bindin as well. it should feel nice and free now. Also put some diff grease on between the two halves of the clicker, making it smoother. Now put the belt on. symmetricon

13e Shocks
The screw inside the shocks that holds the piston to the shaft may not be tight enough, and will come loose.
Apply some thread lock to the shock piston screw. Doing so will help prevent the piston from falling off, and ruining your shocks.

[b]13f Dirt Getting into Spur/Pinion Gear
How the junk gets in is from a motor mount adjustment slot.
Looking from the motor side of the mount towards the front of the motor you can see the slot is open. It's easier to see when the gear cover is off.
Fix, from the spur side on a bit of tape to cover the holes after you have set the gear mesh.(tmail55)

10f Page-Specifc Notes

Page 1:
Yes, you can skip the servo install and continue building the kit. (RacerMike).

Skip ahead to page 8. On page 10 leave the belt cover off of the front transmission and mount the trans by itself in the front chassis plate. You can also install the front shock tower and suspension, shocks, body mount.
When you get the servo and build the assembly it will drop right on, put the belt cover and clicker on and slide the front chassis assembly onto your finished center/rear section.
(RacerMike)

Use threadlock on the servo horn screw.

Page 4
The front inner body mount #91004 attaches to the front chassis brace #91014. Each side of the brace has two small holes next to the inner body mount that can be plugged with small setscrews. (Troy_Konitzer)


Page 7
Make sure to apply a small amount of black grease on the servo saver halves before building the servo saver.

Page 8
Use a bit of Green Slime, #1105, on the 91005 paper diff seal to help prevent fluid leakage from the differentials.

Page 9, 12:
Open up the pre-assembled diffs and check the fluid level. Lots of people have reported that they are empty or very low on fluid. Probably a good idea to buy some extra fluid when buying the kit.

Page 10
Check the front gearbox screws. There are three screws for the front gearbox, two are 24mm and one is 26mm. I accidentally put the 26mm for the lower screw. This caused the screw to come through the other side and bind the front clicker pulley flange 91013, causing unwanted tension. (stvnmccc)
Grease the front clicker to quiet it down (racer1812)

Page 10, 13
The screws for the rear transmission case, #89226 (M3x26) and #89225 (M3x24), do not have to be completely tightened down. They just have to be snug enough to hold the motor plate. Over tightening can cause drag in the drive train. Be sure to use Factory Team thread lock #1596 before installing the screws as well!

Page 11
When assembling the clicker assembly apply a drop of CA to the nylon on the adjustment nut. This will help to prevent the nut from backing off. Also use a small amount of black grease on the clicker teeth to keep it quiet.

Page 13
Add 1 ball stud washer, #9630, on each of the M3x26 and M3x24 transmission case screw.

Page 14:
Page 14 Camber link hole, use outer rather than inner. (mca).
Confirmed by Chris Jarosz: "The manual is incorrect. You will want to run the ballstud on the outer hole in the front."

Page 14, 15
Use a very small dab of threadlock to hold the threaded ball stud inserts, #91021, into the shock towers.
Make sure to apply some thread lock on the inner ball studs pages 14 & 15. This will help prevent them from loosening up while running.

Page 16, 20
Use a very-very small drop of CA on the wheel hex pins #91027. This helps keep the pins in the axles when you remove the wheels or remove the hexes.

Page 18
Be extra careful to use the correct screws to hold on the front hinge pin brace! Double check that they are 10mm long ones, #25620 and not 12mm in the rest of that part of the build. Using too long of screws can cause the front transmission to bind.

Page 21
Make sure to apply some thread lock to the shock piston screw. Doing so will help prevent the piston from falling off.
Remove the upper X-Ring, #91055, this will free up the shocks and takes a lot of the stiction away and the shocks will feel much smoother. Dont forget that the shock cartridge seal tube is directional!
If you are running without shock boots, #91070, on the shocks, you must add up travel limiters to avoid damaging the bladder.

Bladder vs Emulsion
A bladder shock will have more pack than an emulsion shock, with the same oil and same piston...but thats because the oil doesn't become an emulsified froth in a bladder shock. When the air and oil mix it becomes "lighter" in viscosity. While going lighter in oil increases traction and decreases pack, it does so equally in both style shocks, just far more consistently in a bladder shock as there's no way to correctly gauge the amount of air is actually in your emulsion build, and there's also no changing from start to finish as the oil and air are in different stages of emulsion.

Having a bladder allows you to build your shocks with more, and more consistent rebound. Faster rebound creates more traction as it keeps your tire on the racing surface. It also keeps your shocks consistent from start to finish of a race, as the air and oil never mix.
(Ridley)

Page 22
Bleeding the shocks when building them with bladders:
Fill the shock with oil and move the shaft halfway up. Next put the bladder on, you might have to push down a bit to help it seat better. Now screw the cap on completely. Wipe the excess oil off and you're done. (Chris Jarosz)
When running bladders, you can remove the bleeder screw to reduce the air-spring effect caused by the air being trapped above the bladder.

Shocks:
I suggest taking all 4 shocks apart because including myself, 3 people had a problem with the screw coming off the top of the shock shaft that holds the piston on. It came off on one of my shocks so I checke them all and they were loose. Nothing a lil loctite can't fix. (novak12)

Page 27
If you are having major problems with not being able to get the slipper tightened down, put 2 shims after the thrust washer and problem is SOLVED!! The thrust washer was machined too thin causing the problem. (JoeC)

Page 28
What the manual doesn't explain is that if you use the optional 19t pulley the described tensioner settings will allow the belt to be loose. (RaceCrafter)
Use the high-torque slipper pad, #91170, on the outer slipper hub only when using 550 motors.

Page 29
From the spur side of the motor mount, stick on a bit of tape to cover the motor adjustment slot holes after you have set the gear mesh to prevent dirt from getting in.(tmail55)

Page 39
Can use HPI or Traxxas wheel nuts when using ProLine (or any) wheel. These nuts have serrated edge to lock into the wheel.
Adding thread lock will help the wheels nuts from backing off during operation.

14. Videos
15. Files
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Last edited by BuckMan; 07-04-2011 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Added more fantastic info/links
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:42 AM   #2
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very nice start. I hope this takes off and stays clean.

I made a small parts order this morning. first lhs to get 1, gets my $ (closest lhs is an hour, 2cd is 1:45. 15mpg x 4$ per gallon....who cares at this point)
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:45 AM   #3
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does anyone have the sway bars for it yet ?
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:52 AM   #4
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Is everybody staying with 3k in the diffs? What about on a loose dirt outdoor track? Thanks
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:18 AM   #5
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The Tekin SC Motors are 66mm in length, same as the LRP SC Motors. And AE Recommends there SC motor of course to run in it. So Tekin and LRP motors should both fit. The Ballistic is 72 mm The Viper Motors are 72 mm long as well, as stated in this post by Viper http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ml#post9067506
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:40 AM   #6
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Thank you CraigV, someone needed to step up and start this.

I think this is the gearing recommendation (copied from manual):
  • 550 motor = 32 pitch = 62t spur
4.5 turn = 12t pinion
5.5 turn = 13t pinion
  • 540 motor = 48 pitch = 93t spur
5.5 turn = 15t pinion
6.5 turn = 16t pinion
7.5 turn = 17t pinion


If this is the case then my question is: Where does the Castle 1410 1y 3800 kV brushless motor fit?

Is 1y = 1 turn?

What pinion should us castle 4 pole guys start with in 48pitch?
(I personally have never stripped a 48p, but stripped numerous 32p)
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmerx7 View Post

Where does the Castle 1410 1y 3800 kV brushless motor fit?

Is 1y = 1 turn?

What pinion should us castle 4 pole guys start with in 48pitch?
(I personally have never stripped a 48p, but stripped numerous 32p)
In general you should go by the KV rating to determine which pinion. A 3800KV is close to the 5.5t 550 motors sho I would go with the 13t 32P pinion and check speed vs. temps.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:57 AM   #8
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I definitely like this thread more than the "official" sc10 4x4 thread. I hope we can keep this thread technical.

I plan on using the 32p spur with a 14-15T on my CC 1410 motor. I'll be using it with my RX8 ESC. Great combo and works great on my heavy SCTE. It should haul a*s on the SC10 4x4.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:57 AM   #9
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This is great Craig! Thanks
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccessRacer View Post
Is everybody staying with 3k in the diffs? What about on a loose dirt outdoor track? Thanks
i'll be staying with 3k, solely to decrease build time

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortCourseOnly View Post
In general you should go by the KV rating to determine which pinion. A 3800KV is close to the 5.5t 550 motors sho I would go with the 13t 32P pinion and check speed vs. temps.
that's actually simple enough for me, thx
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmerx7 View Post
i'll be staying with 3k, solely to decrease build time



that's actually simple enough for me, thx


You might want to reconsider doing that. My buddy (team driver) decided
to look inside his diffs before installing them and found just enough 3000wt
diff lube to coat the gears. He had to fill his diffs.

I know I'll be checking mine before installing them..

Just some food for thought...
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep'N It Cool View Post
The Tekin SC Motors are 66mm in length, same as the LRP SC Motors. And AE Recommends there SC motor of course to run in it. So Tekin and LRP motors should both fit. The Ballistic is 72 mm The Viper Motors are 72 mm long as well, as stated in this post by Viper http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ml#post9067506
This thread couldn't have come at better timing for me. I just purchased an SC10.

I have a TEKIN RS-PRO system with an 8.5. What pinion / spur recommendations are out there?
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:26 AM   #13
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Just in case you missed it, Hmmmm, seems like Novak designed a Ballistic 550 for this truck specificaly??Not sure as they as it seems to have the same dimensions as the others?? Maybe it's just Tower trying to appeal more to the Ae 4wd crowd or it really was designed for this truck, hence implying it's different from the other ballistic 550 systems..Check it out:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBGEX&P=0

Let's keep this thread going with objective, and contructive info about this truck ...Good move!!
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarinexia View Post
This thread couldn't have come at better timing for me. I just purchased an SC10.

I have a TEKIN RS-PRO system with an 8.5. What pinion / spur recommendations are out there?

I talked to Tekin as did one of my Tekin team driver friends and they do not
recommend the pro in any 4x4 at all. They say you must run the RX8 ESC
in 4x4's... Give'm a call...first.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarqueeRc View Post
Just in case you missed it, Hmmmm, seems like Novak designed a Ballistic 550 for this truck specificaly??Not sure as they as it seems to have the same dimensions as the others?? Maybe it's just Tower trying to appeal more to the Ae 4wd crowd or it really was designed for this truck, hence implying it's different from the other ballistic 550 systems..Check it out:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBGEX&P=0

Let's keep this thread going with objective, and contructive info about this truck ...Good move!!
The difference is that it comes with a 12 tooth 32p pinion also.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...o-45T-SC10-4x4
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