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Old 03-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #1921
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Default Clutch Help!!

Hi All,
I'm having major nightmares with this clutch and I've tried heaps and read up on all your tips to try and get it right but fail badly
It slips like crazy and has no punch/bite at all.

here is how it's set up right now going from the engine bearing:

I've put washers behind the taper cone so my gears line up perfectly
stock clutch spring
I set the clutch spring nut flush as per instruction to the flywheel nut
2 shims (1 shim and the bell will bind)
bearings
thrust bearing
3 shims
minimal end float - 0.1 or so

After an abysmal night, i can see the clutch bell have heaps of clutch material on it, I sanded that off and it was better. I could have already burnt my clutch so i will buy another one but dont want to burn again

what am i doing wrong?
Should i get a softer clutch spring and/or different clutch material?

I'm running an OS TG right now

Thanks heaps in advance!
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:29 PM   #1922
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Originally Posted by nazarc View Post
The Car:

What body is that on Roberts car?
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:31 PM   #1923
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Protoform SRS-N

http://racepf.com/touring-car-200mm/...ht-clear-body/
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:25 AM   #1924
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Originally Posted by kickass View Post
Its Just an Illusion
Harsh much?, I agree with a tiny bit of that, but I have seen every brand strip gears, so I find it very hard to see a fault with the design of the car as such, maybe with some of the things which were faulty, end stopper for example, and out of the kit it can be hard to get the gears meshed properly without flywheel shims, but you honestly think the car itself beyond that is seriously more prone to stripping than any other when set properly?.

On plastic diff gears, just last night I saw a mate stripping Cap diff gears within the same meet of fitting them, it's the risk of running plastics, the electric guys still strip them in mod, I have heard of guys stripping aftermarket ones in other brands (nitro), so moral of story is Mugen perhaps should have supplied the kit with steel to begin with.
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:36 AM   #1925
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Originally Posted by poop View Post
Hi All,
I'm having major nightmares with this clutch and I've tried heaps and read up on all your tips to try and get it right but fail badly
It slips like crazy and has no punch/bite at all.

here is how it's set up right now going from the engine bearing:

I've put washers behind the taper cone so my gears line up perfectly
stock clutch spring
I set the clutch spring nut flush as per instruction to the flywheel nut
2 shims (1 shim and the bell will bind)
bearings
thrust bearing
3 shims
minimal end float - 0.1 or so

After an abysmal night, i can see the clutch bell have heaps of clutch material on it, I sanded that off and it was better. I could have already burnt my clutch so i will buy another one but dont want to burn again

what am i doing wrong?
Should i get a softer clutch spring and/or different clutch material?

I'm running an OS TG right now

Thanks heaps in advance!
Your not doing anything wrong as such, when I first got my five I was testing some suspension mods, and threw my old TG in to see how it would go at one point, but unfortunately found the stock clutch was too aggressive for something like a TG, I could not get it to stop slipping too much.

I never investigated further, but I'm guessing softer spring, or maybe more weight in the flywheel weights (grub screws), something to get it to engage more.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:07 AM   #1926
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Default diffs

we just built new diffs to day and the out drives spin lovely and dont bind like old ones new screws are great i said it before my 3 still has same oil in diffs that it was built with and same chassi as it came with pro spect///not bent yet also put new chassi on for easter// nsw//but car is still great so grandson tell me
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:45 AM   #1927
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Has anyone with the gear stripping problem tried a thicker chassis yet? I had a MTX-4R with the same problem and tried every tip and trick to fix it with no luck. Even had a Mugen sponsored driver check my car and set my mesh and it immediately stripped and he was stumped. After I installed a thicker chassis, it never stripped again.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:24 AM   #1928
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hey guys,
So i qualified 2nd just 9 seconds behind Mike Swagger at the Motonica race.
So far the car feels great! No stripped gears and I am running without the brace.

The track is a parking lot layout with boards and high tire wear. I am running 35 fronts and 40 rears and losing about 2 mm of wear on the outside rear for 8 minutes. The 40 minute main will be interesting. Some locals were saying that they run 40 fronts , a 45 rear outside and a 42 rear inside. They also start them straight out of the box for the rears...

I can post my setup if anyone is interested too
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:35 AM   #1929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poop View Post
Hi All,
I'm having major nightmares with this clutch and I've tried heaps and read up on all your tips to try and get it right but fail badly
It slips like crazy and has no punch/bite at all.

here is how it's set up right now going from the engine bearing:

I've put washers behind the taper cone so my gears line up perfectly
stock clutch spring
I set the clutch spring nut flush as per instruction to the flywheel nut
2 shims (1 shim and the bell will bind)
bearings
thrust bearing
3 shims
minimal end float - 0.1 or so

After an abysmal night, i can see the clutch bell have heaps of clutch material on it, I sanded that off and it was better. I could have already burnt my clutch so i will buy another one but dont want to burn again

what am i doing wrong?
Should i get a softer clutch spring and/or different clutch material?

I'm running an OS TG right now

Thanks heaps in advance!
It sounds like you might not have enough total clutch shoe travel. The shoe should travel a total of around .4 mm whether you have a stationary clutch bell or not. It sounds like your shoe is only traveling .2 mm if there is only one spacer inside the clutch bell and .1 end float.

I have been running .3 mm of space on the inside of the clutch bell. Like you i find where the bell will start dragging on the shoe and then add .3 shims and have .1 or 0 end float.

With the .5 shim behind the flywheel , i measure the distance of the clutch nut to the end of the crank. I have been running it at 9.5 mm. I measure it at the same point on the crank and not the nut when the piston is at the bottom of the sleeve. ( does that make sense?)

At first, I noticed that the clutch nut sometimes backs out. I added just a touch of blue loctite on the clutch nut and made sure to use small outer diameter shims on the inside of the clutch bell. Sometimes larger shims will rub on the bearing and the nut which might back out the nut.

good luck
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:57 AM   #1930
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[email protected]&& on your p2!!! Wish you well in the race! This clutch does not respond to spring tension. This clutch does respond to gap and driver input. Every clutch in the past we were rolling slowly on throttle to avoid the viscous lock up that we new was coming. The new clutch slips, allot. Pick up the throttle quicker. Your now controlling lock up instead of controlling slip. I understand the thought of adding set screws or weight to the fly weights, but in the end your only fighting the clutch. It does not work this way. If you want it to bang try a soft spring big gap and hammer the trigger. If your driving style consists of going from wide open throttle in second gear to full brake you are going to strip gears.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #1931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMD View Post
Has anyone with the gear stripping problem tried a thicker chassis yet? I had a MTX-4R with the same problem and tried every tip and trick to fix it with no luck. Even had a Mugen sponsored driver check my car and set my mesh and it immediately stripped and he was stumped. After I installed a thicker chassis, it never stripped again.

Gear mesh according to piestch grphs, the play on the 2 speed shaft and the bell shuld be 0.1.. And the 2 speed shoes apart as possible, and you won't strip gears. Don't adjust like these and even with a 5mm chasis and brace you'll strip gears

There's no issue, there's just misalignment from users all over the world
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #1932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perez View Post
hey guys,
So i qualified 2nd just 9 seconds behind Mike Swagger at the Motonica race.
So far the car feels great! No stripped gears and I am running without the brace.

The track is a parking lot layout with boards and high tire wear. I am running 35 fronts and 40 rears and losing about 2 mm of wear on the outside rear for 8 minutes. The 40 minute main will be interesting. Some locals were saying that they run 40 fronts , a 45 rear outside and a 42 rear inside. They also start them straight out of the box for the rears...

I can post my setup if anyone is interested too
good result..yup, pls post ur setups
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:15 PM   #1933
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Default mtx5

there is no problem we are just misguided mugen drivers ask lars or any cap driver i have seen striped gears and diffs on these unbreakable cap as well//ha welcome to the world of rc
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:42 PM   #1934
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Thanks Perez and Bishop for the clutch info.

I'll give it a shot and see if i can get it to slip less. And please post up your set up Perez!
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:56 AM   #1935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poop View Post
Thanks Perez and Bishop for the clutch info.

I'll give it a shot and see if i can get it to slip less. And please post up your set up Perez!
i agree witht he above poster. I have raced other brands for a while now and the mugen clutch has a very soft spring setting.

the trick is to not over tighten the spring. even half a turn on the mugen spring can result in too much tension. Initially do what the manual says. tighten the spring flush to the pilot shaft nut. as the spring gets looser you can go half a turn or 3/4 of a turn in.

also this clutch responds with significant slip if you shim too much of a gap between the shoe and the bell. i found .4 to be the maximum, .5 for me resulted in slip.

finally what i did with the flyweights is i sanded down the inside edge that hits the pilot shaft when the shoes move out. check yourself, move the flywheights out and notice the edge that hits the shaft, then cut this edge down so the fly weight can move all the way out, doing this helps to get a little more movement from the shoe towards the bell.
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