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Old 03-26-2012, 03:10 AM   #1936
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
i agree witht he above poster. I have raced other brands for a while now and the mugen clutch has a very soft spring setting.

the trick is to not over tighten the spring. even half a turn on the mugen spring can result in too much tension. Initially do what the manual says. tighten the spring flush to the pilot shaft nut. as the spring gets looser you can go half a turn or 3/4 of a turn in.

also this clutch responds with significant slip if you shim too much of a gap between the shoe and the bell. i found .4 to be the maximum, .5 for me resulted in slip.

finally what i did with the flyweights is i sanded down the inside edge that hits the pilot shaft when the shoes move out. check yourself, move the flywheights out and notice the edge that hits the shaft, then cut this edge down so the fly weight can move all the way out, doing this helps to get a little more movement from the shoe towards the bell.
Cheers TomB for the great info! sanding the weights is certainly something that i havent even thought of at all and sounds like something that should be checked.
Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:15 AM   #1937
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Cheers TomB for the great info! sanding the weights is certainly something that i havent even thought of at all and sounds like something that should be checked.
Thanks!
That's a great idea Tom!!
I spoke with Robbie from Mugen and he suggested to undo the tension on the clutch spring between races since it is so soft. I noticed that after two races my clutch spring went south and was about 1mm shorter than a new one.

the race was canceled because of rain....

But my set up for the qualifier was...
Front:
37F cut at 59MM
298 MM track width
-1 degree on outside camber and -.5 on the inside (wearing the tires flat)
Lt blue spring, one hole piston, 500 weight oil, middle shock tower hole
2.3 mm roll bar
150K oil with composite gears
upper arms in the top roll center position
+1 toe out on each side
ackerman in the middle position
one small clip in front for caster
5 MM ride height.

Rear:
40's cut at 61MM
299 track width
-2.5 camber on outside and 2 on inside ( wearing them with a little coning)
Lt blue spring, two hole piston, 500 weight oil, third hole from bottom.
2.4 mm roll bar
80 K weight oil with steel gears
6 MM ride height.
3 mm spacer on upper arm link and on inside lower hole
-1 toe in on each side

P37 body
again large parking lot track with high tire wear and good traction.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #1938
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Originally Posted by Perez View Post
That's a great idea Tom!!
I spoke with Robbie from Mugen and he suggested to undo the tension on the clutch spring between races since it is so soft. I noticed that after two races my clutch spring went south and was about 1mm shorter than a new one.

the race was canceled because of rain....

But my set up for the qualifier was...
Front:
37F cut at 59MM
298 MM track width
-1 degree on outside camber and -.5 on the inside (wearing the tires flat)
Lt blue spring, one hole piston, 500 weight oil, middle shock tower hole
2.3 mm roll bar
150K oil with composite gears
upper arms in the top roll center position
+1 toe out on each side
ackerman in the middle position
one small clip in front for caster
5 MM ride height.

Rear:
40's cut at 61MM
299 track width
-2.5 camber on outside and 2 on inside ( wearing them with a little coning)
Lt blue spring, two hole piston, 500 weight oil, third hole from bottom.
2.4 mm roll bar
80 K weight oil with steel gears
6 MM ride height.
3 mm spacer on upper arm link and on inside lower hole
-1 toe in on each side

P37 body
again large parking lot track with high tire wear and good traction.
Wow how do make your car so wide? must be using arms off a buggy LOL.
I've been told my car is wide but thats because i can't hold a straight line!! LOL
Humm i think the 2 should be a 1

Thanks for sharing your setup
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:30 PM   #1939
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oh yeah... sorry its supposed to say 198 and 199!!! also ran the rear arms in the middle roll center hole
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:15 AM   #1940
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wow i though my memory at my age was good but i try to limit my mistakes to spelling but we all race rc/ so what do we expect i bet he remembers what 36/24 /35 numbers did stand for and i am not talking about tier shore i'm 64 and i still remember but i probably have a heart attack if i thought about it 2 much
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:07 AM   #1941
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Problem 1.
During the Italian league, Pietsch suggested some solutions. The Mtx5 is subject to change breakage of the gearbox. The pinion of the second gear, the gear touches plastic. Necessary to reduce the thickness of the pinion # 2 to the lathe. You could put a thickness of 0.3 mm between the first and second gears in plastic. According to Pietsch, however, is not good solution. The main problem is the brakes. During braking the frame is subject to large bending forward. For optimal performance, everything must remain so. Pietsch normally does not use the brake ..... it is set to "soft".during a crash, the gears are subject to breakage. The introduction of a change you can limit or eliminate the problem, even if you lose 1 Performance of tithing. Just put a "carbon rod" between retrotrenoe the radio plate (roll).

Problem 2.
The engine mounts are low for some motors, like the SIRIO. The motor is too close to the frame .... and this involves the breaking of the casing. There are optional exceeding 1 mm.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:10 AM   #1942
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Clutch.
The clamp which regulates the hardness should be about 0.1-0.2. Very soft. Under the bell should be placed a thickness of 0.1 -0.2.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:16 AM   #1943
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The final of the Italian championship was on the wet track. Pietsch car did not go well. set-up "dry" and rubber latex. Then put the KISS. Daniel Ielasi was the fastest ..... wet track?.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:45 PM   #1944
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Originally Posted by nazarc View Post
Problem 1.
During the Italian league, Pietsch suggested some solutions. The Mtx5 is subject to change breakage of the gearbox. The pinion of the second gear, the gear touches plastic. Necessary to reduce the thickness of the pinion # 2 to the lathe. You could put a thickness of 0.3 mm between the first and second gears in plastic. According to Pietsch, however, is not good solution. The main problem is the brakes. During braking the frame is subject to large bending forward. For optimal performance, everything must remain so. Pietsch normally does not use the brake ..... it is set to "soft".during a crash, the gears are subject to breakage. The introduction of a change you can limit or eliminate the problem, even if you lose 1 Performance of tithing. Just put a "carbon rod" between retrotrenoe the radio plate (roll).

Problem 2.
The engine mounts are low for some motors, like the SIRIO. The motor is too close to the frame .... and this involves the breaking of the casing. There are optional exceeding 1 mm.
problem 1: before looking at piestch graphs i did exactly the same when mi kit was new! put some shims behind the flywheel so not to use shim in the trhust bearing stopper, 0.4-0.5mm gap, 0.1mm play, and noticed the thing about the 20t pinion gear way too close to the 53t spur, so what i did (since mi kit came with minimal play on the shaft ) was to put the one way hub on teh press, and with a rubber hammer make the one way bearing move barely to the inside, i remember i moved it about 0.4mm, and it worked good, ive never stripped a gear!, on a friends kit on the trackin since i did not have the press nor the hammer, what we did was to barely dremel the rear side puelly spacer made of plastic, so to have play on the shaft and so, we could fit 1 6x8x0.3mm shim between the 1 gear hub and 2nd gear hub, it worked perfect and eventually had the same result, no touch beween the 20t pinion and 53t spur.no issues at alla
problem 2, i have used the stock brakes, the optionals, and even sanded the stock ones so to fit mtx4 teflon ones, the stock ones, long life, low brake, the optionals, medium life medium brake, and the teflon ones, they stop your car at once for sure, but eventually if set too aggresive they experience fade in comparison with the stock or optionals,using optionals is enough brake for my taste with or without brace that i sometimes use, but i must mention i use a floating chasis brace (with ball links so not to prevent torsional flex but to have less damage in chasis in case of front impact)

balestri using a km chasis annihilated the competiton on tthe first italian round, didnt understood how come he had a almost 2 second lap faster than current european champion, now i know it was due to rain lol
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #1945
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hey guys,

a feedback on my test runs.i stripped a gear on my first day.that made me worried.but i stayed positive.i was determined to solve this problem.

when i went home and changed the spurs,i noticed something.the meshing was off.i was sure that before i ran the car,the mesh was good.so i did the meshing all over again.i also noticed that there was abit of play on the 2-speed shaft.so what i did was to put a shim in between the 1st and 2nd speed gears to eliminate the play(gap).

on the 2nd day of testing.ran 3 tanks and no stripped gears whatsoever (i keep checking the mesh in between runs).what i can say is the 5 is fast.ran with a some friends running a Cap and Xray,no problem for the 5.plenty of grip and traction,smooth and fast out of corners.and I'm running stock settings except for front purple springs.And I'm sure the composite diffs do make a difference here,I'm gonna stick with that.There's a club race next month,will see how the 5 do in race conditions.till then,cheers!
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:21 AM   #1946
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I am assembling my 5 right now and i noticed the 2 speed spur play! Should i put a shim too ? I think that play is from the bearing, maybe use a different bearing with less play?
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:55 AM   #1947
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Still can't say I have seen much of what is being talked about, although it's reading a little Greek to me, language barrier and all that...
But brakes and flex and stripping?, I have looked at mine a fair bit under full brake, can't say it seems to close up the mesh gap on mine enough to do much, and it always seems to flex the point in front of the gears anyway, never really the mesh point.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:21 AM   #1948
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and it always seems to flex the point in front of the gears anyway, never really the mesh point.
thats right. Flex point is in front of the gears, between radioplate mount and engine mount.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:28 AM   #1949
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that's right flex at that point and after a while it will bend at the same point and then you have 2 choices replace chassis or brace it before it gets that bad we put new chassis and brace for easter NSW
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:32 AM   #1950
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i don't mean to be all "i told you so" but i told you so. add a shim between the two gears. make sure that the larger pinion does not hit the larger spur when the clutch is fully engaged. remember, sometimes the larger gear has wobble so accomodate for this movement when shimming.

also, pre tap the holes that the screws go into the spur. use plastic safe threadlock to put the screws in. use an "X" formation when screwing the screws in to avoid wobble from distortion.

also use a long grub screw on the two speed shoes and take out the roller drum to avoid any issues related to the roller drum.

i found that sometimes a larger gap between the 2 speed shoe and the 2 speed housing actually avoids stripping. The stripping does not occur during shifting at WOT, it usually occurs if the shift point occurs too late and you hit the breaks at the same time. the two speed shoes grab the casing, whilst it is still shifting down and causes the stripping sometimes.

use a bigger gap if you are ona small track with a lot of quick up and down shifts and braking points.

do the above, eliminate the gear wobble, space the gears out and don't let it shift too late or shift too close to a corner entry point.
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