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Old 05-23-2010, 10:45 PM   #3256
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Rick,

I really need this one man I just snap 2 front dogbones again today in MOD. Man I got this car dialled in but I can't finish a race I bairly touch a disc then darn thing keep on snapping.
are you snapping dogbones from crashing or not?
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:57 PM   #3257
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Rick,

I really need this one man I just snap 2 front dogbones again today in MOD. Man I got this car dialled in but I can't finish a race I bairly touch a disc then darn thing keep on snapping.
I have a pair for you and will give them to you on Thursday.
I'm sure that between Wolf and myself we will have the solution you need.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:02 PM   #3258
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are you snapping dogbones from crashing or not?
I think he may have too much angle in the steering.
He and I both had this problem but I've made some changes to my setup and changed to the delrin outdrives, now My universals last longer.
RROC will be the real test.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:08 PM   #3259
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Nope one snap from hard breaking on a fast sweeper and the other one Snap when cornering and I clip a disc. The main reason is the dogbone chatters a lot when you corner.

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are you snapping dogbones from crashing or not?
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:13 PM   #3260
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I did a search but did not find a solution to this problem.
Regarding the rear toe in, I have the 1.5 degree KFactoy hub carriers and have the rear pin mounts set at 1.5 deg. The problem is that the left side has 3 deg toe in, as expected but the right only shows 2 degrees.
Has anybody else noticed this problem?
I checked the hub carriers and they seem to be equal and I measured the distance from the rear arms to the front arms and they seem fine as well.
Confusing

I think Wolf has seen this issue before so perhaps I'll find out at the track later this week.

I was able to change the right pin holder to the 2.5 degree setting and this gave me the 3degrees I needed but I'm not very comfortable with having the arms offset.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:15 PM   #3261
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I did turn my steering down I was at 70% and still got tons of steering and it help out some reduced the chattering. I'll see you thursday at NORCAL and I did get the setup sheet from wolf so I'll be working on my car.

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I think he may have too much angle in the steering.
He and I both had this problem but I've made some changes to my setup and changed to the delrin outdrives, now My universals last longer.
RROC will be the real test.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:24 PM   #3262
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Originally Posted by Jochim_18 View Post
I did turn my steering down I was at 70% and still got tons of steering and it help out some reduced the chattering. I'll see you thursday at NORCAL and I did get the setup sheet from wolf so I'll be working on my car.
That's why I didn't race today.
I built up my '09' car the last few days and finally finished it this evening.
I've got most of Wolfs setup on the car now but needs a few tweeks.
I can't believe that I've been running with unequal rear toe all this time. I never checked it since the parts dictate the angle. I kinda wish these cars had pillow ball suspension so all can be adjusted with a few turns of the screws.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:53 PM   #3263
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The issue with the dogbones is hard to nail down. Part of the problem is selective memory (I'm talking about myself here too). We see when the dogbone breaks but we usually don't see where it got its "fatal injury" I often hear from people that: "It broke when I hit the brakes" This is a clue that it was actually hurt some time before. Both the aluminum and steel dogbones will bend on impact (or torque in one direction). You won't realize it but the dogbone just died. As soon as it bends back it will break. That's why you can smack the wall or tangle with another car under power but nothing breaks. It won;t actually let go until it is stressed in the oposite direction. TM quietly made a change in the steel dogbones to strengthen them. The CVD pivot cylinder (I just made that name up because TM calls it a pin) was reduced in diameter from 3.5mm to about 3.2mm. This leaves more "meat" on the dogbone at the point where it usually fractures. I honestly have never broken a dogbone. But some people go through a bunch of them. Part of it is my driving style (very conservative... another word for slow) but the other is that I set the car up for a lot of steering so that I don't have to dial in as much steering angle. Part of the problem is that the E4 has more steering angle available than most cars. The downside is that it isn't really available for use or you will hammer the axles on hard turns. This is especially true in mod because you have almost 1 HP to apply to those little shafts. If you have a setup system that allows you to measure steering angle derees it would be interesting to know what that number is.

As for the difference in the rear toe angle it could be a bent pin or a deformed pivot cup (503120). The plastic piece can be damaged after repeated hits. It also could be the 1.5 to 2.5 holder for the cups. If it was improperly machined it could cause a problem. I have seen this issue with the Kfactory part but never the stock part. The way I found out about this was half way down the straight the car would drift to one side. No matter what I did to check the trim it would always steer in one direction at speed. I replaced bearings and swapped parts but it would always do it. What I think is happening is that once the car gets past a certain speed the rear wing produces so much downforce that the rear starts to steer the car. I will bring extra parts on Thursday so that we can isolate the issue.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:40 PM   #3264
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Originally Posted by Wolf Hobbies View Post
The issue with the dogbones is hard to nail down. Part of the problem is selective memory (I'm talking about myself here too). We see when the dogbone breaks but we usually don't see where it got its "fatal injury" I often hear from people that: "It broke when I hit the brakes" This is a clue that it was actually hurt some time before. Both the aluminum and steel dogbones will bend on impact (or torque in one direction). You won't realize it but the dogbone just died. As soon as it bends back it will break. That's why you can smack the wall or tangle with another car under power but nothing breaks. It won;t actually let go until it is stressed in the oposite direction. TM quietly made a change in the steel dogbones to strengthen them. The CVD pivot cylinder (I just made that name up because TM calls it a pin) was reduced in diameter from 3.5mm to about 3.2mm. This leaves more "meat" on the dogbone at the point where it usually fractures. I honestly have never broken a dogbone. But some people go through a bunch of them. Part of it is my driving style (very conservative... another word for slow) but the other is that I set the car up for a lot of steering so that I don't have to dial in as much steering angle. Part of the problem is that the E4 has more steering angle available than most cars. The downside is that it isn't really available for use or you will hammer the axles on hard turns. This is especially true in mod because you have almost 1 HP to apply to those little shafts. If you have a setup system that allows you to measure steering angle derees it would be interesting to know what that number is.

As for the difference in the rear toe angle it could be a bent pin or a deformed pivot cup (503120). The plastic piece can be damaged after repeated hits. It also could be the 1.5 to 2.5 holder for the cups. If it was improperly machined it could cause a problem. I have seen this issue with the Kfactory part but never the stock part. The way I found out about this was half way down the straight the car would drift to one side. No matter what I did to check the trim it would always steer in one direction at speed. I replaced bearings and swapped parts but it would always do it. What I think is happening is that once the car gets past a certain speed the rear wing produces so much downforce that the rear starts to steer the car. I will bring extra parts on Thursday so that we can isolate the issue.
Thanks for the input Wolf.

The pivot cups were the first to go since I had brand new spares and installed the alum pivot balls as well since I've been holding onto them for the rebuild.
It looks like I need to go over the rear end with a fine tooth caliper.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:40 PM   #3265
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My left and right steering angle throw is about 30 degree. You can measure the steering throw really easy by turning the wheel to full lock left or right using your toe In/out guage...
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:13 PM   #3266
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Originally Posted by Jochim_18 View Post
My left and right steering angle throw is about 30 degree. You can measure the steering throw really easy by turning the wheel to full lock left or right using your toe In/out guage...
We were using the Alu dog bones and as our performance and traction improved we started snapping them.. several of them regularly. Both front and rear.

We then switched to the Steel doggies, and they devoured our rear metal outdrives. We now use the lightweight plastic rear outdrives and steel dogbones front and rear and all seems a lot better.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:52 PM   #3267
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FYI:

You should NEVER use the steel dogbones with the aluminum outdrives. The ONLY axles compatible with the al outdrives are the 503151 aluminum shafts with the plastic pin covers. We work very hard to disuade peolpe from buying the aluminum outdrives. The weight difference is negligable and they die a quick death if the pin cover is damaged. I would like to stop carrying the al outdrives but some of our customers demand them so we try to talk them out of it but if they insist we will sell them.

We will be testing the K2146 and K2147 machined delrin outdrives this week during practice. We will publish the results
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:39 AM   #3268
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Default cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Hobbies View Post
FYI:

You should NEVER use the steel dogbones with the aluminum outdrives. The ONLY axles compatible with the al outdrives are the 503151 aluminum shafts with the plastic pin covers. We work very hard to disuade peolpe from buying the aluminum outdrives. The weight difference is negligable and they die a quick death if the pin cover is damaged. I would like to stop carrying the al outdrives but some of our customers demand them so we try to talk them out of it but if they insist we will sell them.

We will be testing the K2146 and K2147 machined delrin outdrives this week during practice. We will publish the results
I was using up what I had left and now using steel and plastic outdrives. So far seems a lot better (for us), mind you our alloy outdrives were perfect with the bladed dogbones
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:47 AM   #3269
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Default Upper rear bulkhead breakage

Recently I upgraded my JS to aluminum bulkheads and graphite shock towers. After doing so I have broken two rear plastic upper bulkheads. It seems like the upper bulkhead is somewhat weak because it is rather thin and flexible.

When I had plastic bulkheads and shock towers there wasn't any problems with the upper bulkhead. I guess now with the harder parts that sandwich the upper bulkhead in between, it must be taking on more stress hence the breakage.

I've looked at the aluminum upper rear bulkhead but the price. is out of my budget for now. Does anyone know of some harder nylon bulkheads that are stronger than stock that is more economical than the aluminum ones?
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #3270
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Default Alu doggies..

FYI..

The Alu dogbones that we broke all broke in the same place. At the junction of the dogbone's CV ball.
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