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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-12-2016, 07:46 PM   #3931
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Why doesn't TLR make the HRC front hinge pin brace in plastic as well as aluminum?
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:21 PM   #3932
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Originally Posted by MNiceGuy View Post
At any rate, TLR is in a tricky situation here. On high-traction surfaces, the original car is good but the laydown is the one you want.
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The only place I think a laydown is a big difference for a guy like me is on carpet... I speak from experience! It really transformed me from a bottom of the A-main or even getting the bump from B guy into a podium contender at my local carpet track.
I agree, I seen it at our carpet track. Now I am way back in the pack since I am one of the few remaining with a standup transmission.

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The old laydown kits aren't sold out everywhere yet. Go grab one!
Maybe I am too stingy, but I still do not consider $180 an economical option for me. For now I am considering other options...

Does anyone know if there are any 3D printable lay-down transmissions? I know there are some for the B5 on shapeways, but couldn't find any for the 22 3.0. If not, I am going to try to design my own lay-down transmission that can be 3D printed at an economical price.

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How long before we see transmissions mounted on some kind of "eccentric ring", allowing you to infinitely adjust the height and angle between the diff and the motor.

VDT: Variable-Dialed-Transmission
I like your acronym VDT, I also thought it would be cool to have a transmission that could "transform" from a lay-down to a stand-up to make it a bit easier to go from carpet to loose dirt.
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:24 PM   #3933
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I'd say its more in the .2-.3 range of difference... maybe more of less depending on driving skill and styles. I do think that laydown is probably more likely to be an improvement in spec classes over mod classes, but the mod drivers are also more likely to be the ones with the skill to pull the extra time out of a laydown. Without knowing your exact skill and track grip/layout type, it for sure makes it hard to say which way I would recommend.
Thanks Frank. I know it's difficult to give a recommendation like this, but I think it helps. Oh, and my skill is not that high: got into this about two years ago, run on carpet at our monthly club race, and I've ran on clay about 6 times. I'm mixing it up with guys that have been doing this for quite a while, if not their whole lives, but I can't touch one or two of the young fast guys when they are on. Well, one of them I can't even touch when he's having a bad day! When I do well, it's consistency not speed. Even if I podium, usually the next 3 or 4 after me have faster laps and sometimes a faster top 5 laps.
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:19 PM   #3934
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I have the exotek laydown and brass hinge pin brace. Just ordered xfactory front tower shock mount. Wondering what else people are running parts wise. Are the rear hubs different with the losi laydown kit? What's different about them and is there a part number?
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:30 PM   #3935
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
Thanks Frank. I know it's difficult to give a recommendation like this, but I think it helps. Oh, and my skill is not that high: got into this about two years ago, run on carpet at our monthly club race, and I've ran on clay about 6 times. I'm mixing it up with guys that have been doing this for quite a while, if not their whole lives, but I can't touch one or two of the young fast guys when they are on. Well, one of them I can't even touch when he's having a bad day! When I do well, it's consistency not speed. Even if I podium, usually the next 3 or 4 after me have faster laps and sometimes a faster top 5 laps.
Honestly, there is no substitution for track time. I see guys all the time with big wallets buy the newest, sweetest car money can buy and they still aren't good. On the flip side we have an older gent running a tlr 2.0 and runs top five in 17.5 every weekend cause he is solid. Never lays down blistering fast laps but is on pace and never crashes. You wanna win, run 6 min practice sessions at pace without crashing and there will only be a select few that can touch you.
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:51 AM   #3936
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I have the exotek laydown and brass hinge pin brace. Just ordered xfactory front tower shock mount. Wondering what else people are running parts wise. Are the rear hubs different with the losi laydown kit? What's different about them and is there a part number?
They won't improve much if any with the exotek transmission.
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:38 AM   #3937
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I agree, I seen it at our carpet track. Now I am way back in the pack since I am one of the few remaining with a standup transmission.



Maybe I am too stingy, but I still do not consider $180 an economical option for me. For now I am considering other options...

Does anyone know if there are any 3D printable lay-down transmissions? I know there are some for the B5 on shapeways, but couldn't find any for the 22 3.0. If not, I am going to try to design my own lay-down transmission that can be 3D printed at an economical price.



I like your acronym VDT, I also thought it would be cool to have a transmission that could "transform" from a lay-down to a stand-up to make it a bit easier to go from carpet to loose dirt.
Honestly, if you are running carpet, I really recommend the laydown. I know it's steep, but you do get a lot for your money and the original ("carpet") laydown kits will be gone soon. But if that's just too much for you, then I'd go with the Exotek unless you are really just into making your own stuff. The Exotek is significantly cheaper. In the end though, I don't think you'll be able to come up with something that works as well as the TLR laydown, though you may get close. It's all about whether you would rather pay and play now, or enjoy the challenge of doing your own thing and getting reward out of that!
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:43 AM   #3938
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Originally Posted by TimmE View Post
Why doesn't TLR make the HRC front hinge pin brace in plastic as well as aluminum?
It was a tuning option at the time, and it made sense to avoid the cost of molding the part, and get it out sooner as a machined option.

But times change too
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:24 AM   #3939
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
Honestly, if you are running carpet, I really recommend the laydown. I know it's steep, but you do get a lot for your money and the original ("carpet") laydown kits will be gone soon. But if that's just too much for you, then I'd go with the Exotek unless you are really just into making your own stuff. The Exotek is significantly cheaper. In the end though, I don't think you'll be able to come up with something that works as well as the TLR laydown, though you may get close. It's all about whether you would rather pay and play now, or enjoy the challenge of doing your own thing and getting reward out of that!
I remember when the kit first came out and I saw that MSRP. As someone with general reckless RC spending, even I gasped a little.

Really though you do get a lot of goodies in those kits and those goodies are of very high quality.

So long as you're accomplished enough to run smooth, somewhat consistent laps, a properly set up laydown car is going to be faster and, in my experience, easier to drive.
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:41 PM   #3940
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Frank, when is the release date for the new 22 SR 3.0
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:36 PM   #3941
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They won't improve much if any with the exotek transmission.
What's different about them?
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:06 PM   #3942
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What's different about them?

From what I've read. The exotic tranny is similar to the tlr dirt laydown Trans, which uses the standard hubs. That's why it would be best to stay with the standard hubs.

I don't run a laydown so I can't really go into detail why. Something to do with the height of the diff.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:35 PM   #3943
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Frank, when is the release date for the new 22 SR 3.0
Any day now, hopefully tomorrow.
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Old 12-14-2016, 12:43 AM   #3944
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Any day now, hopefully tomorrow.
That's What I was told at my LHS today...then maybe I have it by the weekend...or next weekend. Can't wait

So since we race Carpet Spec 17.5 here, I should be looking to get a discontinued laydown kit, but the spec racer has a chassis that is lightened, so by going that route I would be loosing on a lightened chassis, correct?

Any chance a lightened laydown conversion kit is in the works? or maybe the chassis in the spec is setup so it can use the laydown transmission from the get go?
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:08 AM   #3945
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Frank, any idea on when the new dirt laydown conversion kits will be available?
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