Ron, Your so aggressive!!!LOL Pop the top of a cold one and take a deep breath!!:lol:

Agreed +1 ;)

This is my toy..;)Attachment 726268I would like to say thanks to all the advise I recieved, was very helpfull, cant wait till the track opens, here, and do the final tune on the track..

Thanks Dell

Hi guys! Just thought I'd chime in quick. The winter is pretty much over with up here, and I just about went nuts with all the school work this year, but nitro season is coming! Still snow on the outdoor track yet, but both B5's I have broken in fired right up within 3 seconds, after a rebuild from last year! Cant wait to get the fleet going this year. !!!WERKS 4 life!!!

Brad Shearer

Lol, na I'm not agressive! Just forgot to use emoticons:). Been pulling 10-12 hour days since I got back from PNB trying to catch up on things lol. Got a lot of neat stuff in the werks! :nod:

Put some of that neat stuff in the box with my 2058 when you send it and I'll be happy to test it out for ya. :eek::D

Hi, how lean you can run an engine really depends on a lot of things but the first thing to keep in mind is that if your engine is running too lean it will tell you! If your engine is too lean you will not see any smoke, your engine will run on over jumps or lean bog. If you are not seeing any of that then you are ok. Right now you are running between 90 to 100C which is 194-214F, so right now this is still relatively rich especially on lower nitro content fuel which tends to run hotter. At full race tune with that nitro content fuel I would shoot for a temp between 230-250F or 110-121C on a fully broken in engine. So you still have a ways to go as far as leaning the motor is concerned.

So I would start off by leaning the HS a few more hours and keep an eye on the smoke trail, how thick it is and where you are seeing it. At WOT you want to see a faint trail when running Byrons. If you are running in that temp range and not seeing any smoke on the top that is an indication that your HS is too lean so go back and richen the HS an hour or two. Then watch the smoke on the bottom end (half throttle and below) in the infield section. If you are seeing dense (really thick) smoke when running in that throttle range this is an indication of having a rich bottom end (LS needle). So now go back and lean the LS needle an hour or two (the richening of the HS and then leaning the LS will keep the temperature stable) then adjust the idle stop screw to bring the idle back down to a normal level. This should then put you roughly in the range of an ideal tune.

As far as run time is concerned I'm not sure if you are running buggy or truggy but in buggy your should be getting right around 10 minutes and in truggy you should be getting over 11 without any real issues. Let me know if you have any questions!

Ron

The thing to keep in mind with the B5 is that the engine produces so much power that it is often easy to run the engine rich and not even really notice it lol. Not that this is a bad thing but running rich will affect run time. You mentioned that initially you could not finish a 7 minute head and then that you went back and leaned the top end 5 minuted (we normally use the term hours when discussing adjustments to needles).

Ron,

Apprecite your guide, loud and clear.
and thanks for your PM

Not a problem, I'm here to help you guys out! Let me know how things work out once you get a chance to give the stuff a try.

Regards,

Ron

I think I was not clear on what I was trying to determine.

I understand that that you start with an air gap of about 2.5 mm during the break in process and as you continue to do heat cycles you slowly reduce the air gap. I also understand the relationship of how far out the LS needle comes out before the HS takes over.

I guess what I am trying to understand is how the heck can you tell, once you have determined how far you can pull the trigger for the LS needle to come out of the spray bar, that the air gap is down to 1mm or so?

For exmple let's say I determine that I can pull the trigger to 1/4 pull before the LS comes out of the spray bar. I pop the air filter back on the carb and start doing my heat cycles. During the process I can continually pull the trigger a 1/4 pull and not exceed an excessive speed for break in.

Essentially I will never really know when the air gap is down to 1mm because I can always pull the trigger a 1/4 pull during break in.

Does this make sense? Am I just crazy (don't ask my wife that :lol:)? I feel so foolish asking but this makes no sense to me. The only way I can tell if the airgap has been reduced down to 1mm or so is by continually pulling the airfilter off after each heat cycle.

The idle gap is an interesting and often overlooked setting. Too large of an idle gap will produce a 'false dropping idle' that will drop after sitting at idle, even while you lean it out till it races -- an hour richer than too lean, where the motor races, makes the motor load up and idle down. It can be very frustrating. It usually results in closing the idle gap after you think you have the low speed needle set decently (even though it is way too lean), and then you have a motor that seems to idle, but then *poof*, dies instantly.

For me, what I do to find the right idle gap, is to first ensure the HSN is set to where it at least cleans out the motor good on the starter box, then blip the throttle enough to clean it out (around a second), then hit the brakes. The instant your motor comes back to idle is what your 'true idle speed' is, assuming you weren't lean on the high speed needle.

Assuming your HSN is set somewhere remotely in the ballpark, this process tells you two things: Where your true idle is set at and if your LSN is rich/lean. First, adjust the idle stop so that it comes to a nice low idle. It may die after a few moments, but that is fine, that just means your LSN is rich. This should put your idle gap around .75 - 1mm. At this point, after blipping the throttle and hitting the brakes, if your idle slows and the motor then dies, lean the bottom until it idles smoothly as your LSN is rich. If your motor instead starts to rev up after a moment or two after returning to idle, it is lean. The proper setting is somewhere between where it starts to race and where it wants to die -- there is a small amount of wiggle room, but remember the closer you get to the lean side, the more likely you will have a motor that runs on over jumps or in corners because it leaned out a little with a change in conditions.

If you have no idea where you needles should be after break-in, try flush all around initially. If you make large changes to the HSN, a change to the LSN will be required.

Wayne

Your making some sense :ha: But the thing that you have to remember is that the air gap (set with the idle speed) and the point that the LS needle leaves the spray bar are completely separate things and in the context of breaking in your engine I'm not seeing how it matters that you know what the air gap is after each run (and you will note that I did not say each heat cycle because in my break in method I do not heat cycle the engine;-).

In my break in instructions I talk about setting the air gap with the idle stop screw to roughly 2.5mm, then richening the LS needle (to get a smooth, steady idle) and putting around at a few mph for the second tank. Then for the next tank lean the LS needle an hour or two fire up the engine (now your idle speed will be higher) so you reduce your idle gap (back out the idle stop screw) slightly until your idle comes back down to a smooth and steady point then run the tank a little bit faster. Next tank lean the LS a few hours, back out idle stop screw to bring idle down, run the tank a little faster etc. etc. Keep on repeating until the point that you are going fast enough to pull the LS out of the spray bar which you checked to see when you were setting up the linkage initially (roughly 1/4 to 1/3rd way of the throttle open).

Once you reach the point that your LS needle is completely out of the spray bar any adjustments you make to the LS needle is not relevant and does nothing because the tip of the needle is no longer in the spray bar so it is no longer effecting the fuel delivery. Basically at this point you can completely forget about the LS needle which is why I say to leave it alone. At this point to make things simple just drop the air gap (opening on the slide with the idle stop screw) down to roughly .5mm, fire the engine up, blip the throttle a few times, allow to come back down to idle and adjust the LS to get a smooth, steady idle. Once you have done this forget about the idle stop screw for good.

Now you move on to the HS needle (which at the start of break in we set at flush). Fill tank, run 2-3mph faster than the last tank that you ran. Next tank lean HS 1-2 hours, fire up engine, HS needle affects overall fuel delivery so leaning the HS will also in essence lean the LS so idle will now be higher, again do not touch idle stop screw but rather richen LS a couple hours until idle becomes smooth and steady, run 2-3 hours faster than last tank. Next tank lean HS 1-2 hours, fire up engine, richen LS 1-2 hours to bring idle back down, drive 2-3 mph faster. Repeat until you start getting to the point where you are close to race tune, then just roll on roll off on the straight for 4-5 tanks and you should be done with break in. So on final tank adjust (lean) the HS needle so that you see the top end performance and/or rough temp that you are looking for, again leaning HS also leans LS so your idle will be up, richen the LS a bit until you have a smooth, steady idle and now you are completely done and you are ready to fully enjoy the performance and power of your Werks engine :nod:

I hope that this clarifies things a little bit better!

Ron

Does any one know if the protek bearing will fit the werks B5? The size is 14.2x25.3x6mm and the werks bearing is 14.2x25.3. The only thing I'm not sure about is the x6 at the end of the protek bearing. Never mind I found the answer I was looking for. Thanks any way.

Well this still seems unclear (bear with me on this).

Are you saying that each tank I run that I should only pull the throtle 1/4(or whatever the distance is for the LS to be out of the spray bar) to keep the LS needle in the spray bar? I mean I can theoreticaly use a full pull on the throtle for each break in tank and it will not go very fast do to the rich HS setting.

I can't be the only person who thinks this is more confusing than it should be, right? Using your method on my first Werks B5 went perfectly fine but I completely disregarded this step in question and continually pulled the air filter to observe the air gap until it was down to a .5mm before I started messing with the HS needle.

I have a B6 I am going to break in this weekend and I want to really get it right this time.

Ron maybe you could PM me and we could exchange numbers so I don't hijack this thread any more with my nonsense :lol:

On my Opinion Maybe i think the video that Mo was supposed to do would help him understand the break in better.