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The New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine
2 Attachment(s)
Hello guys, after months of testing I'm happy to say that we are finally starting to ship our new TL21B5 engine today! The B5 is our new 5 port racing engine design. Kortz has been running final specification pre-production engines for the last couple of months for a final shake down under actual racing conditions and has put his seal of approval on it!
This is exactly the same engines that Jeremy used to take 2nd at the RC Pro Series Australia race as well as make the mains at last months ROAR Buggy Nats! Actually to be specific, Kortz used 1 single engine to run both the 5 day Pro Series Australia race, the 5 day ROAR Nats as well as 5 or 6 Hot Rod Hobbies races in between! He is still racing the same engine lol but the fact that (at his level of racing) he chose to run a single engine (without re-building) at 2 races of that level plus a bunch of club racing should say something about the build quality and longevity of the engine. Specifications on the B5 are as follows: Stroke = 16.50mm Bore = 16.30mm RPM RANGE = 3000 to 39000 Output = 2.6ps at 33000 rpm Sleeve chrome plated five ports Piston machined out of high-silicon content aluminum alloy Double bushed knife edged connecting rod made with special 7075T6 aluminum alloy Composite 2 needle carburetor with adjustable venturi (7mm stock). CNC machined, lightened, low CG cooling head design The performance of this engine is awesome and for those that have ran our B7-Pro before it will feel like the power band has been shifted down slightly. It still provides the same extremely smooth, linear power band but with more bottom end and slightly less top end (which the B7-Pro has an abundance of lol!). We have also significantly increased the fuel efficiency of the B5 which is now a 10 minute + engine! Most importantly for you the consumer I think is that we have taken a very aggressive approach to the pricing on this engine. I started working on the design of this engine a little over a year ago for two reason. First I was looking at the market being inundated with low cost and unfortunately often (in my opinion) questionable quality Asian made engines. I felt that we could make something better performing and of significantly higher quality working with our existing Italian manufacturing partners. Secondly I could tell the direction that the economy was going in and frankly we all need to make our bucks go a whole lot further nowadays. From these thoughts has come the B5, the first low cost Italian racing engine that is already race proven at the Nats and RC Pro Series! :D A-main will be getting a shipment of these in tomorrow and you can find information on their site about them here: http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ine-Turbo-Plug A couple of quick photos follows, let me know if you guys have any questions! Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing ************************************************** ********************************************* At the suggestion of one of the readers of this forum I'm going to be sticking important info/posts below so that they are easy to find. If you know of a post that you feel should be here, let me know! ************************************************** ********************************************** Quote: Originally Posted by rc_cal View Post hi rons, i just back order mine... i will put this engine in my rc8t....some question here: 1) what is the great running temp for werks engine ? 2) what is the recomended way to break in ( i would be very happy if you let me know in detail)? 3) what other brand venturi insert compatible ? 4) i have pipe 2047,3023, jp3, jp4, which one is the best for this engine ? maybe you can recomend 1... Hello rc_cal, Thanks for back ordering one of the B5's! Regarding your questions: 1) Normal operating temperature would be between 210 to around 250'ish degree's. I'm quoting a 40+ degree operating window because there are again quite a range of variable that can affect this i.e. weather, plug choice, pipe, track size and most definitely fuel choice. Having said that temp is secondary! Always tune your engine to get the performance that you are looking for while making sure that you are still blowing some smoke. No smoke = you are going to have a problem. Once you get your engine set with the performance that you like, take the temp and then you can use that as a reference point down the road to quickly set your motor in the range that you lik. 2) The infamous break in question lol! We're a racing company and make engines for racers, what I have found is that talk to 4 different racers and you will get 4 different opinions on how to do it lol! You wanted a detailed answer though so let the book writing begin lol! The way that I normal do it is to set the HS needle to flush with the end of the housing and then with the air filter off, fire it up and leave it on the box. Blip the throttle a couple of times and then let it come back down to idle. Then I start to screw in the idle stop screw until I see around a 2-2.5mm air gap (opening on the slide) ******* Update 5/27/10 I'm changing this a little as we are now all using the 2010 aluminum carb. The easiest way that I have found to set the air gap mentioned above rather than try to measure 2-2.5mm etc. is just to turn the idle stop screw in 1 1/2 complete turns in from flush. This I have found is a little less than the maximum that the slide can be opened with this screw and not bind******* When you are doing this your idle speed will start to increase so you are basically going to have to start richening your low speed needle a couple of hours (until you get a smooth, steady idle) then do a couple of hours on the idle stop screw and back and forth until you see the 2-2.5mm+ air gap (***update from above, keep screwing in the idle stop screw 1-2 hours at a time and then richening your ls a bit to bring the idle back down, repeating this until you hit the 1.5 turns in from flush on the idle stop screw as indicated above****) that I mentioned. As this is a two stroke engine, performance is always dictated by air/fuel ratio and as we are now talking about the low speed needle (remember we set the HS needle flush with the end of the housing and there is no need to touch this again for a while) if you have too much fuel (rich setting) you will have a low idle, if you have too little fuel (lean setting) you will have a high idle). It basically is a no brainer if you are too rich or lean because your engine will tell you! Once you get a steady idle going with the large air gap that I mentioned (large air gap means a lot of air flow, to get a steady idle means that to compensate you will have to dump a lot of fuel through the engine= guaranteed rich condition and you can not damage your engine right off the bat by being too lean) I idle it through the first tank on the box. This is done basically to pump a lot of oil through the engine to flush out any metal particles in the engine and remove the minute bit of metal particles that are always released initially during break in. Now with the radio gear on, engine off and the slide closed look down the throat of the carb and slowly start to pull the trigger. Take note of the how much throttle you are giving at the point that the low speed needle (which is connected to the slide) comes out of the spray bar (the hollow tube) on the opposite side of the carb. We will use this as a referance for tuning later on but basically what is happening is that during the range of throttle movement that the low speed needle is embedded in the spray bar, the low speed needle will affect fuel delivery (for the purist we both know that this is a simplified explanation as the fuel first travels through the HS needle circuit before going to the LS but since we already set the HS to a rich setting and will not be touching this for a while it's pretty much a mute point). At the point that it is out of the spray bar the fuel delivery (or tune) is affected solely by the high speed needle. Then I re-install the air filter, fire up the engine and toss it on the ground. Start slowly doing figure eights at say 3 to 4 mph until you run through the tank. Then for the next tank i fire the engine up again and back the idle screw out a couple of hours. You will immediately hear the idle speed start to reduce, to compensate for this I then lean the low speed needle a couple of hours until I again hear a smooth steady idle. Once I have this I then start doing figure eights again but now a little bit fasted until the tank is empty. Next tank fire up the engine, back idle screw out a couple of hours, lean LS needle a couple of hours, do figure eights a couple of mph faster. Basically what I'm doing with this system is slowly reducing the amount of lubricant being pumped through the engine while at the same time slowly increasing the amount of load that is being put on the engine. This I keep on repeating until I get to approximately the point that I'm pulling the trigger far enough that I know the low speed needle is being pulled out of the spray bar (remember we checked this initially while we had the air filter off) at which point your air gap (the amount the slide is help open by the idle stop screw) will have been reduced to aprox. 1-1.5mm. ****Edit 07/19/11. Once you have reached the point that you are going faster than roughly 1/2 throttle as mentioned above you are running on the HS needle which you will start tuning below. Before you do that make one final adjustment to you idle stop screw/LS needle by setting your air gap (amount that the slide is held open by the idle stop screw) to roughly 0.5mm with the reducer out. Once you have set the gap to 0.5mm, fire the engine up blipping the throttle on the box, your LS will now be rich which you will see by a low idle speed, lean the LS a few hours, blipp throttle and allow to come back to idle. Keep adjusting the LS (leaner (in) for a faster idle, richer (out) for a slower idle until you get a smooth, steady idle. By setting the air gap to 0.5mm reducer out you have now set this to the appropriate point for final tuning and you will not touch the idle gap anymore.***** Once we get to this point we now need to be concerned about the HS needle. What I then do is re-fuel and fire the vehicle up, putt it around for a couple of minutes to heat saturate the case and the chassis and then do a quick high speed run around the track (do not hold it maxed out for a long time on the straight, this is bad). I pull it back in, temp the engine and adjust the HS needle so that I see right around 200 degrees. Then let the engine drop back down to idle and see how the idle performance looks. If the idle is now fast (it has now increased) this means that you need to richen your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine, there is too little fuel flowing into it = lean condition) don't touch the idle screw just the LS needle. If the idle is low this means that you now need to lean your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine there is too much fuel flowing into it = rich condition) again don't touch the idle screw. Then I toss the car on the track for another 6-8 tanks with the engine running around 200 degrees as explained above running close to race speed but rolling off the throttle mid way down the straight. Once I'm done with the 6-8 tanks doing this we would have run around 12 to 15 tanks total through the engine in all of the steps above. I now consider the engine pretty much broken in and I'll get close to race tune on the HS setting the engine around 220 degrees. Again check to see what happens to the idle speed and adjust your low speed needle to compensate if it is high or low. Run a further 6 or so tanks through the engine driving it as you normally would and you are good to go to full race tune which will be in the 220 to say mid 240'ish range and I would consider the engine broken in and ready to be pounded on. A long explanation but using this system helps avoid one of the most common mistakes faced by newer tuners which is setting their low speed needle too lean because they have too little air gap (the carb is hardly open help open by the idle stop screw so to compensate they set the LS needle super lean easily causing damage to the engine). I also like to use this system because I often end up tuning and/or breaking in a lot of different types of engine with people. Using this system i never even worry about knowing what the factory needle settings are or anything along those lines. I just set the HS and LS flush with the end of the housing, set the air gap so that the slide is open 1-1.5mm and fire the engine up. How it idles immediately tells me if the LS needle is too lean or rich so I set this, then check the temp after a high speed run, adjust the HS needle to be in the 220'ish range, check idle speed and set LS so that it is smooth and steady and the engine is ready to go. Takes about 4-5 minutes total on an engine that could be completely out of whack and I've never even seen or ran before lol! 3) Ours, Sirio and possibly some of the Orion ones I would think. 4) Again we did all of our testing with our own pipes i.e. the 2013 and 3014 (3 chamber pipe) but I would start out with the JP3 initially and then test the others. The JP 4 and I'm assuming the 3023 are 3 chamber pipes so these will probably be more restrictive slightly reducing the power band but increasing the fuel economy so depending on what organization you run under (i.e. if use of these pipes is required) and if you feel the engine is over powered for you these can also be a worth while item to test. Hope this helps! Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing ************************************************** *********************************************** Quote: Originally Posted by sjracing View Post Thanks..I guess I am just confused on where all the adjustment screws are located that Ron mentions... Hello sjracing, first off thank you for picking up one of our engines! I'm sorry that your request for info is kinda getting lost in between all of this drama lol! In any case in regards to break in please take a look at my break in instructions, this is a really simply system to use and is especially good to use if you are newer to tuning these type of engines as it is virtually impossible to run the engine too lean, which is important during break in! Now you mentioned that your experience was in running nitro planes, so you have experience tuning engines. As you mentioned planes are a little different as they only have a HS needle and of course they are cooled by the prop so temps are not so big a factor. In any case with your carbs we have 3 basic adjustments, that is the HS needle that you are familiar with which sticks up from the top of the carb on a brass post, we have the LS needle which is the one on the end of the slide right where your servo linkage connects and we have the idle stop screw which is the screw that sits at a 45 degree angle right behind the carb venturi (if you look at the engine from the top). These are the three screws that you will be adjusting to break in your engine. The way that you have to look at these is that the HS affects the overall fuel delivery (across the entire range of throttle movement), the LS affects the initial fuel delivery (from roughly throttle closed to about half way open) and the idle stop screw only dictates the minimum amount of air that the engine will get or basically how far you can close the throttle. At half throttle and above you would basically tune the engine the same way that you would your airplane motor. But at half throttle and below look at the LS and the HS kinda like your garden hose and the tap. The HS needle is the tap at the wall, if you turn it wide open you can move a lot of water through the hose (or in our case fuel through the carb) but if your nosle on the end of the hose (LS needle) is barely open you will only have a little bit of water going through it. So when breaking in your engine you want to have a lot of air and fuel flowing through your engine (you want the engine to be rich). The way that you do this is set your idle stop screw pretty far open (so you have a lot of air coming into the engine) and then you have your needles open really far so that you have a lot of fuel coming through the engine also. Following my instructions each tank you lean the needles slightly, this means that you then have less fuel coming into the engine so you naturally need to reduce the amount of air also which is why you reduce the air gap using the idle stop screw. Take a look at my instructions with the engine actually in your hand and I think that it will start to make a little sense. Keep in mind that while doing this your engine will be telling you what needs to happen by what it is doing so once you start the system it really makes sense. Give it a shot and while your doing it if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask! Regards, Ron |
Great Price! :nod:
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The engine looks really nice and sounds like a great deal. What pipe is recommended for it?
Thanks Adam |
Dang and i was hoping for that sweet looking black case.
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Originally Posted by Cory Kerber
(Post 6190743)
Great Price! :nod:
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Originally Posted by Adim_X
(Post 6190773)
The engine looks really nice and sounds like a great deal. What pipe is recommended for it?
Thanks Adam |
still sirio based?
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Originally Posted by ericsp2
(Post 6190857)
Dang and i was hoping for that sweet looking black case.
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When will the B5Pro become available?
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Originally Posted by san.
(Post 6191214)
When will the B5Pro become available?
To be upfront with you I'm not sure what else we could do to the engine to make it perform better. Traditionally our pro versions have had all of the additional custom mod'ish type of features like a lightened cooling head (already on the B5), additional machining on the sleeve i.e. tear dropping of the transfer ports etc (already on the B5), ceramic rear bearing (guess this could be added) and maybe a couple of other things. Having said that though you have to understand that the B5 project was intended to produce a solid, high quality, truly pro-level racing engine that we could sell at an affordable price point (and I'm happy to say that the engine has already proven that it can easily run at any pro level event and I'm not quite sure if anyone is ever going to be able to sell a similar quality Italian racing engine for less). We did not do this by reducing features, using basic parts or cheaping out on materials that they are made from, we did this by increasing efficiency and sharing some common parts between the engines which allows us to produce them in larger batch sizes which decreases the per unit cost. The B5 uses the exact same quality of materials and level of machining on it's parts as you would find on any of our other engines because it uses quite a few parts from our other engines! All that I'm doing is passing on the costs savings to you guys instead of sticking it in my pocket like most other companies would do. Honestly for the consumer this is a win, win situation. You are getting an engine that has the build quality and performance equal to any other higher end Italian engine at or I believe even below that of the lower price & quality Taiwan stuff like Go's and what not. It's really a sweet deal! Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
Great price for a engine thats made in italy. I will be geting one.
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just saw this...
"add to wishlist" :D |
Good looking product Ron. Nice to see an engine manufacturer that has the racer's interest in mind. I hope everyone rewards that by buying one of these from you.
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a race proven motor for under 200 bucks???? :nod:
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I think I know what will be in my truggy next season.
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motor
The motor looks great and I like 5 port motors but I am going to wait to see if the fuel milage is in the 10's like you say. I was watching the Live RC Fuel Nationals broadcast and when they interviewed Kortz he said he can just get 9 so that means he has to pit at 8 and Drake was going over 12 with the +4 and that is one less pit than Kortz at the Australia race. I know his +4 is not stock but I see them go 10+ all the time. If this new 5 port will go 10+ I will get one because Werks has always been good to me.
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Originally Posted by Davidka
(Post 6191677)
Good looking product Ron. Nice to see an engine manufacturer that has the racer's interest in mind. I hope everyone rewards that by buying one of these from you.
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I can not wait to get my hands on one of these motors I have been wanting another 5 port I was thinking of going with the RB 5 port but I would rather have the werks if it will be out when they stay.
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Originally Posted by smittyusmc
(Post 6192350)
I can not wait to get my hands on one of these motors I have been wanting another 5 port I was thinking of going with the RB 5 port but I would rather have the werks if it will be out when they stay.
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Originally Posted by Werks
(Post 6192347)
Thanks Davidka, pricing this engine this low and choosing to compress my margin so much is probably one of the biggest gambles that I have taken since I started making engines. Time will tell if it pays off but from purely a performance stand point I can tell you that I'm 100% happy with the design of the engine and I think that everyone else will be too...
Great move Ron:nod:, wish you every success with the pricing strategy. :nod: |
Originally Posted by Marcus Falconie
(Post 6192303)
The motor looks great and I like 5 port motors but I am going to wait to see if the fuel milage is in the 10's like you say. I was watching the Live RC Fuel Nationals broadcast and when they interviewed Kortz he said he can just get 9 so that means he has to pit at 8 and Drake was going over 12 with the +4 and that is one less pit than Kortz at the Australia race. I know his +4 is not stock but I see them go 10+ all the time. If this new 5 port will go 10+ I will get one because Werks has always been good to me.
Don't tempted to purchase simply because Drake runs it. The engine that NR provides him will not be stock as you mentioned, his NR engines would be specially modified from the factory with a pin welded to the backplate this stops people hacking with a dermal, don't forget when Drake ran the Picco based engines he was modifying from his garage. You nor I will never have a chance of obtaining the exact same engine that drake runs never period. I can guarantee you if Jim H from fusion is still the importer he wouldn't be able to get his hands on the same spec engines that Drake runs. With the B5 as Ron mentioned the exact same engine has been tested and run at major race events by Kortz and has lasted multiple meetings..win win:nod: |
Originally Posted by Jesussaves
(Post 6192426)
Marcus,
Don't tempted to purchase simply because Drake runs it. The engine that NR provides him will not be stock as you mentioned, his NR engines would be specially modified from the factory with a pin welded to the backplate this stops people hacking with a dermal, don't forget when Drake ran the Picco based engines he was modifying from his garage. You nor I will never have a chance of obtaining the exact same engine that drake runs never period. I can guarantee you if Jim H from fusion is still the importer he wouldn't be able to get his hands on the same spec engines that Drake runs. With the B5 as Ron mentioned the exact same engine has been tested and run at major race events by Kortz and has lasted multiple meetings..win win:nod: |
Originally Posted by Marcus Falconie
(Post 6192303)
The motor looks great and I like 5 port motors but I am going to wait to see if the fuel milage is in the 10's like you say. I was watching the Live RC Fuel Nationals broadcast and when they interviewed Kortz he said he can just get 9 so that means he has to pit at 8 and Drake was going over 12 with the +4 and that is one less pit than Kortz at the Australia race. I know his +4 is not stock but I see them go 10+ all the time. If this new 5 port will go 10+ I will get one because Werks has always been good to me.
Secondly after having been left out for an extra lap at the last wolds which resulted in him being run out of fuel by his pit team at 9:45 seconds (with the old B7-Pro C at the Farm!!, thankfully it was not me lol) he is extremely conservative about how long he stays out there. Always choosing to pit an extra time versus even attempting to push it. Third, you have to compare apples to apples and in this case you are not. First, Drake is (supposedly) running a $300 based engine, something that right off the bat is 50% more expensive than the B5. Secondly he was running a 6mm reducer, we were running a 7mm reducer simply because we did not have time to test engine set up's (read the single car team portion above for an explanation of why). At that track if we were running a 6mm reducer and limiting throttle opening we would have gained an easy 45 seconds, but you have to have time to test this! Third, there were quite a few Novarossi's (and every other brand imaginable of engines) and no one else that I can remember went over 10 minutes except for Drank in the A no matter what type of motor they ran. And finally you are attempting to compare the B5, a 100% bone stock, production engine (that had over 6 gallons on it when we started the race :D) to a Novarossi factory modified engine. Which if you have ever seen one of these, comes straight from Novarossi sealed and with the back plate glued on so that you can not even open it. To be honest, even the drivers do not know what they are running and I can guarantee you will never, ever be able to buy it. And having said all of this I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to take anything away from Drake, he is an awesome driver, drove an awesome race and deserved to win it (even though I wish Kortz and him would not have tangled up in the main which broke Kortz shock as I think we had a top 5 car ;-). Believe me when I say that I also have the ability to do one off engines, make special parts and probably could make a 12 or 13 minute engine for one person if I wanted to but that is not my philosophy. We run stock engine, what we race with you can buy and in this case we ran the US Nationals with a $200 engine and made the A main and finished 8th running over half of it with only 3 shocks lol! Something that not a lot of other companies can say:D Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
Hey Werks
on amain it says that they will not be available until the 19th but you said that they shiped today is that from Italy or some were in the US thanks. |
Originally Posted by smittyusmc
(Post 6192719)
Hey Werks
on amain it says that they will not be available until the 19th but you said that they shiped today is that from Italy or some were in the US thanks. Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
Drake drove an awesome race but i can tell you it went further than motor that allowed him to go that long.and i can tell you the public wont see what it is.and thats all im saying.
anyway I for one think its awesome that Kortz runs a stock engine in major events. leaves us regular folks to hit the track with a little confidence. as far as runtime i will let you guys know as I hope to run one really soon.. MO |
motor
For $200 I am going to order one just to try it:) That is less than a engine rebuild.
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Will this engine have enough low end for a truggy? Thats where i was thinking of putting it, but looks like most people are thinking of this as a buggy motor. Is that what this was designed for rather than a truggy? The track I race on has a lot of short run ups to big jumps, most people have to single the jumps including me.
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Werks, on the crankshaft of the B5 are there any balancing slugs or epoxy filling? Regardless I feel that I will give this motor a try. How can one go wrong with an Italian 5 port mill at that price? You can barely get a sport motor for 200 bones.
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Originally Posted by Madbrad
(Post 6193111)
Will this engine have enough low end for a truggy? Thats where i was thinking of putting it, but looks like most people are thinking of this as a buggy motor. Is that what this was designed for rather than a truggy? The track I race on has a lot of short run ups to big jumps, most people have to single the jumps including me.
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Originally Posted by jpz_67
(Post 6193216)
Werks, on the crankshaft of the B5 are there any balancing slugs or epoxy filling? Regardless I feel that I will give this motor a try. How can one go wrong with an Italian 5 port mill at that price? You can barely get a sport motor for 200 bones.
There are specific advantages to doing each but realistically under real world use there is a very, very minimum performance gain that while it may be noticeable on the dyno will rarely if ever be noticed on an off-road track by the average driver. We ran these back to back on this engine design (lightened crank versus stock, balanced crank versus non) and the conclusion that we came to was it was not worth pushing the price point up higher to add this. From the results that we have gotten with the engine already I would say that this belief has been validated. |
Well mines on backorder Werks.:):nod:
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I put mine on back order this morning I can wait to get mine because the fall point series race is starting Saturday so I hope I can have it for the next race.
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Would a JP-3 be good with this?
Also I think a free clutch or T-Shirt would be great for buying one on the first shipment :smile::lol::smile: |
Thanks guys! Please post on here what your thoughts are once you get them in!
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Originally Posted by NitroAmmo
(Post 6195719)
Would a JP-3 be good with this?
Also I think a free clutch or T-Shirt would be great for buying one on the first shipment :smile::lol::smile: Regarding the JP-3 I have not tested with that pipe and the results that you see are going to be widely dependent on your driving style and track layout but if you do test one please let us know what your thoughts are. It would be nice to start building up a general knowledge base on here for everyone. Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
hi rons,
i just back order mine... i will put this engine in my rc8t....some question here: 1) what is the great running temp for werks engine ? 2) what is the recomended way to break in ( i would be very happy if you let me know in detail)? 3) what other brand venturi insert compatible ? 4) i have pipe 2047,3023, jp3, jp4, which one is the best for this engine ? maybe you can recomend 1... |
Hi
Very interested in this engine currently have the B7 (will keep as second engine) I would like to ask what the recommended plugs are for this engine. I race at sea level with humidity in the 60% range most of the time. A very hot day would be 80F |
Originally Posted by rc_cal
(Post 6195883)
hi rons,
i just back order mine... i will put this engine in my rc8t....some question here: 1) what is the great running temp for werks engine ? 2) what is the recomended way to break in ( i would be very happy if you let me know in detail)? 3) what other brand venturi insert compatible ? 4) i have pipe 2047,3023, jp3, jp4, which one is the best for this engine ? maybe you can recomend 1... Hello rc_cal, Thanks for back ordering one of the B5's! Regarding your questions: 1) Normal operating temperature would be between 210 to around 250'ish degree's. I'm quoting a 40+ degree operating window because there are again quite a range of variable that can affect this i.e. weather, plug choice, pipe, track size and most definitely fuel choice. Having said that temp is secondary! Always tune your engine to get the performance that you are looking for while making sure that you are still blowing some smoke. No smoke = you are going to have a problem. Once you get your engine set with the performance that you like, take the temp and then you can use that as a reference point down the road to quickly set your motor in the range that you lik. 2) The infamous break in question lol! We're a racing company and make engines for racers, what I have found is that talk to 4 different racers and you will get 4 different opinions on how to do it lol! You wanted a detailed answer though so let the book writing begin lol! The way that I normal do it is to set the HS needle to flush with the end of the housing and then with the air filter off, fire it up and leave it on the box. Blip the throttle a couple of times and then let it come back down to idle. Then I start to screw in the idle stop screw until I see around a 2-2.5mm air gap (opening on the slide). When you are doing this your idle speed will start to increase so you are basically going to have to start richening your low speed needle a couple of hours (until you get a smooth, steady idle) then do a couple of hours on the idle stop screw and back and forth until you see the 2-2.5mm+ air gap that I mentioned. As this is a two stroke engine, performance is always dictated by air/fuel ratio and as we are now talking about the low speed needle (remember we set the HS needle flush with the end of the housing and there is no need to touch this again for a while) if you have too much fuel (rich setting) you will have a low idle, if you have too little fuel (lean setting) you will have a high idle). It basically is a no brainer if you are too rich or lean because your engine will tell you! Once you get a steady idle going with the large air gap that I mentioned (large air gap means a lot of air flow, to get a steady idle means that to compensate you will have to dump a lot of fuel through the engine= guaranteed rich condition and you can not damage your engine right off the bat by being too lean) I idle it through the first tank on the box. This is done basically to pump a lot of oil through the engine to flush out any metal particles in the engine and remove the minute bit of metal particles that are always released initially during break in. Now with the radio gear on, engine off and the slide closed look down the throat of the carb and slowly start to pull the trigger. Take note of the how much throttle you are giving at the point that the low speed needle (which is connected to the slide) comes out of the spray bar (the hollow tube) on the opposite side of the carb. We will use this as a referance for tuning later on but basically what is happening is that during the range of throttle movement that the low speed needle is embedded in the spray bar, the low speed needle will affect fuel delivery (for the purist we both know that this is a simplified explanation as the fuel first travels through the HS needle circuit before going to the LS but since we already set the HS to a rich setting and will not be touching this for a while it's pretty much a mute point). At the point that it is out of the spray bar the fuel delivery (or tune) is affected solely by the high speed needle. Then I re-install the air filter, fire up the engine and toss it on the ground. Start slowly doing figure eights at say 3 to 4 mph until you run through the tank. Then for the next tank i fire the engine up again and back the idle screw out a couple of hours. You will immediately hear the idle speed start to reduce, to compensate for this I then lean the low speed needle a couple of hours until I again hear a smooth steady idle. Once I have this I then start doing figure eights again but now a little bit fasted until the tank is empty. Next tank fire up the engine, back idle screw out a couple of hours, lean LS needle a couple of hours, do figure eights a couple of mph faster. Basically what I'm doing with this system is slowly reducing the amount of lubricant being pumped through the engine while at the same time slowly increasing the amount of load that is being put on the engine. This I keep on repeating until I get to approximately the point that I'm pulling the trigger far enough that I know the low speed needle is being pulled out of the spray bar (remember we checked this initially while we had the air filter off) at which point your air gap (the amount the slide is help open by the idle stop screw) will have been reduced to aprox. 1-1.5mm. Once we get to this point we now need to be concerned about the HS needle. What I then do is re-fuel and fire the vehicle up, putt it around for a couple of minutes to heat saturate the case and the chassis and then do a quick high speed run around the track (do not hold it maxed out for a long time on the straight, this is bad). I pull it back in, temp the engine and adjust the HS needle so that I see right around 200 degrees. Then let the engine drop back down to idle and see how the idle performance looks. If the idle is now fast (it has now increased) this means that you need to richen your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine, there is too little fuel flowing into it = lean condition) don't touch the idle screw just the LS needle. If the idle is low this means that you now need to lean your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine there is too much fuel flowing into it = rich condition) again don't touch the idle screw. Then I toss the car on the track for another 6-8 tanks with the engine running around 200 degrees as explained above running close to race speed but rolling off the throttle mid way down the straight. Once I'm done with the 6-8 tanks doing this we would have run around 12 to 15 tanks total through the engine in all of the steps above. I now consider the engine pretty much broken in and I'll get close to race tune on the HS setting the engine around 220 degrees. Again check to see what happens to the idle speed and adjust your low speed needle to compensate if it is high or low. Run a further 6 or so tanks through the engine driving it as you normally would and you are good to go to full race tune which will be in the 220 to say mid 240'ish range and I would consider the engine broken in and ready to be pounded on. A long explanation but using this system helps avoid one of the most common mistakes faced by newer tuners which is setting their low speed needle too lean because they have too little air gap (the carb is hardly open help open by the idle stop screw so to compensate they set the LS needle super lean easily causing damage to the engine). I also like to use this system because I often end up tuning and/or breaking in a lot of different types of engine with people. Using this system i never even worry about knowing what the factory needle settings are or anything along those lines. I just set the HS and LS flush with the end of the housing, set the air gap so that the slide is open 1-1.5mm and fire the engine up. How it idles immediately tells me if the LS needle is too lean or rich so I set this, then check the temp after a high speed run, adjust the HS needle to be in the 220'ish range, check idle speed and set LS so that it is smooth and steady and the engine is ready to go. Takes about 4-5 minutes total on an engine that could be completely out of whack and I've never even seen or ran before lol! 3) Ours, Sirio and possibly some of the Orion ones I would think. 4) Again we did all of our testing with our own pipes i.e. the 2013 and 3014 (3 chamber pipe) but I would start out with the JP3 initially and then test the others. The JP 4 and I'm assuming the 3023 are 3 chamber pipes so these will probably be more restrictive slightly reducing the power band but increasing the fuel economy so depending on what organization you run under (i.e. if use of these pipes is required) and if you feel the engine is over powered for you these can also be a worth while item to test. Hope this helps! Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
Originally Posted by Slimie
(Post 6196310)
Hi
Very interested in this engine currently have the B7 (will keep as second engine) I would like to ask what the recommended plugs are for this engine. I race at sea level with humidity in the 60% range most of the time. A very hot day would be 80F Thanks for using one of our product already! As I mentioned on here before you will find the B5 to have a similar feel to the B7 but with more bottom end and slightly less top and longer run times. Regarding plug choice we have ran in some really humid weather (N. Carolina in the middle of summer lol) and always seem to stick with OS P3's, OD97T's or our Werks BT5P's. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions! Regards, Ron Hopkins Werks Racing |
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