I have heard some people really like the K10 engines, but like stated above they are not Nova produced engines so the quality will not be there. If your looking for a low priced engine for a truggy I would do like Chris Reilly said and get the F11. The B11 will work good in truck, but is not a cheap engine.

The killer engines are really quite nice to drive--in buggy. I've got one that I put about 3.5-4 gallons on and it's still got plenty of compression with zero rod slop, still runs excellent and gets 9+ minutes a tank @ 230ºF... I just decided to switch it up for the new year and the Killer will get put into a GT8 onroad.

Agree on the F11 for truggy, especially if you have another carb that you can put on. The old style is what made me decide against an F11 for the new year.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with that older style carb. It's still a Nova carb and is still much better than a carb you will find on most other engines out there IMO. Yes the idle screw is on the other side of the carb but in all honesty you should not be adjusting that needle very often if ever once you have a good tune on the engine. I race on tracks that range from 3,500 feet elevation to 6,500 feet and even from one extreme to the other I don't ever have to mess with my idle. The fuel mixture will need adjusted to compensate for the altitude changes but not the idle.

I ran the Killer 910 in truggy, it ran real well in the truggy, didnt see many other with the same speed, its best to pick up and extra set of o-rings for the carb, they seem a little cheezy.

I have decided to bring my WS7 III out of retirement. I replaced seals and bearings. I have added a turbo head button. Compression is good. I am using a 2045 pipe and a 198 header pipe. I was doing some baseline tuning the other day and noticed at max RPM there is a cracking noise that almost resembles a 4 stroke valve float. HSN did not have any effect. Any thoughts? The motor make good power up until it revs out.
What is "normal" fuel leakage for the front bearing? Should the amount of leakage be used to determine the condition of the bearing?

Local guy here runs the K10 in his MBX6T, and it goes very, very well.. His pal is always buying the really expensive stuff - Toro Nero, Capricorn whatever, and the K10 just keeps going whereas his buddy's expensive stuff causes lots of problems. Not newbs.

Also, if the K10 is really identical to the Go GX-5R as I have heard, then it's plenty grunty for truggy... The Go's are underrated, just because they're from Taiwan.

Like other said, K10 haven't got the power in a truggy for US style tracks. Normal European tracks doesn't need much power - only a reliable engine like the K10. Don't expect to run more than 5 gallons with a K engine. The weak spot are the crank pin.
I would vote for a F11.

Don't buy that completely.. There have been plenty of videos over the years from the States with Go 5-ports and even 3-ports with truggies tearing it up pretty well on US tracks.. Also, the Go thread is long and full of happy US truggy drivers, so maybe not for some tracks, but for most the Go 5-port is a good engine.. It was also a tremendous value in kit form with the spare conrod, two plugs, pipe, venturis, head shims, etc.. People even say the 5-port is too much for buggy - which is what most people say about engines more optimal for truggy. I also ran a Caster Grenade (Go 5-port clone) in an RC8 buggy, and it was probably over-powered for most serious buggy racers... It was also easily the best idling engine I've had... My other Italians so far have been a Nova 528XR, an Orion 24, and a Picco P7 Evo 2.. The Picco was good, but the first two absolutely SUCKED. Oh yeah, also have a Nova 5-port now, and it's good, but not outstounding or anything. I'd take the Go over it..

Yes but you did not buy your Nova 28 new did you ?.... ended up you were running bad fuel or something no ? regardless it doesn't matter anyways....but to clarify the RB K10 is the same engine as a OFNA JL .21...it is made by Force not Go...........

With weaker engines you MUST have a perfect approach for the big jumps, washboards (??) etc.. Its much easier to clear jumps etc with a powerfull engine, where you only needs a few meters to get enough speed to clear the jumps.

You can save many small driving mistake with a powerful engine! :nod:

My mistake.. I thought it was a rebadged Go.

The Nova .28 was new and one of the worst engine experiences I have had. Tried plug changes, new fuel lines, changed the clutch, bought new pipes, etc.. Never tuned. Sold it to a guy who ran different fuel without touching a needle, and it ran fine. So FOR ME anyway and the fuel I had no choice but to run, the engine was fxxxing useless and caused a ton of stress. The Orion was pretty much the same. Also new.

Whatever the case, an engine being Italian does not automatically endow it with superior quality. There are plenty of burned Toro Nero owners around to atest to that...(not to mention Fix It Again Tony Fiat drivers ha ha...) Among others.. The reverse is true for Taiwanese engines.

You can also waste a lot of time spinning tires... ;)

Not with a correct clutch setup :tire:
Have you ever tried e.g. a stock Plus4 or similar engine? Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Are NR C5TF plugs good for the F11?

No!! That is a cold body plug and mainly for onroad. C5TGC or C6TGC is what you want. If you try running that C5TGF plug your gona have flame outs and you will be chasing the tune all day. The last letter is what determines a hot or cold body plug. I know the first time I bought Nova plugs I assumed the C meant cold :blush:

C: caldo
F: frio

To me it sounds like the plug is bad honestly. Have you tried another plug maybe different brand or different temp? Or even just another new one of what you already have? That pipe and header combo is what I always ran on my WS7 engines. The front bearing should not really leak any fuel unless your running really rich still. If you run only one or two tanks and notice it's already getting your engine block wet you are either too rich or the bearing needs replaced. NVR17011 and 01151-72 are the same bearing.. They work great and are worth the extra money IMO!!

Thanks.. A German NR distributor (SMI/Orcan) told me that a "5 or 6 TGH" is what I want.. Ha ha, ok - C = H for hot..

There's a dude on a German forum selling four C5TF's (i.e. C5TC I guess...) for ten bucks. That's why I asked..

I also see in my online searches that Fusion and Losi sell the C5TGC under their names..

Couple German guys are arguing and saying just take a P3.. I believe you guys of course, but there do seem to be some knowledgeable guys out there casting doubt on the idea that there is such a big difference between OS and other plug shapes/conus forms... Not sure how wary to be of OS plugs.. And one guy did make the quite valid point that if you run OS plugs, it's always easier - A LOT easier judging by my search for these Nova plugs - to find a P3 in a pinch....

I appreciate all the info though, and will keep trying to track down some NR plugs (2x C5TGC and 1x C6TGC I guess...)

Lmk what you need , I will ship you the plugs no prob

On this side of the pond running a P3 in a engine like that would be considered a rookie mistake.....Not that the P3 is a bad plug, but for that particular engine ( F11 ) the P3 is quite the mismatch.........The P3 is ridiculously hot with a very thin fragile element coil...It was designed to run in engines with lower compression and cooler combustion, ....The F11 however is basically a onroad engine, it has high compression, high squish velocity and a much hotter more focused combustion...Because of this the F11 doesn't need such a hot glowplug ... running such a hot glowplug in the F11 is going to advance the ignition quite far which will likely result in detonation and broken glowplug coils once you start running the engine hard...... The only reasons I could possibly see to run a P3 in a engine like the F11 is if a person did not know how to tune and were running the engine extremely rich...or if they were running at very high altitudes, or running some fuel that had very poor combustion qualities and needed the hotter plug to compensate, If fuel is bad a ultra hot glowplug would help stabilize the idle...Another reason for a P3 is if you were running lower nitro content................But on this side of the pond running a quality 30% running a P3 would be just asking for trouble IMHO...You probably couldn't mismatch a engine and plug much worse then that....Results would be short glowplug life, poor fuel mileage and very good chances of coil element breaking free inside the engine and causing damage, or at least if the engine was tuned to full potential......

I don't think Daniel Reckward and RMV Germany would recommend the P3 for RB engines (on Tornado fuel) it it were a "rookie mistake"... There are a lot of other very experienced racers here, sponsored included, who often swear by the P3 - in all kinds of engines, Novarossi included... I'm the one who gets criticized and barked at for saying "in US forums they say don't run OS bla bla...." Everybody here runs P3's. I don't buy that they're only for rookies who don't know how to tune.

Which is not to say some other plug might not be marginally better. But again, RMV Germany would not be officially recommending P3's for RB engines with Tornado fuel without knowing what they're talking about.

And furthermore, I have to live with what is available to me - and for fuel that means Tornado, and for plugs, well OS are far, FAR easier to come by than Werks or Picco or these weird hot NR plugs for ex... But I'll keep looking for them..

Most likely then it is the Tornado fuel that requires an extremely hot glowplug to fire correctly......As a P3 is far too hot for that engine under any normal circumstances, end of story bro !

Honesty Neal, don't waste the time. It gets frustrating when people
ask and then you get ridiculed for the advice you offer them. It's just
not worth taking the time or the effort to reply to some anymore. :lol:

All I know is that in my experiences with toy car engines a difference in something very very small (maybe not even visible to the naked eye) can make a big difference. And there is the pic again and the difference is something I can see.

Maybe ask the guys out there how long their OS plugs last in the RB's? Everyone I know that runs OS plugs usually needs a new one every race day or every 2nd race day if they are lucky. My Nova and RB plugs always last between 6-8 race weekends. Plus if you happen to run a little lean the OS plug will probably be done, the RB and Nova plugs can take it most of the time.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...alta/plugs.jpg

Look at thr thread pitch and the length of the taper in the seal area

Taper not as long on os and it deforms the combustion bowl

Nova plugs in nova made engines ;)

C5tgc or c6tgc

Chris has already convinced me to get the NR (hot) plugs. So I've been looking for them..

I was only pointing out that there are lots of experienced people about who cast doubt on OS plugs in NR engines being such a big deal... Dude just chimed in on this German forum telling me how great his X10 runs with P3's and P4's....

I just wonder if there is another reason the hotter plugs seem favored over there....If I were to take a guess I am going to say it is the fuel.....A hotter plug will make a engine more forgiving of higher oil,lower nitro,higher water content or basically anything that makes the fuel less combustible......On my fuel I would never be able to tune a F11 to peak performance using a P3 or P4...I would destroy the plug very rapidly....The only way I could run those plugs would be to have the needle settings rich, or add a extra head shim, which unfortunately would have other negative side effects....... Basically in the end maybe the P3 and P4 are the only plugs they are able to get stable performance from with the fuel they are using...Which would also mean they are not running these engines at their peak efficiency either..... So many little factors affect these little engines...fuel being a huge variable .....

Also I have seen guys go back and forth between Nova,OS and Werks plugs with no issue or damage to the head button......I don't do it, nor do I recommend it.....But I can't argue with what I have seen with my own eyes ! Some of my locals do this all the time, I think sometimes just to bug me LOL :flaming:.....But in the end it caused no ill effects, as much as I hate to say...I actually lost a coffee bet over the topic this summer !!!

I know this situation here in Germany.
All my teammates are running p3 plugs in their RB Engines without any issues.
That was the reason I used p3 plugs in my x10.

Now I bought a X11 Box and want to try the Nova/RB plugs from the beginning.
So where is the difference between the C6TGC and RB No.6.
When would you use the C5 and when the C6 plug?

I have no doubts... I Am just curious as to the mechanical reason why you guys are needing and choosing to run such hot plugs..... I thinking we possibly just have better fuels over here that allow us to run much cooler plugs without having tune issues......If I were to run some of the off the shelf fuels I probably would also have to switch up to a hotter plug to aid combustion.........

I was pitman for a F11 in November. The engine ran perfect with Novarossi #6 and 25% Lamberto fuel.

Neal: In Germany and many other countries in Europe we are only allowed to run 25% nitro.

in england if you run rb you would use c6 plug with byron 25 or 30 i would not touch tornado with a barge poll its not very good gear byron or racing experience fuel both very good also you would not run os plug in rb or vise versa i dont even think you get a proper seal because of the pitch

Also to consider is actual nitro % ...sometimes the claimed content and actual content are different...Also purity of the methanol used....different country, different refining techniques and regulations etc. etc..........

The RB #6 would be similar to the Nova C6TGF and the RB5 to the C5TGF. These cold body plugs work great on an engine that is broken in and tuned to make max power. When your running rich breakin settings the RB plugs will just not stay hot enough to keep the fuel burning and like many people have said they have trouble keeping the engine running. This is probably why people started down the OS plug path and once it fixed their issue of running rich at breakin settings they stayed with it and started to swear by it.

Also IMO if I was running a fuel where even team drivers say they have to do something like run an Ultra hot OS plug in a Nova engine I would be switching fuels because something isn't right in that equation to me. Not when many people all over the world using other fuels can get it working without the ultra hot OS plug. Heck even those P4 OS plugs are hotter than the C5TGC and explains why some of them were adding head shims. That to me should not be necessary.

As for when to run what plug. If I run the RB plugs I only run the #5 plugs. Even with that RB #5 plug your tune is going to have to be very close to the full on race tune. Where you see it the most is right after a pit stop and the engine dies. Yes a hotter plug will help that but a correct tune will also help that situation. With the Nova plugs I run the C5TGC almost all the time unless it's over 90 degrees... Then I will use the C6TGC. The biggest thing is finding what works best for YOU and what helps you keep your engine running.

Very good advice chris :nod:

I did a comparison this summer between Picco and OS plugs, just to see the difference. Picco plugs is also hard to find here right now as we don´t have any importer for Picco.
I usually run Picco P6TH and I tried a OS RP8. After giving both needle 1/2 turn out I fired up the engine, it started to machine gunning so bad that I turned both needles 1/2 turn more out. But then the engine started to pick up temp and started pinging badly, so I just shut i down. This with a fuel that would pass tech inspection for 25%.
So my guess is that OS plugs are quite HOT! :flaming: :lol:

I think there are some bad fuels on the market as well and in general I think many of the US-brand fuels are more well tested as your market is bigger.
But I know of one US-made fuel that I wouldn't touch either so there are probably both good and bad fuel on both sides of the Atlantic. :)
Best bet is probably to buy a small batch and see for your self. :tire:

Yep I agree, we would always go to a hotter plug if things are bit iffy, however, we really struggled with the F11 in the beginning, we would get phantom flalme outs and wierd idles.

We started with a RB 6 and I slowly increased to hotter and hotter plugs as our frustrations grew.

However, the hotter I went the worse the idle and flame outs got. So in the end I stuck a RB 7 plug (out of desperation) in and all issues we gone. Perfect idle huge top end and pretty good mileage to boot.

Did the same to the B11 and got the same result.

Our condition here a pretty warm (summer here right now in Australia) highs of around 30 degrees plus and high humidity. However, I have also run this plug down in temps of around 15 degrees and it still is awesome.

We run 30% nitro.

Cheers

Mark

All the talk about the RB's using the Rb 6 glow plug, or using hotter plugs is kinda funny, 10 or so years ago, racing in 'California, with the RB S7 Europa, standard plug, turbo plugs at that time were only used on the on road engines, and if you were running RB's, you were using an Rb 8 plug, and that was all everyone used on RB engines, then you had to be on tune, or you were not racing. I had met Steve O'donnell soon after, and I ask why we did not use a hotter plug, his answer was, people that use hot plugs can't tune. This was the Nova Rossi based engines, not other engines he was speaking of.

Most of us are running RB 25% fuel.
I do not think it is a problem of bad fuel.
It is more that just one "experienced" guy started with the p3 plugs and the rest followed.
I will try both C5TGC and C6TGC plugs in my new engine.

Our RB teamdrivers mostly use RB No.6
Don't know why everybody just uses the 6 and does not try the 5.

There's nothing wrong with Tornado fuel. It's very well established and is used all over the place - by all kinds of experienced and sponsored people. Furthermore, I run it and have run it in about eight other engines, all of which run perfectly. Further-furthermore..., it already costs €11 per liter, and I can buy it just up the road. I am simply not going to switch to some other fuel that costs €15+ per liter and can only be had if you're lucky an hour away. Period. If that's what running an RB requires then I'll be selling this Fire 11 in short order and picking up the new Argus B52 instead... Just saying.

You're funny...
Just run that f11
I know enough people who run it with p3 and rb 6
One question: have you ever ran that f11 ?

Naa.. Just got it at X-mas time in a deal with a new buggy.. It's not even really an appropriate buggy engine by most accounts.. I just wanted something silly powerful, and the deal was good.. Might end up in my SC8, DM-1, or the buggy... But it being winter, it might take a bit til I get around to break-in..