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Old 08-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #2296
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Not the xray gears, the 2 speed shoe.. My guess is the stripping might be due to this. Cause first gear never strips
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #2297
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Originally Posted by Yeah Right! View Post
Hi All

When we had the gear stripping problem on the MTX4R we made sure of the mesh, 2 speed shoe being set tightly etc.... everything that has been mentioned but what fixed it for us was......


"Take the balls/roller out of the two speed, remove the 3mm grub screw and then drill the 2 speed shoes out to take a 4mm grub screw. Screw the 4mm grub screw directly down onto the cam". Then set the 2 speed closely to the holder to have a very smooth change, by doing this it made the gear change very consistant and smooth.

Our stripping problem went away, I appreciate the 5 has flex but give this a go it may work.

Good Luck (Convert now to Xray!!!)
Yep, I totally agree we did the same with our 4R and now on the 5. We found the 2 speed on our 5 inconsistent but since applying the 4R fix gear changes are consistent. This is something we pick up from Phil Woodbury a few years ago. I not sure though that this is the silver bullet solution but I am sure it helps. Having said that we have been using a brace since the first run of the car because during assembly it was obvious there was too much flex, we are yet to strip a second gear, yes that's right we haven't stripped a single gear yet others at our club (NSWRCRCC) consistently strip gears. Having looked at their cars and compared setup there is nothing that sticks out suggesting a cause. I can only put it down to how the engine is meshed, we are very careful when doing this and making sure the 2 speed shaft has a small amount of side play. We have seen cars with the side belt so tight it was loading the 2 speed shaft restricting end float, the side belt should be loose enough to allow the 2 speed shaft to have lateral movement cause when the car accelerates the shaft has a natural tendency to move towards the side belt end. The last thing you want is the side belt causing unnecessary friction. You may also want to shim between the 1st and 2nd spurs to ensure that any 2 speed shaft movement doesn't cause the pinions to rub against the 2nd gear spur, you only need about .20mm. Either we happen to have received a one off kit, which I don't believe to be the case the fix to these issues is in the setup of the car, yes things like the 2 speed shoes is a definite improvement and there's no need to use X-ray parts the mugen shoes are fine and will last for ages, but the rest is in your hands. Take the time to set your car up, make sure your mesh is correct and that the engine is perpendicular to the spurs, check for end float and make sure your side belt isn't preloading the 2 speed shaft (we only use rubber side belts). We'll do some testing without the brace before the National's to see if it contributes to preventing stripping, after all the car was designed to have chassis flex.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:05 PM   #2298
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I would love to keep my car all mugen but if I feel the 2 speed shoe is faulty then I will change it for one that i know works. Again it has to be the shoe cause only the 2nd gear strips not the first. If it was an alignment problem then both would strip.. And if your chasing a good mesh go one tooth up on the first and second.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:24 AM   #2299
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Originally Posted by NITTO550 View Post
I would love to keep my car all mugen but if I feel the 2 speed shoe is faulty then I will change it for one that i know works. Again it has to be the shoe cause only the 2nd gear strips not the first. If it was an alignment problem then both would strip.. And if your chasing a good mesh go one tooth up on the first and second.
this is one of the drawbacks of forums, it's hard to find info, so people inevitably have the same issues, ask the same questions and get the same answers. Maybe a webpage with a 1 page solutions guide would be easier lol...considering the heartache this issue is causing some people. Maybe this issue is caused by a quality control issue on mugen's end?

-no tight side belt
-shim the 1st and second gears with a .1 to .2mm washers
-get rid of roller on 2 speed, use long grub screws only
-setup 2 speed shoes so there is .05mm gap between 2 speed cam and the shoes (ie this will give a bigger gap between the show and the housing...give it a go).
-make sure both shoes have the same 2 speed release setting (screw you adjust to alter for or after 2 speed shift point)
-heat the gears up so that when you screw the housings on you do not warp the gears
-check gears roll on shaft true (ie do not wobble when rolling). if not, re do above step or pre tap gears and use loctite 222 threadlock on the screws and the plastic. Never overtighten screws on the housings as this will cause warping.
-mesh engine with larger spur gear off. this is the gear that needs to be well meshed. mesh it so it rolls free without weird noises and with as little gap as possible
-use locktight on engine screws every time you take screws out and put back in (use loctite 222)
-consider using loctite 222 to seat the bearings into the plastic bushings, and loctite the plastic bushings onto the baulkheads to avoid movement or minute vibrations that could cause wear to parts that require exact fit and finish.
-use good quality bearings on the 2 speed shaft and keep them oiled. check for wear (ie side to side, in or out play)

if still having issues, check parts like bearings and shafts for consistent size.

you don't need an engine brace, or anything like that.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:08 AM   #2300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
this is one of the drawbacks of forums, it's hard to find info, so people inevitably have the same issues, ask the same questions and get the same answers. Maybe a webpage with a 1 page solutions guide would be easier lol...considering the heartache this issue is causing some people. Maybe this issue is caused by a quality control issue on mugen's end?

-no tight side belt
-shim the 1st and second gears with a .1 to .2mm washers
-get rid of roller on 2 speed, use long grub screws only
-setup 2 speed shoes so there is .05mm gap between 2 speed cam and the shoes (ie this will give a bigger gap between the show and the housing...give it a go).
-make sure both shoes have the same 2 speed release setting (screw you adjust to alter for or after 2 speed shift point)
-heat the gears up so that when you screw the housings on you do not warp the gears
-check gears roll on shaft true (ie do not wobble when rolling). if not, re do above step or pre tap gears and use loctite 222 threadlock on the screws and the plastic. Never overtighten screws on the housings as this will cause warping.
-mesh engine with larger spur gear off. this is the gear that needs to be well meshed. mesh it so it rolls free without weird noises and with as little gap as possible
-use locktight on engine screws every time you take screws out and put back in (use loctite 222)
-consider using loctite 222 to seat the bearings into the plastic bushings, and loctite the plastic bushings onto the baulkheads to avoid movement or minute vibrations that could cause wear to parts that require exact fit and finish.
-use good quality bearings on the 2 speed shaft and keep them oiled. check for wear (ie side to side, in or out play)

if still having issues, check parts like bearings and shafts for consistent size.

you don't need an engine brace, or anything like that.
Not chipping in on this, but good to see you back on the forum Tom B. haven't seen your name anywhere around, where have you been?

Kindest regards,
Lars
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:38 AM   #2301
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Saw this in another forum:

Concerning MTX-5 gear stripping problem, MUGEN have investigated and tested at different tracks to solve this problem in Japan.
Finally we have found out that the cause of 2nd gear stripping problem was in the rear urethane belt and not in the 2nd spur gears itself or whatever.
In order to solve this problem, you just need to replace the rear belt from urethane (T0266) to rubber belt (T0269).

http://www.rckws.com/discuz/forum.ph...extra=page%3D1
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:30 AM   #2302
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To be honest with you guys, I like to try things that's not suppose to work, including using parts from other vehicles. I have read almost every page of this forum, and have developed my own theories for gear stripping. Me, by using an X-ray 2 speed shoe, I'm just eliminating another variable.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:32 AM   #2303
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tom how often do you want to change chassi we bent one in sydney in 3 tanks with all end points set right after we put braces back on it was alright till bailey hit another at car full noise at titles qld and bent it across/on angle be hind engen after that we striped 2 gears because i had not noticed damage this was first time this year about400 laps with no problem using BRACE
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:41 AM   #2304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimon View Post
Saw this in another forum:

Concerning MTX-5 gear stripping problem, MUGEN have investigated and tested at different tracks to solve this problem in Japan.
Finally we have found out that the cause of 2nd gear stripping problem was in the rear urethane belt and not in the 2nd spur gears itself or whatever.
In order to solve this problem, you just need to replace the rear belt from urethane (T0266) to rubber belt (T0269).

http://www.rckws.com/discuz/forum.ph...extra=page%3D1
no offense, but i dont buy that post, been using urethane front and rear and rubber on side and had any issues, just like tom b, did the same and also kept and eye on how the engine shaft moves, since a front engine bearing with too much wear can also affect the stripping issue
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:03 PM   #2305
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Sorry to say this guys, but I am disappointed to read about the gear problem of the car.
Really did not want to get a serpent, as back in the day I did not like how weak the S710. This led me to purchase Mugen MTX3 prospec. I loved the car and everything mugen from then on.

now I came back to see what new and I found this out.. =( should I get an MTX4 ?
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:22 PM   #2306
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Default no stripping

I just ran two mains 30 mins....over 120 laps in each....no stripped gears...I think the is something in running a brace...mine is to the two speed shaft holder...I have crazy brakes now an haven't stripped a gear in over 200 laps....that's just my experience wit the car..
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:33 PM   #2307
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the 4r is as tough as a brick as long as you set gear mesh at least when you strip a gear you can find what is wrong ///clutch bearing/or engen moved
when 5 is good it is really quick
greg

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:54 AM   #2308
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Default clutch time

Has anyone got there clutch to hit hard like the xrays an caps?? Mine slips alot...ok what am I doing wrong here???
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:58 AM   #2309
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Originally Posted by Profoxcg View Post
Sorry to say this guys, but I am disappointed to read about the gear problem of the car.
Really did not want to get a serpent, as back in the day I did not like how weak the S710. This led me to purchase Mugen MTX3 prospec. I loved the car and everything mugen from then on.

now I came back to see what new and I found this out.. =( should I get an MTX4 ?
I wouldn't touch the MTX5, the chassis bends and it strips spur gears.. it's just not good enough really is it?

There are plenty of other great options the Serpent 747, Xray NT1, Shepherd Velox V10, Capricorn LAB C02

None of these bend or strip gears, and all are capable of winning races.

The MTX-5 is fast this is proven but I couldn't buy one knowing the issues, personally I'd go for one of the new chassis with the weight reductions already in place like the 747 or the LAB C02.

You will make the 1550g limit easier, as I have a funny feeling this is the way it's all going.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:25 AM   #2310
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