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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 08-28-2017, 01:12 PM
  #1891  
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1-the car will roll more with the upper arm in low roll centre position but nothing a thicker front bar won't fix if it's causing troubles. The issue here is that you are tuning the front end alone, of course the car is twitchy with the stock setup, the TKI4 front end geometry is stiffer than TKI3 and the rear is the same old mix of things that don't play along. My setup cures that because I tuned both ends to work together;

2-Short answer, no. The caster only needs to exist when there's issues with camber during roll motion, more caster without a need only increases wear and decreases grip and your wallet;

3-9 degrees is the same you can run on the tki3. 11 is too much most of the time and to run 9 with the easiness of the old setup (or any other) more than a couple changes are needed. Again, the setup I developed is catered to that, it's meant as a maximum efficiency and stability setup and if there is a car that is faster than one running my setup it's because the other driver and car are better.

4-unfortunately that becomes complex, I stand 100% behind the tki4 changes

Making one end roll less or more than the other, with roll centre migration all messed up nets you worse results. The way camber gain, roll centre migration, wheel rate and travel work together makes for a complicated design to make but if the expected changes are in tires, static camber, ride height and shock setup then you don't need shock towers full of holes or many option parts.
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 08-29-2017 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:41 AM
  #1892  
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I came from driving a losi, the tki4 is far less twitchy then that, so i havent noticed any of the issues you have.

I believe im running 30Tooth's setup and its outstanding, however i could even use some more turn in occasionally, i play with brake bias mostly since its so good everywhere else, again, no idea where the too twitchy thing comes from.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:17 AM
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What Post was 30Tooth setup. I would love to take a look at it. I missed the post thank you'
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:20 AM
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@Gavel, are you running the full setup using the front Ackerman holes and less rear toe? Then more camber up front or more front toe out might be enough. Anything just ask.

Originally Posted by Motorman007
What Post was 30Tooth setup. I would love to take a look at it. I missed the post thank you'
Updated the setup on the wiki, run 101 front and 120 rear droop for more steering overall @Gavel.

Things to take into account, if I have two options marked it's for you to try and see which you like. I'm advising to use front most Ackerman hole and the stock rear hub height and use the upper outer hub hole with the inner camber link mounting point a hole up on the shock tower.

Last edited by 30Tooth; 08-31-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
@Gavel, are you running the full setup using the front Ackerman holes and less rear toe? Then more camber up front or more front toe out might be enough. Anything just ask.



The old one is on the wiki, gotta update that with this one.

Things to take into account, if I have two options marked it's for you to try and see which you like. I'm advising to use front most Ackerman hole and the stock rear hub height and use the upper outer hub hole with the inner camber link mounting point a hole up on the shock tower.
Got it thank you boss
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:53 AM
  #1896  
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No, i do not adjust only one axle at a time. You need to go upwith the camberlink also, this makes it even worse... This only happends on high traction tracks tough.

You are intiteled to your opinions, and in theory you are probely right. But my experience tells me something else so i stick to what works for me :-)

On a side note, it was interesting to see that Boots and all the Kyosho drivers went from 13 degrees caster and TKI4 bplate and knuckles to TKI3 parts and as much caster (19 degrees) and kickup they had parts for in the hightraction euros warmup.

Happy racing :-)
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
@Gavel, are you running the full setup using the front Ackerman holes and less rear toe? Then more camber up front or more front toe out might be enough. Anything just ask.



The old one is on the wiki, gotta update that with this one.

Things to take into account, if I have two options marked it's for you to try and see which you like. I'm advising to use front most Ackerman hole and the stock rear hub height and use the upper outer hub hole with the inner camber link mounting point a hole up on the shock tower.
When do ypu recomend this setup?
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by am
No, i do not adjust only one axle at a time. You need to go upwith the camberlink also, this makes it even worse... This only happends on high traction tracks tough.

You are intiteled to your opinions, and in theory you are probely right. But my experience tells me something else so i stick to what works for me :-)

On a side note, it was interesting to see that Boots and all the Kyosho drivers went from 13 degrees caster and TKI4 bplate and knuckles to TKI3 parts and as much caster (19 degrees) and kickup they had parts for in the hightraction euros warmup.

Happy racing :-)
Gotcha Mr. Anders, inside I knew you know more than tuning one axle at a time. In that regard I can assure you that going to long upper arms and one position higher on the shock tower side with stiffer roll bars(or more bar preload, try for yourself) is the complete package, you have to change a couple of things as all is interconnected.

That's why I want to help you all, I know you are driving with your experiences and I am offering mine for the betterment of the Kyosho brand.

That track had many sharp holes and the cars were tossed quite badly, with my setup that is lessened big time. With more caster the bump handling is even better if you need it.

Originally Posted by Kyosho99
When do ypu recomend this setup?
Everywhere, all year. Treat shock oil as a starting point in a cold climate so expect to run around 500 if it's warm in your location (upwards of 30C).


V2 setup uploaded here and to Wiki. If not mentioned then it's setup from the manual. Use 101-120 droop.
Attached Thumbnails Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit-lr-ht-v2.jpg  
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 09-05-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:00 PM
  #1899  
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Originally Posted by am
I find the car more forgiving and not so twitchy. For me, the high upper arm needed with tki4 b-plate makes the car flip very often.

Kanai have come out with the 17.5 degree casterblocks, i think/guess this might be a remedy for the TKI4 B-plate.

Someone over her mentioned that you can have the same kickup with TKI3 and 4 B-plate. That is wrong. The TKI4 B-plate moves the hingepin upwards, since the a-plate is the same, you get max kickup on TK4 plate 9-degrees and Tki3 11 degrees if i rember correctly.

If i could have it my way. I would have a new B-plate doing TKI3 setting with inserts that moves the hingepin up to middle hole (TKI4 B.plate) and an upper hole 2 degrees more for astro tracks. That would also require a new A plate so you can get 11 degrees of kickupwhen using the upper inserts.
M2c ....
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Gotcha Mr. Anders, inside I knew you know more than tuning one axle at a time. In that regard I can assure you that going to long upper arms and one position higher on the shock tower side with stiffer roll bars(or more bar preload, try for yourself) is the complete package, you have to change a couple of things as all is interconnected.

That's why I want to help you all, I know you are driving with your experiences and I am offering mine for the betterment of the Kyosho brand.

That track had many sharp holes and the cars were tossed quite badly, with my setup that is lessened big time. With more caster the bump handling is even better if you need it.



Everywhere, all year. Treat shock oil as a starting point in a cold climate so expect to run around 500 if it's warm in your location (upwards of 30C).


V2 setup uploaded here and to Wiki. If not mentioned then it's setup from the manual.
You run 2 degree angle on rear for two how do ypu achieve this isnt the normal hub set at 3 degree?
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:24 AM
  #1901  
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Originally Posted by houston
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One for St-RR fit?
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:01 AM
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This is what im using. I believe i am running 2.5 rear toe so that might be my first change when i need more steering, although i hesitate as the on power steering is quite good its usually off power where i need more (my track has alot of sharp 180 degree turns.)
Attached Thumbnails Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit-lt-hr-setup-starting-base.jpg  
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:55 AM
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Are the optional aluminum 19 degree frt caster blocks for the tki4 a nice part to have in your tuning box for different tracks ? thx
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by am
One for St-RR fit?
no ... top secret stuff
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:00 AM
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Hi guys.

Anybody knows how to get the bottom motor mount screws - 4x10 flanged cap head (if431), without having to also buy the mount plates ??

And i cant find anything like it. I like that it fits a 3mm hex. And there is not enough room to use a normal cap head with a shim.

Hope someone can help me out here.
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