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Tamiya TRF417

Old 03-04-2011, 12:01 AM
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Hi guys.
Quick question, Do any of you's run a 10.5 with advanced timing in your 417? If so what pinion would you recomend to start with a standard spur?
Thanks
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:59 AM
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Post on behalf of Jilles.

Jilles and Marc's setup during TITC 2011.

Enjoy.

- Please refer latest post.

Last edited by jonest; 03-05-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jonest
Post on behalf of Jilles.

Jilles and Marc's setup during TITC 2011.

Enjoy.
How did Jilles accomplish -2.5mm FF/FR suspension mount setting? I can't remember but doesn't this make the roll center higher - so he had very little roll in the front to combat high initial grip??
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tron
How did Jilles accomplish -2.5mm FF/FR suspension mount setting? I can't remember but doesn't this make the roll center higher - so he had very little roll in the front to combat high initial grip??
To get the minus roll, you flip the front toe block like you do with the Front Rear block but use 2.5mm. Perhaps I should have put in -0.5mm in the setup sheet. I'll change the sheet later in the nite. Thanks
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jonest
To get the minus roll, you flip the front toe block like you do with the Front Rear block but use 2.5mm. Perhaps I should have put in -0.5mm in the setup sheet. I'll change the sheet later in the nite. Thanks
Hey Jonest,
Was good to meet you at the TITC... like I said at the time, try again next year

Regarding the setups, one other correction, is I believe the two blue o-rings were in the bottom of the shocks. I chatted to Jilles about this (and I may have got the wrong end of the stick), but I understood it that he used two o-rings in the bottom rather than the delrin spacer and one o-ring. I remember this being mentioned before when he ran at the snowbirds, to help with taking away initial traction.
Marc I think was running standard kit setup (spacer/o-ring), with nothing above the bladder, and a sealed top cap... that's what Kio told me

Regards
Ed
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nitro rat
Hi guys.
Quick question, Do any of you's run a 10.5 with advanced timing in your 417? If so what pinion would you recomend to start with a standard spur?
Thanks
Go for 7.5 fdr as a start, this is used on our high grip 6500 sq.ft indoor asphalt track
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jonest
To get the minus roll, you flip the front toe block like you do with the Front Rear block but use 2.5mm. Perhaps I should have put in -0.5mm in the setup sheet. I'll change the sheet later in the nite. Thanks
Thanks jonest

One more question, regarding using split blocks in the Front Rear position without a spacer is that like running the regular one piece block in the Front Rear with 3.0 or 3.5 (as kit instructions say) mm under it?

Last edited by Tron; 03-04-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TryHard
Hey Jonest,
Was good to meet you at the TITC... like I said at the time, try again next year

Regarding the setups, one other correction, is I believe the two blue o-rings were in the bottom of the shocks. I chatted to Jilles about this (and I may have got the wrong end of the stick), but I understood it that he used two o-rings in the bottom rather than the delrin spacer and one o-ring. I remember this being mentioned before when he ran at the snowbirds, to help with taking away initial traction.
Marc I think was running standard kit setup (spacer/o-ring), with nothing above the bladder, and a sealed top cap... that's what Kio told me

Regards
Ed
Ed,

I'll check with Jilles tomorrow afternoon to confirm the o-ring setup, whether it's above the bladder or within the shock without the delrin spacer. As for next year TITC, I'm preparing myself even as we speak. Tentative date is around 20ish Feb 2012.... Hope to see you then.... well maybe could dropby Shanghai / Guangzhou if there's a big and worthy attending race?!

Another thing is that Jilles mentioned that Marc ran his front arm a little bit of sweep, wasn't sure was it C / B or B / C blocks. Will check with him tomorrow too.

Originally Posted by Tron
Thanks jonest

One more question, regarding using split blocks in the Front Rear position without a spacer is that like running the regular one piece block with 2.5 or 3.0 mm under it?
Tron,

Split block without spacer = 3mm under the flipped block.

Hope this helps.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:25 AM
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Cheers Jonest... be good to check
Actually been at the track in Shanghai today (I'll try to find out when a big race is on for you ), and it seems me and my 417 have finally become friends. Can't really put my finger on it, but today, the car just feels completely different to how it did before the TITC. Guess in one of the many re-builds I did there I cleared out the issues causing me problems. The cut motor mount certainly seems to be helping as well, car finally feels better than my 416X did.

Unsurprisingly, the setups different to the one I ran at TITC. Keep trying the different camber-link positions, and I'm prefering the feel of longest link, but less shims under the ball joint (4mmF/3mmR). Also back with anti-dive on the front (I'm heavy on the brakes!). For shanghai, roll-centres are up, and springs stiffer too... otherwise, not really touched the car!

Other things I tried today were the without the steering brace, which came out for for one run, and was immediately put it back in, which probably tells you my thoughts on that...
Otherwise big find for me has been going from an LTC-R to a P37 bodyshell. Properly impressed with that at the moment, a bit less initial steering than the LTC, but still rotates in the middle, and is more stable. For lower traction, highspeed, it's a winner... picked up 2/10ths, and a lot more consistency in that one change.

Now, to stop dumping a 9.5t in ten minute runs... hmmm
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:27 AM
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Guys,

Attached herewith the amended setup sheet for Jilles and Marc.

Ed, you are right, Jilles were running 2 pcs TRF Blue O-ring within the shocks. He removed the delrin spacer.
Attached Thumbnails Tamiya TRF417-trf417-jilles-titc-2011.jpg   Tamiya TRF417-trf417-marc-titc-2011.jpg  
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jonest
Ed, you are right, Jilles were running 2 pcs TRF Blue O-ring within the shocks. He removed the delrin spacer.
What's the advantage of using two O-rings in the shocks?
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:27 PM
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Noticed both Jilles and Marc camber setup were -2 front and +2.5 rear. What is the benefit?
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:33 PM
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The only explanation I can think of, is to actually reduce traction. The track condition is a high grip one, and excessive traction could cause a traction roll (i am not sure if i know what i am talking about), or maybe slow the car down. It maybe a similar reason to why bike racers use those very skinny tires. When the track surface is grippy, the excess traction slows things down.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by seasons29
Noticed both Jilles and Marc camber setup were -2 front and +2.5 rear. What is the benefit?
its a typo error, he actually meant -2.5 degrees
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tron
Go for 7.5 fdr as a start, this is used on our high grip 6500 sq.ft indoor asphalt track
Ok thanks,
so around what size pinion should that be?
I just wanna order all my stuff in one hit.
Thanks
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