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#631
Tech Elite
iTrader: (10)
Dave,
How've you been? I had a good practice this past Sun. First time with the 9 turn in my car. I may need to go down to .020 fronts. The car had good steering but not quite enough. I ended up doping the entire front tire. The rest of my setup is the same. Had no problem putting the power down with the stiffer rear end. I may have to try the raked t-bar trick with the front spacer. I'll have all day Fri. at Indy to figure it out so I should get it close. I run an Atom for my esc. Had it for quite a while and it runs solid. I am thinking about the Quantum though.
When is the Norrca race? I might be interested in going if it's not too close to my move.
I always tweak by the front. I don't trust my eyes to do it by the rear.
How've you been? I had a good practice this past Sun. First time with the 9 turn in my car. I may need to go down to .020 fronts. The car had good steering but not quite enough. I ended up doping the entire front tire. The rest of my setup is the same. Had no problem putting the power down with the stiffer rear end. I may have to try the raked t-bar trick with the front spacer. I'll have all day Fri. at Indy to figure it out so I should get it close. I run an Atom for my esc. Had it for quite a while and it runs solid. I am thinking about the Quantum though.
When is the Norrca race? I might be interested in going if it's not too close to my move.
I always tweak by the front. I don't trust my eyes to do it by the rear.
#632
Tech Champion
iTrader: (22)
I was talking with the owner of Windtunnel racing, they do graphite and fiberglass rc parts. He says he can make tbars in custom sizes, like .078, .080, etc, which would actually be the size, unlike most of the stuff available now. Usually an .075 package t bar can be from .070 to .078, and you have to look a long time to find a thick one. So maybe you guys could post what size you would want for carpet. i'm thinking if you could get like .078s all day that would be cool. Or even thicker for real high traction.
website: http://windtunnelracing.homestead.com/associated.html
website: http://windtunnelracing.homestead.com/associated.html
#633
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Hey Rob and Jonny what's up? Socko now it makes sense why people have been able to run .22's. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me because I couldn't get enough steering and none of the Fast guys seem to run anything but .20's except for McMahon who typically runs .18's and Jeff Brown typically runs .22's. Everyone else seems stuck on .20's normally and with the info you just provided I think I understnd why now. The motors that everyone typically uses on the "national circuit" are 10-8 turns so maybe the cars are just too fast to get steering with those motors. Rob and I also found out recently that a thick chassis plate like the new Trinity car has or like the old LS had will give more steering with .20's than the more flexible L3 and 6 Pack chassis. As a result since you usually have to coordinate the frequency/stiffness of the springs to the rigidity of the chassis it makes sense why I and others like McMahon were using .18's. I think the downfall is that on high bite (black groove sticky) tracks especially tight course layouts the flexible chassis loses corner speed to the stiffer one and want to traction roll more often. Contrary to what most people say I find it harder to take traction out and still have a well balanced good driving car that has corner speed than to put traction in and have all of that. I think we less experienced racers (compared to the top 10) forget that it's not just enough for the car to be easy to drive and to turn into a corner but that it MUST have corner speed THROUGH the corner AND be efficient. I wonder if mod places more of a premium on this than stock where you seem to run up to the corner and turn and as long as the car turns well you're good it seems. I think Dave S said that he gained more of an appreciation for what it really takes to run mod 12th and make it look easy. I would be interested in him or others elaborating on this subject and any others they think of. Good to see you Rob and thanks for the T-bar info especially since he said he can do the graphite with a slot. This type of t-bar will really last and give greater consistency and I need to e-m so that we can set something up. To everyone out there let's take advantage of this info Rob gave us because in case you didn't know this is something that a lot of the top guys do themselves. When you find a t-bar that really locks your car in it is nice to have more of them for when they wear out which can usually be seen I have found out in the last year by the "stress" marks (light areas especially around the "T" part that bolts to the pod. Also, different thicknesses of T-bar I have re-learned are a major source of tuning to help turn-in, corner speed, and traction roll at big races and many will normally run something on the order of an .078-.080 for a t-bar where as normally at home they may run a .073-.074. Is there a real difference you may wonder? Take a .073 and compare it's rigidity with a .075 and let me know what you guys think maybe even try them back to back. Boy, Indy is next week, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I still have to get tires, batteries and another Parma body for painting. Then 10 days after that the Carpet Nats in Cali, oh boy, oh boy, oh really big boy.
#634
Tech Regular
dave,
I will have to do some testing again with the caps. For some reason all my caps now are 16V 480micro farad GOLD striped ones. This is only if you want to get really picky with your punch. You can alter the throttle curve and power delivery by altering the amount of voltage and capacity of the cap. In offroad and onroad I HATE punch it is less efficient and can cost you if you goose it and spin or goose it and miss your jump timing. So, in my book at least smoother is better. I have noticed that the 16v gold stripe caps have a consistent smooth power delivery, whereas the ones that come with the C2 and TC2 are somewhat jumpy(mine were 10v) and they also made me slower because it completely changed the characteristics of my run. The car would get up to about 1/4 throttle and then pitch sideways because the cap would be in the middle of its dumping process. For some reason the 16v caps seem to be more linear in their power. As for using the 480 farad cap, Again, in keeping with smoothness, I prefer to run a smaller cap rather than no cap just for runtime purposes. I have found that using the smaller size cap is more efficient. This is the only analogy that I can use to explain for the guys that dont follow. It has been my experience that a smaller glass of water will fill faster and empty quicker and smoother than a large glass of water, you also dont need that much water in the glass for what we are doing. I also tried out a 10K micro farad cap and that was ridiculous, the car had so much punch you could barely keep it on the track. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have found that the magic cap size for the Cyclone at least is 480micro farad and 16v(gold stripe)
Should I get into LRP products(I already have 2 v7.1's for my offroad cars just havent strapped em in yet)I will have to do this all over again. Using the LRP stuff is like having a string attached to the throttle on your car, I have never experienced a throttle that is so smooth and easy to get a "feel" for, that is why I am switching over. Novak products have been good to me but they arent helping me go any faster.
IKE
I will have to do some testing again with the caps. For some reason all my caps now are 16V 480micro farad GOLD striped ones. This is only if you want to get really picky with your punch. You can alter the throttle curve and power delivery by altering the amount of voltage and capacity of the cap. In offroad and onroad I HATE punch it is less efficient and can cost you if you goose it and spin or goose it and miss your jump timing. So, in my book at least smoother is better. I have noticed that the 16v gold stripe caps have a consistent smooth power delivery, whereas the ones that come with the C2 and TC2 are somewhat jumpy(mine were 10v) and they also made me slower because it completely changed the characteristics of my run. The car would get up to about 1/4 throttle and then pitch sideways because the cap would be in the middle of its dumping process. For some reason the 16v caps seem to be more linear in their power. As for using the 480 farad cap, Again, in keeping with smoothness, I prefer to run a smaller cap rather than no cap just for runtime purposes. I have found that using the smaller size cap is more efficient. This is the only analogy that I can use to explain for the guys that dont follow. It has been my experience that a smaller glass of water will fill faster and empty quicker and smoother than a large glass of water, you also dont need that much water in the glass for what we are doing. I also tried out a 10K micro farad cap and that was ridiculous, the car had so much punch you could barely keep it on the track. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have found that the magic cap size for the Cyclone at least is 480micro farad and 16v(gold stripe)
Should I get into LRP products(I already have 2 v7.1's for my offroad cars just havent strapped em in yet)I will have to do this all over again. Using the LRP stuff is like having a string attached to the throttle on your car, I have never experienced a throttle that is so smooth and easy to get a "feel" for, that is why I am switching over. Novak products have been good to me but they arent helping me go any faster.
IKE
#635
Tech Regular
#636
Tech Elite
iTrader: (5)
Originally posted by darnold
Hey Rob and Jonny what's up?
Socko now it makes sense why people have been able to run .22's. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me because I couldn't get enough steering and none of the Fast guys seem to run anything but .20's except for McMahon who typically runs .18's and Jeff Brown typically runs .22's. Everyone else seems stuck on .20's normally and with the info you just provided I think I understnd why now.
The motors that everyone typically uses on the "national circuit" are 10-8 turns so maybe the cars are just too fast to get steering with those motors.
Rob and I also found out recently that a thick chassis plate like the new Trinity car has or like the old LS had will give more steering with .20's than the more flexible L3 and 6 Pack chassis. As a result since you usually have to coordinate the frequency/stiffness of the springs to the rigidity of the chassis it makes sense why I and others like McMahon were using .18's.
I think the downfall is that on high bite (black groove sticky) tracks especially tight course layouts the flexible chassis loses corner speed to the stiffer one and want to traction roll more often.
Contrary to what most people say I find it harder to take traction out and still have a well balanced good driving car that has corner speed than to put traction in and have all of that. I think we less experienced racers (compared to the top 10) forget that it's not just enough for the car to be easy to drive and to turn into a corner but that it MUST have corner speed THROUGH the corner AND be efficient.
I wonder if mod places more of a premium on this than stock where you seem to run up to the corner and turn and as long as the car turns well you're good it seems. I think Dave S said that he gained more of an appreciation for what it really takes to run mod 12th and make it look easy.
I would be interested in him or others elaborating on this subject and any others they think of. Good to see you Rob and thanks for the T-bar info especially since he said he can do the graphite with a slot. This type of t-bar will really last and give greater consistency and I need to e-m so that we can set something up. To everyone out there let's take advantage of this info Rob gave us because in case you didn't know this is something that a lot of the top guys do themselves.
When you find a t-bar that really locks your car in it is nice to have more of them for when they wear out which can usually be seen I have found out in the last year by the "stress" marks (light areas especially around the "T" part that bolts to the pod.
Also, different thicknesses of T-bar I have re-learned are a major source of tuning to help turn-in, corner speed, and traction roll at big races and many will normally run something on the order of an .078-.080 for a t-bar where as normally at home they may run a .073-.074. Is there a real difference you may wonder?
Take a .073 and compare it's rigidity with a .075 and let me know what you guys think maybe even try them back to back. Boy, Indy is next week, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I still have to get tires, batteries and another Parma body for painting. Then 10 days after that the Carpet Nats in Cali, oh boy, oh boy, oh really big boy.
Hey Rob and Jonny what's up?
Socko now it makes sense why people have been able to run .22's. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me because I couldn't get enough steering and none of the Fast guys seem to run anything but .20's except for McMahon who typically runs .18's and Jeff Brown typically runs .22's. Everyone else seems stuck on .20's normally and with the info you just provided I think I understnd why now.
The motors that everyone typically uses on the "national circuit" are 10-8 turns so maybe the cars are just too fast to get steering with those motors.
Rob and I also found out recently that a thick chassis plate like the new Trinity car has or like the old LS had will give more steering with .20's than the more flexible L3 and 6 Pack chassis. As a result since you usually have to coordinate the frequency/stiffness of the springs to the rigidity of the chassis it makes sense why I and others like McMahon were using .18's.
I think the downfall is that on high bite (black groove sticky) tracks especially tight course layouts the flexible chassis loses corner speed to the stiffer one and want to traction roll more often.
Contrary to what most people say I find it harder to take traction out and still have a well balanced good driving car that has corner speed than to put traction in and have all of that. I think we less experienced racers (compared to the top 10) forget that it's not just enough for the car to be easy to drive and to turn into a corner but that it MUST have corner speed THROUGH the corner AND be efficient.
I wonder if mod places more of a premium on this than stock where you seem to run up to the corner and turn and as long as the car turns well you're good it seems. I think Dave S said that he gained more of an appreciation for what it really takes to run mod 12th and make it look easy.
I would be interested in him or others elaborating on this subject and any others they think of. Good to see you Rob and thanks for the T-bar info especially since he said he can do the graphite with a slot. This type of t-bar will really last and give greater consistency and I need to e-m so that we can set something up. To everyone out there let's take advantage of this info Rob gave us because in case you didn't know this is something that a lot of the top guys do themselves.
When you find a t-bar that really locks your car in it is nice to have more of them for when they wear out which can usually be seen I have found out in the last year by the "stress" marks (light areas especially around the "T" part that bolts to the pod.
Also, different thicknesses of T-bar I have re-learned are a major source of tuning to help turn-in, corner speed, and traction roll at big races and many will normally run something on the order of an .078-.080 for a t-bar where as normally at home they may run a .073-.074. Is there a real difference you may wonder?
Take a .073 and compare it's rigidity with a .075 and let me know what you guys think maybe even try them back to back. Boy, Indy is next week, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I still have to get tires, batteries and another Parma body for painting. Then 10 days after that the Carpet Nats in Cali, oh boy, oh boy, oh really big boy.
#637
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Foams- Thanks I'm about to look it over. Do you think you can get an idea on the LRP caps by their size/weight? They are pretty heavy compared to Novak stuff and I think they actually had some gold color on the leads. Like I said earlier though they are painted blue and so it's hard to tell exactly. I am going to call Associated in the next couple of minutes to let them know about the speedo issue and heck, maybe Sean Cochran can bring a replacement with him to Indy if he is coming? To be honest he has a lot better things to do with his time so I wouldn't expect it. Just sort of a "wish". I probably will not be sending it in until next week around the Indy Race anyway so we will see. Associated is really a great company so I am sure things will run smoothly.
#638
Tech Regular
Isnt Billy Easton the LRP guy for the states? Maybe he knows whats up with the cap size and voltage. I just ended up going to my local electronics supply company and they have huge bins full of caps and I sort through them and pick the best one.
The guy from Windtunnel said that he can do it out of carbon fiber but only in .080 thickness. I asked Josh about this and he hasnt responded yet but I will let you know what he says. My fear is that with the added rigidity of the carbon it will make the T-Bar much stiffer.
IKE
The guy from Windtunnel said that he can do it out of carbon fiber but only in .080 thickness. I asked Josh about this and he hasnt responded yet but I will let you know what he says. My fear is that with the added rigidity of the carbon it will make the T-Bar much stiffer.
IKE
#639
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Just talked to Associated. Brad was really helpful and Billy was next to him so I asked him to tell him I said hellow to which Billy said hey. I think Billy would know the values but since LRP has painted them I am not sure they want those values disclosed. Brad told me that the Lifetime Warranty was only through the European Arm so I am going to e-m LRP to find out the scoop and see if that will retro over here anytime soon. One nice thing Brad said is that the aver cost of repair through Assoc. only runs $15-$30. He also told me to try re-programming the ESC and then check my run time and to also after that try a new rx pack both of which I had been thinking myself of trying. It looks good that the ESC still functions correctly and I think/Hope that the re-programming is the ticket. I think it happened Saturday with that one run of stock because I was perplexed as to why my batteries were so hot and I had no runtime left in them when I was done! So the LRP Quantum may not be damaged after all I will see on Thurs. LORD will when I go practice again.
#640
Tech Regular
*****crosses fingers and hopes that it is just a bad receiver pack******* and what is this Europeans only get the lifetime warranty crap??????Sheesh they should only sell them to the guys from Europe then.
IKE
IKE
#641
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Foams- Just sent an e-m about 5min or so ago to LRP to ask about that issue. We will see. I noticed that you mentioned "...hope it's the rx pack..". You seem to have a background in electronics so what do you think it may be? Do you think that the ESC moved out of it's program and that resetting it will help or do you think it's more of the rx pack and if so why? I really do think the LRP's are awesome and my friend Sagie who is here from Japan working told me last night that the LRP's are even more popular and liked in Japan than the Keyance. He also told me about some new ESC called a Dennon or something that is about 60% the size of the Quantum and that in Japan it is gaining a rep for runtime (speed also).
#642
Tech Regular
Dave,
You said that it happened on Saturday right? But you ran last night. Does that mean that it was just the one time? It could have been something as simple as when you ran the stock motor it put to much resistance into the speedo and it got hot and re-set itself. It could be the RX pack didnt take a charge or maybe one of the cells died in that and that cause a big enough voltage dump for the ESC to reset. There are alot of things that it could be to be honest with you. If I were in your situation I would put a new receiver pack in make sure your batts take a "normal" charge, turn a motor that you run with all the time, and go out and see what happens. Also, it never hurts to slap a heatsink on an ESC Just In Case right? hehehehe the biggest thing here is did you change anything when the speedo died? Yes, you changed the motor and you also went to a larger capacitor, so go back to your original settings and see what happens. get everything back to the way it was before it all went south and see what ya come up with. Hope this helps alittle bit.
IKe
You said that it happened on Saturday right? But you ran last night. Does that mean that it was just the one time? It could have been something as simple as when you ran the stock motor it put to much resistance into the speedo and it got hot and re-set itself. It could be the RX pack didnt take a charge or maybe one of the cells died in that and that cause a big enough voltage dump for the ESC to reset. There are alot of things that it could be to be honest with you. If I were in your situation I would put a new receiver pack in make sure your batts take a "normal" charge, turn a motor that you run with all the time, and go out and see what happens. Also, it never hurts to slap a heatsink on an ESC Just In Case right? hehehehe the biggest thing here is did you change anything when the speedo died? Yes, you changed the motor and you also went to a larger capacitor, so go back to your original settings and see what happens. get everything back to the way it was before it all went south and see what ya come up with. Hope this helps alittle bit.
IKe
#643
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Foams- Thanks for the info. Actually for clarification sake I ran it once in stock on Saturday and then one time on Sat. in between rounds with my mod. I noticed after the stock run that the main packs were really hot but didn't think too much of it because I had to drive strapped due to the packs being the Powers which work pretty well in 12th mod but not in stock. I also remember going "hmmm" when I ran the one mod run later that Saturday in between rounds because I dumped around around 6.5-6.45 min mark when I expected to make it to the 7.5min mark before going soft with my 8turn. I went out and practiced last night from 6-10pm and in every run I dumped (got really soft) around 6.5min and ran for another 30-45 sec. slow. My rx pack takes it normal charge peaking off at it normal voltage range of 9.5v (it's a 5 cell pk) and the batteries weren't hot. My ESC temp went from the 75degrees I remember it feeling when I first got it to about 85deg. Warmer but not "Hot" nor "Too Hot To Touch" feeling, just noticably warmer. The thought of rx pack being bad came to mind and Jucha and switched off the rx pk and switched on the normal ESC power and it ran the same...dumped. I will re-set it and see what it does and then I will put a new rx pk in just in case especially since Indy and the Nats are up. Hopefully this sheds a more complete picture. I agree with you that maybe the heat from running a stock strapped in punch mode 3 was too much (should have been in punch mode 5 for stock) and maybe it re-set itself.
#644
Evening all...wow, ya'll have been busy today..took awhile to read everything........I'm running a Tekin G12C111...its a little on the big side for 1/12, but it hasnt missed a lick....I've used Novaks since the T-4....i have a Cyclone in my TC.....I want to get an Atom for my 1/12.....also a smaller RX......Didnt get to race this weekend...but i was "thinking" about racing .........
Socko.....I'm gonna put my 11 double in soon...may be after you've moved though....
Socko.....I'm gonna put my 11 double in soon...may be after you've moved though....
#645
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Dave I know that the problem is.......last weekend you did not notice but I droped a 6 turn arm in your P94 can. Thats why you cant make 7 minutes. Maybe you need to get a new ESC.....I have an old Parma wiper SC you can run in the mean time....hehehe
No I know what it is now your car got Jugga fied when you let Jugghead race it in that one qualifier thats where the problem lies. You need to sell off all you RC equiptment and get out of the hobby for one year so the Jugg's curse will run its course. And you need to burn a Losi car at his feet next time you see him.....and only refer to yourself in the 3rd person.
Hope this helps
Now back to fighting internet crime...............
No I know what it is now your car got Jugga fied when you let Jugghead race it in that one qualifier thats where the problem lies. You need to sell off all you RC equiptment and get out of the hobby for one year so the Jugg's curse will run its course. And you need to burn a Losi car at his feet next time you see him.....and only refer to yourself in the 3rd person.
Hope this helps
Now back to fighting internet crime...............