Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

That’s what stock 1/12 is for. GT12 was supposed to a 1/12 entry class.

Xpress

iTrader: (3)

What exactly makes something an "entry level class?" Seems to me things were better when there were fewer classes and skill was separated by round resorts with 5 heats of 1 class vs 14 classes each with 4 people...

NutDriver

iTrader: (30)

And who gets to decide what is or is not an "entry level class"??

Robbob

iTrader: (8)

Race Directors

bertrandsv87

iTrader: (2)

It is an entry level class only if entry level racers race in the class: no sandbaggers allowed...

simple

iTrader: (2)

This is actually a good question. I had to think about it…..

I’m of the opinion that we do ourselves a competitive disservice if we assume “entry-level” strictly refers to the skill of driver for which a class is intended.
I tend to think that “entry-level” is better applied to a class that facilitates easier “entry” to competition, since the “level” is lower than faster classes, and less variables need to be figured out by a driver. Meaning that specified motor, body type, maybe gear ratios, and other variables are dictated to somewhat “level” the competition. It’s then easier to get involved and be successful if you know that you have at least the right equipment to be in contention.

Separate from that, qualifiers naturally separate the like skill levels into groups, as any good proper race director would do.
so really, entry-level only logically should apply to the general level of difficulty of a class. Spec(entry-level) classes are typically cost and speed controlled relative to open classes.

kn7671

iTrader: (16)

Agree, Entry-Level is a description for the cost or ease of access to race competitively.

Novice class would be the more appropriate term used to describe low-skilled or unexperienced racers.

Amateur class would be used for 100% non-sponsored racers

From there we go up, Stock, Super Stock, Mod, Pro, Expert, over 40+, etc.

OlivierWierda

I was listening to a podcast from Lefty, and from him I learned just how many classes you guys run.. it's madness! Why not copy what we do in Europe? We have mostly: 'spec' stock, modified, FWD cars and F1 class. With 'spec' stock all running a mandated motor and ESC combo + handout preglued tyres, modified using only handout tyres. FWD and F1 classes sometimes run spec motors and esc's too, but most of the time it's a minimum amount of motor turns like 13.5t with a spec (rubber) tyre. With only four classes you will still have this 'natural' progression: 'fun' drivers will mainly stay in fwd and F1, people that aspire to drive mod or just like driving TC will drive stock, and the people with big aspirations will enter modified.

This way, if you are at an event with 200 registrations, imho it means way more to win the C final in stock with a stacked field of +-100 drivers in the same class, than winning the A in 'amateur' with 13 entries...

Now for the 'pro drivers' crying about 'having to race with amateurs!!!!!!', if you do seeded practice over a field of 100 drivers, the top qualy heat will be stacked, so in some way, the pressure is on them, just run a good practice, and a 'pro' will never ever be in the same qualifier and or final heat as an 'amateur'.

Sorry for the rant, as a EU guy your classes just seem kinda over the top to me.

Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

We like options.
Each track is independent. You can find completely different classes popular at different tracks. Even in the same state.
Smaller turnout, more class per driver. More money for track. Sometimes it’s the track size that determines what classes run

Not run at a track yet that runs a handout motor class yet. But one I do this morning posted they are considering it for their stock 1/12. Having hard time drawing people to 1/12

simple

iTrader: (2)

At the risk of splitting hairs even further ......

In our context, "Class" is short form for Classification.
Typical "Classes" that are currently included in indoor on-road racing (TC, 12th, F1, FWD) are further segmented by the rulesets, depending on the club preferences and any affiliations with other organizations (ROAR, US VTA/GT, etc)
Every club is free to determine what suits their location and the preference of the locals.
I find that the most successful clubs are adept at navigating the vacillating tide of new product fads and technology developments, while maintaining a sense of democratic decision making.

Bringing it back to GT12 in the USA (North America including Canada), the "12th Scale Class" saw a re-invigoration of participation a couple years ago with the introduction of rubber tires, GT bodies, and Spec motors - all slapped onto a pan chassis. Some locations in the US found it suited them best (entirely their prerogative) to stick with foam tires, and that worked for them.
Whatever the case - the formula has proved marginally successful - in whatever flavor - to keep the 12th scale class alive.

Kruss45

why do you say it was “marginally successful “? At my track it brought people who had never ran 1/12 before into the class so I’m curious about why you think the introduction of running rubber tires is only marginally successful.

mrreet2001

iTrader: (9)

I think he means marginally successful at bringing people to the traditional 12th scale class. I would say that 12GT is a very successful class on it own, but are you seeing it bring more people to the regular 12th scale class (13.5/17.5 12th LMP)?

Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

Locally it gone backwards. Instead of being the entry class for on road for new or coming from off road. It become just a second class for the long active 1/12 drivers. Same guys top 3-5 in stock 1/12 are same in GT12.

Now maybe this fall that changes when more comeback after summer.

simple

iTrader: (2)

Marginally means "to a limited extent". My frame of reference was for the entire market as a whole, not limited to explicit individual facilities.
- Its great that at YOUR track it was successful at bringing absolutely new drivers - as you know - that was the original intent. I can't speak to the same success throughout the tracks in North America. As some have and will testify, that hasn't always been the result. Some organizers were totally put-off by the initial difficulties in acquiring suitable inventory of rubber wheels - some tracks dropped them entirely out of frustration.
- Its also great that it was included as a class at a few National level events - hopefully that continues.

I simply meant to imply that there was some significant inventory and supply hick-ups during the first couple years - and it is yet to be determined if it will stand the test of time.
Its a notable risk when an entire specification of class is single sourced for a critical component.

simple

iTrader: (2)

Our club has faced a similar dynamic, albeit certainly not backwards.
We've had more members get back into 12th scale, when they had left the class for touring car classes instead.
Less so "new" to 12th scale.
It definitely helped to establish participation in 12th, where it had all but disappeared locally just prior to the pandemic.
WE always had 12th scale racers in our club - but the challenge was getting enough to show up on the same day to justify running the class. That's NOT a problem anymore. And I firmly believe we can thank the rubber wheels for that.