5LikesSC10 4x4 Thread
04-23-2012 | 05:31 AM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (11)
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 877
From: Connecticut
I'm in the process of building my sc10 4x4 and noticed that my orion 550 doesn't sit flat on the chassis. When I position it so that it's flat against the motor plate, that end of the motor is not resting on the chassis. It's not as big as the novak ballistic 550 that requires more modification (dremmeling and opening up the center chassis) to get the motor in place and sit flat.
However, does everyone who has a 550 motor have to do some dremmeling to the chassis to have the motor sit flat?
Sorry if this is a basic question. I also didn't see it posted on my search of this thread.
However, does everyone who has a 550 motor have to do some dremmeling to the chassis to have the motor sit flat?
Sorry if this is a basic question. I also didn't see it posted on my search of this thread.
04-23-2012 | 05:38 AM
And yes, our track is VERY loose!!!
Does anyone know when RC Shox is going to release the center diff? With all the rip off's going on in here I really don't want to pay for the diff and then have to wait forever to get it...
04-23-2012 | 05:50 AM
Thanks for the input, where did you get the diagram to build this for the rear hubs? I've always been told raising the outside of the camber link actually makes it looser? Raising the inner picks up traction?
And yes, our track is VERY loose!!!
Does anyone know when RC Shox is going to release the center diff? With all the rip off's going on in here I really don't want to pay for the diff and then have to wait forever to get it...
And yes, our track is VERY loose!!!
Does anyone know when RC Shox is going to release the center diff? With all the rip off's going on in here I really don't want to pay for the diff and then have to wait forever to get it...
1.This is exactly what i have been told and experienced myself too which is why i am skeptical on trying it since my last testing I ended up lowering RC by putting spacers under the inside link which is opposite of what everyone is doing with this mod???? With that being said I am making some of the hub mod plates for Cam to try out sometime this week.
2. I am not ripping anyone off!! (not that you were implying that i am!) but as you can imagine there are LOTS and LOTS of center difs that were pre-order and ALL of them will go out today. just like any high demand part goes, the longer you wait to order the further back in the line you get. if you were to order today i should be able to have it shipped out by the end of the week, maybe sooner.
04-23-2012 | 06:01 AM
1.This is exactly what i have been told and experienced myself too which is why i am skeptical on trying it since my last testing I ended up lowering RC by putting spacers under the inside link which is opposite of what everyone is doing with this mod???? With that being said I am making some of the hub mod plates for Cam to try out sometime this week.
2. I am not ripping anyone off!! (not that you were implying that i am!) but as you can imagine there are LOTS and LOTS of center difs that were pre-order and ALL of them will go out today. just like any high demand part goes, the longer you wait to order the further back in the line you get. if you were to order today i should be able to have it shipped out by the end of the week, maybe sooner.
2. I am not ripping anyone off!! (not that you were implying that i am!) but as you can imagine there are LOTS and LOTS of center difs that were pre-order and ALL of them will go out today. just like any high demand part goes, the longer you wait to order the further back in the line you get. if you were to order today i should be able to have it shipped out by the end of the week, maybe sooner.
I look forward to adding this to my somewhat futile attempts to make this truck handle
04-23-2012 | 06:27 AM
Certainly NOT saying you were "Ripping anyone off" but I have had CC#'s stolen, and have been taken several times buying items through RC tech so i'm a little hesitant. Funny, I've checked the RC Shox web 3 times a day to see if they are available for the past month but it always said back ordered and in the posts it says do NOT contact and ask when it would be available. I know you probably get a hundred emails a day asking that so i've been waiting patiently I look forward to adding this to my somewhat futile attempts to make this truck handle
I look forward to adding this to my somewhat futile attempts to make this truck handleIts all good, I have been screwed myself on more than one occasion. Unfortunately just like the V1 dif they are rarely ever "in stock" i just cant make enough at one time mainly because i can only get a certain amount of AE spur gears at any given time. It took me a month to gather enough for the pre-orders! so my suggestion is to order ASAP and get in line otherwise its unlikely that you will order and it will ship on the same day UNLESS you order this week because i will have a few extra's.
FYI my website is run through Paypal direct so you are protected against any kind of CC fraud.
04-23-2012 | 06:29 AM
Tech Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,031
From: netherlands
1.This is exactly what i have been told and experienced myself too which is why i am skeptical on trying it since my last testing I ended up lowering RC by putting spacers under the inside link which is opposite of what everyone is doing with this mod???? With that being said I am making some of the hub mod plates for Cam to try out sometime this week.
.
.
All I know it does help me ALOT !!!!, I can push my truck harder, I can powerslide coming out of the corners.
I do not know If the griplevel or surface we drive on is of influance. I drive on low/med grip hardpacked dirt.
here is my track and truck
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
04-23-2012 | 06:39 AM
Why it helps my truck controlable, I do not know, Im not so very good and technical.
All I know it does help me ALOT !!!!, I can push my truck harder, I can powerslide coming out of the corners.
I do not know If the griplevel or surface we drive on is of influance. I drive on low/med grip hardpacked dirt.
here is my track and truck
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
All I know it does help me ALOT !!!!, I can push my truck harder, I can powerslide coming out of the corners.
I do not know If the griplevel or surface we drive on is of influance. I drive on low/med grip hardpacked dirt.
here is my track and truck
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...5808268&type=1
04-23-2012 | 07:50 AM
I asked a AE engineer who shall remain nameless so he does not get blasted with questions but here is what he told me about raising and lowering rear camber.
Me: I can't find info out there about rear camber links, and we chatted before about it. All things being the same. Raising the inside and out side of the link up 2mm should make what happen. I assume the opposite would take place to lower them both 2mm. Is it as simple as high bite lower is better and low bite higher is better kind of thing? Tight track vs. larger sweeping corner track? I just want to make sure what I think is happening on the track is correct.
Him: Sorry to get back to you kinda late on this, I had read it on my phone and meant to reply later but forgot.
You are basically correct. when you raise both inside and outside you are going to be lowering the roll center, which creates a larger lever arm for the car's CG. As a result the car rolls more when both are raised. When grip is low and you are trying to make the tires work as hard as possible and the ones that should be doing the most are the outside tires, because when the car has more roll it is able to transfer more weight quicker. Thats what makes the car feel like it has more traction. However, if you try and use that same setup on high bite you are likely going to traction roll because now the car is able to transfer too much weight too quickly because the suspension links act less 'rigid' initially and then CG is able to generate too much force for that length lever.
When you lower both then you have raised the roll center and as a result for a same given lateral acceleration as before the car will not roll as much. This will help prevent the car from traction rolling due to excessive body roll, and will help distribute the work load to all of the tires, and thus you can achieve higher cornering speeds.
When picturing this affect you can think of a Jeep cherokee vs a corvette taking a corner at a given speed, the jeep will generate more body roll. But you got the right thinking going, and should be pretty noticeable raising and lowering the links. Another thing to consider is that when you lower both or just lower the inside location, you will also be increasing camber gain. Which can affect mid-corner stability, which would only be worse at higher speeds.
Hope all this dribble helps, if not let me know and I will try to clarify!
Me: More blah blah stuff.
Him: Well the other thing I have found is that when you do raise the roll center it can give you the feeling that the car has more grip or more stable coming off of a straight. However, then the issue becomes that the car doesnt feel like it wants to rotate around tight corners as well, but this experience is from our other 1/10 cars. The 4x4 is a little edgier so maybe it helps balance it out. But in general I would think on that truck that lowering inside is better.
So from all of this, this past weekend was our first outdoor race of the year year. Loose top soil with hard pack under it. Very smooth track but you power slide out of corners and most of the time in. You have loads of tire spin basically. My normal rear link is stock with 2mm under the inside. I raised the outside 4mm (all I could do with the hot racing hubs) and the inside to 5mm (all I can do with the stock ball stud) and the truck was better. More controlled for sure around the track drifting in and out of corners. I did drop from the blue rear bar to the orange one also and that helped. I custom made a tab to raise the outside 8mm but the quality of the material was poor and I did not run it in fear of breaking it. So next weekend I should be able to test Kody's/WC rear tab idea with a longer inner ball stud and taller outer tab. Not sure yet of the effects on high bite but for outdoors I see it being an improvement with the loose dirt.
Me: I can't find info out there about rear camber links, and we chatted before about it. All things being the same. Raising the inside and out side of the link up 2mm should make what happen. I assume the opposite would take place to lower them both 2mm. Is it as simple as high bite lower is better and low bite higher is better kind of thing? Tight track vs. larger sweeping corner track? I just want to make sure what I think is happening on the track is correct.
Him: Sorry to get back to you kinda late on this, I had read it on my phone and meant to reply later but forgot.
You are basically correct. when you raise both inside and outside you are going to be lowering the roll center, which creates a larger lever arm for the car's CG. As a result the car rolls more when both are raised. When grip is low and you are trying to make the tires work as hard as possible and the ones that should be doing the most are the outside tires, because when the car has more roll it is able to transfer more weight quicker. Thats what makes the car feel like it has more traction. However, if you try and use that same setup on high bite you are likely going to traction roll because now the car is able to transfer too much weight too quickly because the suspension links act less 'rigid' initially and then CG is able to generate too much force for that length lever.
When you lower both then you have raised the roll center and as a result for a same given lateral acceleration as before the car will not roll as much. This will help prevent the car from traction rolling due to excessive body roll, and will help distribute the work load to all of the tires, and thus you can achieve higher cornering speeds.
When picturing this affect you can think of a Jeep cherokee vs a corvette taking a corner at a given speed, the jeep will generate more body roll. But you got the right thinking going, and should be pretty noticeable raising and lowering the links. Another thing to consider is that when you lower both or just lower the inside location, you will also be increasing camber gain. Which can affect mid-corner stability, which would only be worse at higher speeds.
Hope all this dribble helps, if not let me know and I will try to clarify!
Me: More blah blah stuff.
Him: Well the other thing I have found is that when you do raise the roll center it can give you the feeling that the car has more grip or more stable coming off of a straight. However, then the issue becomes that the car doesnt feel like it wants to rotate around tight corners as well, but this experience is from our other 1/10 cars. The 4x4 is a little edgier so maybe it helps balance it out. But in general I would think on that truck that lowering inside is better.
So from all of this, this past weekend was our first outdoor race of the year year. Loose top soil with hard pack under it. Very smooth track but you power slide out of corners and most of the time in. You have loads of tire spin basically. My normal rear link is stock with 2mm under the inside. I raised the outside 4mm (all I could do with the hot racing hubs) and the inside to 5mm (all I can do with the stock ball stud) and the truck was better. More controlled for sure around the track drifting in and out of corners. I did drop from the blue rear bar to the orange one also and that helped. I custom made a tab to raise the outside 8mm but the quality of the material was poor and I did not run it in fear of breaking it. So next weekend I should be able to test Kody's/WC rear tab idea with a longer inner ball stud and taller outer tab. Not sure yet of the effects on high bite but for outdoors I see it being an improvement with the loose dirt.
04-23-2012 | 07:59 AM
Tech Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,192
From: São Paulo, Brazil
I dont not believe you!! just like everything else, what makes sense on paper may or may not work in reality!! i will try it out this weekend. In theory what that mod should do is give initial rear bite and then loosen up grip towards turn exit which sounds like what you are experiencing. the reason i ended up going with shorter rear link and lower RC was because i was having traction roll issues on a particular track. I noticed that the AE boys were raising the outside points by about 8mm and also raising the inside point by 5 or 6 and honestly i have no idea what thats going to do!
04-23-2012 | 08:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,719
From: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
Yes.
04-23-2012 | 08:36 AM
Sc10 FACTORY TEAM 4x4
Hey guys got this truck dosent suit my driving if anyone interested
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...l#post10641096
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...l#post10641096
04-23-2012 | 08:38 AM
I asked a AE engineer who shall remain nameless so he does not get blasted with questions but here is what he told me about raising and lowering rear camber.
Me: I can't find info out there about rear camber links, and we chatted before about it. All things being the same. Raising the inside and out side of the link up 2mm should make what happen. I assume the opposite would take place to lower them both 2mm. Is it as simple as high bite lower is better and low bite higher is better kind of thing? Tight track vs. larger sweeping corner track? I just want to make sure what I think is happening on the track is correct.
Him: Sorry to get back to you kinda late on this, I had read it on my phone and meant to reply later but forgot.
You are basically correct. when you raise both inside and outside you are going to be lowering the roll center, which creates a larger lever arm for the car's CG. As a result the car rolls more when both are raised. When grip is low and you are trying to make the tires work as hard as possible and the ones that should be doing the most are the outside tires, because when the car has more roll it is able to transfer more weight quicker. Thats what makes the car feel like it has more traction. However, if you try and use that same setup on high bite you are likely going to traction roll because now the car is able to transfer too much weight too quickly because the suspension links act less 'rigid' initially and then CG is able to generate too much force for that length lever.
When you lower both then you have raised the roll center and as a result for a same given lateral acceleration as before the car will not roll as much. This will help prevent the car from traction rolling due to excessive body roll, and will help distribute the work load to all of the tires, and thus you can achieve higher cornering speeds.
When picturing this affect you can think of a Jeep cherokee vs a corvette taking a corner at a given speed, the jeep will generate more body roll. But you got the right thinking going, and should be pretty noticeable raising and lowering the links. Another thing to consider is that when you lower both or just lower the inside location, you will also be increasing camber gain. Which can affect mid-corner stability, which would only be worse at higher speeds.
Hope all this dribble helps, if not let me know and I will try to clarify!
Me: More blah blah stuff.
Him: Well the other thing I have found is that when you do raise the roll center it can give you the feeling that the car has more grip or more stable coming off of a straight. However, then the issue becomes that the car doesnt feel like it wants to rotate around tight corners as well, but this experience is from our other 1/10 cars. The 4x4 is a little edgier so maybe it helps balance it out. But in general I would think on that truck that lowering inside is better.
So from all of this, this past weekend was our first outdoor race of the year year. Loose top soil with hard pack under it. Very smooth track but you power slide out of corners and most of the time in. You have loads of tire spin basically. My normal rear link is stock with 2mm under the inside. I raised the outside 4mm (all I could do with the hot racing hubs) and the inside to 5mm (all I can do with the stock ball stud) and the truck was better. More controlled for sure around the track drifting in and out of corners. I did drop from the blue rear bar to the orange one also and that helped. I custom made a tab to raise the outside 8mm but the quality of the material was poor and I did not run it in fear of breaking it. So next weekend I should be able to test Kody's/WC rear tab idea with a longer inner ball stud and taller outer tab. Not sure yet of the effects on high bite but for outdoors I see it being an improvement with the loose dirt.
Me: I can't find info out there about rear camber links, and we chatted before about it. All things being the same. Raising the inside and out side of the link up 2mm should make what happen. I assume the opposite would take place to lower them both 2mm. Is it as simple as high bite lower is better and low bite higher is better kind of thing? Tight track vs. larger sweeping corner track? I just want to make sure what I think is happening on the track is correct.
Him: Sorry to get back to you kinda late on this, I had read it on my phone and meant to reply later but forgot.
You are basically correct. when you raise both inside and outside you are going to be lowering the roll center, which creates a larger lever arm for the car's CG. As a result the car rolls more when both are raised. When grip is low and you are trying to make the tires work as hard as possible and the ones that should be doing the most are the outside tires, because when the car has more roll it is able to transfer more weight quicker. Thats what makes the car feel like it has more traction. However, if you try and use that same setup on high bite you are likely going to traction roll because now the car is able to transfer too much weight too quickly because the suspension links act less 'rigid' initially and then CG is able to generate too much force for that length lever.
When you lower both then you have raised the roll center and as a result for a same given lateral acceleration as before the car will not roll as much. This will help prevent the car from traction rolling due to excessive body roll, and will help distribute the work load to all of the tires, and thus you can achieve higher cornering speeds.
When picturing this affect you can think of a Jeep cherokee vs a corvette taking a corner at a given speed, the jeep will generate more body roll. But you got the right thinking going, and should be pretty noticeable raising and lowering the links. Another thing to consider is that when you lower both or just lower the inside location, you will also be increasing camber gain. Which can affect mid-corner stability, which would only be worse at higher speeds.
Hope all this dribble helps, if not let me know and I will try to clarify!
Me: More blah blah stuff.
Him: Well the other thing I have found is that when you do raise the roll center it can give you the feeling that the car has more grip or more stable coming off of a straight. However, then the issue becomes that the car doesnt feel like it wants to rotate around tight corners as well, but this experience is from our other 1/10 cars. The 4x4 is a little edgier so maybe it helps balance it out. But in general I would think on that truck that lowering inside is better.
So from all of this, this past weekend was our first outdoor race of the year year. Loose top soil with hard pack under it. Very smooth track but you power slide out of corners and most of the time in. You have loads of tire spin basically. My normal rear link is stock with 2mm under the inside. I raised the outside 4mm (all I could do with the hot racing hubs) and the inside to 5mm (all I can do with the stock ball stud) and the truck was better. More controlled for sure around the track drifting in and out of corners. I did drop from the blue rear bar to the orange one also and that helped. I custom made a tab to raise the outside 8mm but the quality of the material was poor and I did not run it in fear of breaking it. So next weekend I should be able to test Kody's/WC rear tab idea with a longer inner ball stud and taller outer tab. Not sure yet of the effects on high bite but for outdoors I see it being an improvement with the loose dirt.
interesting, now one of you needs to put this in PDF chart form so its easier to follow.....seriously!
04-23-2012 | 08:38 AM
Hey guys got this truck dosent suit my driving if anyone interested
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...l#post10641096
http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...l#post10641096
04-23-2012 | 08:41 AM
Tech Legend
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,595
From: TRCR Modified Driver
Cameron , you didn't know the rear hub mod lower`s the roll center ?
Would of told everyone when I posted the first pictures , but some here would of done their best to say I don't really know or trash me for the help .....
So I just posted the pictures to save the embarrassment ...
Those Gold 12mm ball studs are really gona fly off the shelves now....
Can tell you how it will perform on the outdoor ....
Will be
Dailed......
BTW
Kudo's to Kody for the tip ....
Would of told everyone when I posted the first pictures , but some here would of done their best to say I don't really know or trash me for the help .....
So I just posted the pictures to save the embarrassment ...
Those Gold 12mm ball studs are really gona fly off the shelves now....
Can tell you how it will perform on the outdoor ....
Will be
Dailed......
BTW
Kudo's to Kody for the tip ....
Last edited by Wild Cherry; 04-23-2012 at 08:54 AM.