5LikesSC10 4x4 Thread
02-06-2012 | 10:17 AM
Great post, Chris, thanks.
Totally agree that triple was beastly for an SC. It was cake with my ebug and nitro, but the only time I even got close to clearing it with my SC was an accident!
After the rebuild I'm going to do some corner balancing and testing. If I come up with anything that really seems to help me a lot, I'll definitely share it.
Totally agree that triple was beastly for an SC. It was cake with my ebug and nitro, but the only time I even got close to clearing it with my SC was an accident!
After the rebuild I'm going to do some corner balancing and testing. If I come up with anything that really seems to help me a lot, I'll definitely share it.
02-06-2012 | 10:22 AM
R/C Tech Elite Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,111
From: Ca
jumping: the deal is the diffs
have you guys seen /weighed a huge SCTE diff with heavy metal ring and pinion, THEY WEIGH A TON and make huge rotating mass that can control attitude easy
Every race I don't win in my sc10 4x4 is because some losi is doing a quad on a triple and ramming me in the air.
I have both 4x4's
add some lead to the diffs
have you guys seen /weighed a huge SCTE diff with heavy metal ring and pinion, THEY WEIGH A TON and make huge rotating mass that can control attitude easy
Every race I don't win in my sc10 4x4 is because some losi is doing a quad on a triple and ramming me in the air.
I have both 4x4's
add some lead to the diffs
02-06-2012 | 10:22 AM
new product ???
Time to switch over to aerodynamics mode...
Start working on the new rc shox super aero fly like a winged buggy body
ha ha ha
I think in this situation looking at that HUGE and MACH SPEED jump there is nothing mechanical that is going to give you the flight you need for that beast of a hit . It has simply hit the limitation point for our trucks.
It seems like it is the same also for 99.9999% of others as well from the comments of your self and heavy jeff that ole smiley who works and runs there daily might just have the slight edge of consistancy due to the sheer amount of laps he has run on that particular jump and a slight nod to the losi for its buggy platform and he can put his truck right at the limitation. The likes of your self , christian , and others who are solid if not true experts in tuning this and other vehicles, who have some of the most dialed in vehicles due to the r&d you both do , who are top level drivers with lots of track time , just cant get the consistancy due to the experience of running this current track set up as much as ole smiley.
Remember these are 1/10 scale and you are having problems on a jump that is massive in size distance and speed for even 1/8 scale. I watched the vids of the track and even the few (as not even a third of the 1/8 buggies were pulling it off) buggies pulling it off were just hucking into the air and then just locking it up and slapping down hard, not a fluid , flowing flight by any means. Just having the power to huck the mass , weight to carry the mommentum , and the ability to lock up the higher rotational mass of the 1/8 wheels to cause it to slap if not smash down. There had to be some serious failure rates on shocks , bladders ect on the buggies with that type of crash down.
I think it is time to go comando late night with a shovel and go knock off the top 6 inches of that hit and level out the ramp on it a bit . ha ha
Start working on the new rc shox super aero fly like a winged buggy body
ha ha ha
I think in this situation looking at that HUGE and MACH SPEED jump there is nothing mechanical that is going to give you the flight you need for that beast of a hit . It has simply hit the limitation point for our trucks.
It seems like it is the same also for 99.9999% of others as well from the comments of your self and heavy jeff that ole smiley who works and runs there daily might just have the slight edge of consistancy due to the sheer amount of laps he has run on that particular jump and a slight nod to the losi for its buggy platform and he can put his truck right at the limitation. The likes of your self , christian , and others who are solid if not true experts in tuning this and other vehicles, who have some of the most dialed in vehicles due to the r&d you both do , who are top level drivers with lots of track time , just cant get the consistancy due to the experience of running this current track set up as much as ole smiley.
Remember these are 1/10 scale and you are having problems on a jump that is massive in size distance and speed for even 1/8 scale. I watched the vids of the track and even the few (as not even a third of the 1/8 buggies were pulling it off) buggies pulling it off were just hucking into the air and then just locking it up and slapping down hard, not a fluid , flowing flight by any means. Just having the power to huck the mass , weight to carry the mommentum , and the ability to lock up the higher rotational mass of the 1/8 wheels to cause it to slap if not smash down. There had to be some serious failure rates on shocks , bladders ect on the buggies with that type of crash down.
I think it is time to go comando late night with a shovel and go knock off the top 6 inches of that hit and level out the ramp on it a bit . ha ha
02-06-2012 | 10:25 AM
jumping: the deal is the diffs
have you guys seen /weighed a huge SCTE diff with heavy metal ring and pinion, THEY WEIGH A TON and make huge rotating mass that can control attitude easy
Every race I don't win in my sc10 4x4 is because some losi is doing a quad on a triple and ramming me in the air.
I have both 4x4's
add some lead to the diffs
have you guys seen /weighed a huge SCTE diff with heavy metal ring and pinion, THEY WEIGH A TON and make huge rotating mass that can control attitude easy
Every race I don't win in my sc10 4x4 is because some losi is doing a quad on a triple and ramming me in the air.
I have both 4x4's
add some lead to the diffs
02-06-2012 | 10:34 AM
beadloc stacked
Ha ha get the rotational mass up. Stack about 3 sets of the beadlocs on each wheel , if ya can get it off the ground with that big block 4600, might be able to correct it for the jump , but man the issues that will cause with all weight through the whoops and bumps , gonna wreck havoc with the suspension action
02-06-2012 | 11:02 AM
I did put in some new diffs this past weekend for the race, and double shimmed them with the protek diff shims with 7k in the rear and had no leakage. Yay
02-06-2012 | 11:20 AM
Tech Legend
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,595
From: TRCR Modified Driver
I've never driven another brand SC 4x4 so I can't comment on that.
However, yes it is harder to adjust the attitude compared to an 1/8 but really it should be. The bodies on these things are massive and up high in the air. That combined with the lack of a rear wing make them tougher to adjust. Nine times outta ten, it's not an issue as long as you have the correct approach though.
However, yes it is harder to adjust the attitude compared to an 1/8 but really it should be. The bodies on these things are massive and up high in the air. That combined with the lack of a rear wing make them tougher to adjust. Nine times outta ten, it's not an issue as long as you have the correct approach though.
Please post the set-up your using .....
02-06-2012 | 11:25 AM
The QUAD at RC PRO Texas Race
From what I observed on Saturday, being one of the racers at the RC Pro Texas Rd 1, come Saturday, there were only 2 trucks that were clearing the jump consistently and a 3rd truck that did it 75% of the time. I had one of the 2 trucks that did it consistently - and all 3 trucks were Losi trucks. I decided to run the Losi truck as mine makes the 10 minute RC Pro Mains, where my AE, the saddle packs don't have the capacity to make more than like 9:30.
I think a lot of the issue with the jump was were people were launching on the jump. There was only about a 2-3 ft wide section on the far side of it that would launch trucks straight, if you missed it, you would nose up and parachute a lot like Marcus describes. I did it quite a bit until I walked the track and analyzed the face of the jump. Consistently Brian Henn, (who won) and myself (finished 3rd - I choked away second overall) were the only ones that would take the risk to and clear it 99% of the time. In this section you could gain about 1-2 seconds on other trucks, Brian and I used this as an advantage to make numerous air passes on other trucks.
Owning both trucks, I have to say that the Losi truck jumps a little better on our 8th scale style tracks, where the trucks are running at higher speeds. The old layout was the same way. My Losi truck made it much easier to jump the large triple than the AE. Most of our tracks out here are so big and high speed that the Losi has a slight advantage, much like how the AE might be better on tighter, more 10th scale oriented courses. The AE truck's suspension seems to bind up at high speeds becoming unstable, where the Losi seems to absorb better the irregularities on the road surface. The Losi "floats" through stuff at this track, where the AE truck kind of "bounces" by comparison on the rough stuff.
I think a lot of the issue with the jump was were people were launching on the jump. There was only about a 2-3 ft wide section on the far side of it that would launch trucks straight, if you missed it, you would nose up and parachute a lot like Marcus describes. I did it quite a bit until I walked the track and analyzed the face of the jump. Consistently Brian Henn, (who won) and myself (finished 3rd - I choked away second overall) were the only ones that would take the risk to and clear it 99% of the time. In this section you could gain about 1-2 seconds on other trucks, Brian and I used this as an advantage to make numerous air passes on other trucks.
Owning both trucks, I have to say that the Losi truck jumps a little better on our 8th scale style tracks, where the trucks are running at higher speeds. The old layout was the same way. My Losi truck made it much easier to jump the large triple than the AE. Most of our tracks out here are so big and high speed that the Losi has a slight advantage, much like how the AE might be better on tighter, more 10th scale oriented courses. The AE truck's suspension seems to bind up at high speeds becoming unstable, where the Losi seems to absorb better the irregularities on the road surface. The Losi "floats" through stuff at this track, where the AE truck kind of "bounces" by comparison on the rough stuff.
02-06-2012 | 11:47 AM
Different arm mounting maybe? The AE Arms start to bind after 2-5 runs, depending on the type of dirt. Also using captured balls instead of the ball studs used currently. With these, the suspension seems to bind and acts "squeaky" at extreme angles. My SCTE's suspension is always buttery smooth.
I also still think the roll centers are messed up on the AE Truck. Higher roll centers would allow us to run softer suspensions and get more road compliance. My SCTE's suspension feels way softer than the AE's.
I also still think the roll centers are messed up on the AE Truck. Higher roll centers would allow us to run softer suspensions and get more road compliance. My SCTE's suspension feels way softer than the AE's.
02-06-2012 | 11:59 AM
Here is an excerpt from an RCSC post, something to try if you haven't already.
Overall everything (except the Rebars) work well together. But I still had a big issue controlling my altitude while in the air. There is a section in the middle of the track that consist of a triple with the first jump being very steep. When hit at speed you can easily clear the triple. The problem is with the SC10 4x4 it would get the front a little high and then catch some air and do the parachute thing and no amount of brake would bring it down. The results were a tail landing or worst. I tried everything I could think of, slipper tightened, slipper loose, lower gearing, higher gearing, drag brake, tighten belt, loosen belt, adjusting braking power, etc. and nothing worked. On the bench when I gave it throttle and then brake I could feel the truck nose down, but on the track in the air it had no effect. I was really disappointed because everywhere else the truck ran great, but the altitude control was a deal breaker. To make things worst I had my Durango and Losi SCTE and they both responded to brake very well and easily leveled out in the air. The Losi in fact, was so strong I could almost do a front flip when I hit the brakes in the air. I was ready to give up when the Norcal guys showed up and they all had SC10 4x4's so I wanted to see if there trucks also had the same problem. Sure enough they also had altitude control issues when trying to clear the big triple, so it must be something to do with the design. One of them mentioned the truck almost feels like a 2wd truck in the air, and I got to thinking maybe because of the belt, decoupled slipper, etc. the handling was way different than any other truck regarding altitude adjustment. I noticed the trucks altitude was fine over the smaller jumps and I only had an issue with the big jump. With that in mind I started testing on the triple, normally I would power up to within a foot of the lip and then let off so the truck would fly level, with the sc10 4x4 this would cause the nose to rise, so I tried cutting throttle a little sooner and yes the truck now flew level. So it seems the SC10 4x4 is more sensitive to throttle (much like a 2wd) and once I figured this out I could nail the jump perfectly. The problem is this required cutting throttle sooner than I would on my other trucks which could be a disadvantage. It also required perfect timing and you had to have your approach just about dead on. With the other trucks I could get a little sloppy and use more throttle to clear the jump then use the brakes to control the altitude. With the AE if you messed up your approach you could not use extra throttle to help clear the triple (it would get nose high) and I had to slow down and double it.