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Old 03-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #18631
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Hey Bob, you can build a shorter shock and fit the retainers by backing off the lower ball end a few turns, installing the spring/retainer and zipping the ball end back on. I'm trying to get around this by locating my old Corsair Racing droop limiters. They've been out of production for years, but mine are still around someplace.
Jim, never thought of that one, but that is really a hassle. You'd have to do that every time you changed springs or changed the shock oil. Also the potential for "buggering up" the shock shafts is pretty high. While the creativeness of your solution is admirable, it is totally wasted effort.

Really, there is no reason to build a shock shorter than 56mm, front or rear. You certainly don't want an ultra short shock on the rear cause that decreases weight transfer to the front, which most of us like for better turn in. It's even less necessary for the front, cause in a front driver, you do not get a significant transfer or weight to the rear.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:29 AM   #18632
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Actually, no. Adding cyano to the sidewalls is one of the first things to consider. The single largest contributor to traction roll is the sidewalls rolling under and the car "tripping" on the outside edge of the tire. Cyanoing the sidewalls does two things. First it stiffens the sidewall so there is less of the tendency for the tire to roll under and trip. Second, when and if it does roll under, the cyano will stop the rolling of the sidewall by reducing the grip when the cyanoed part of the tire contacts the track.

You should carry the cyano from the rim all the way to the edge of the tread or to the transition point of the sidewall to the contact surface on a slick. Going past this line will reduce grip, but is better than not going far enough. A couple of batteries of running will trim the cyano back to the proper line.

Now I'm usually pretty close to the right set up and tire combos from years of experience, but the glue bottle seems to be one of the first things I reach for these days. Sometimes, all thats required is just a little touch up of cyano on the sidewalls, seeing that almost all of my tires for a Hi-grip track have already been glued.
I am aware of the problem. Still, I prefer to keep my opinion here. Cyano is a lazy way of tuning your car. Stiffer inserts will have the same effect of minimising/eliminating tire roll.

And anyway, if the tire rolls before the suspension compresses, you have too stiff a suspension for your tire choice hence my advice.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:01 AM   #18633
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I am aware of the problem. Still, I prefer to keep my opinion here. Cyano is a lazy way of tuning your car. Stiffer inserts will have the same effect of minimising/eliminating tire roll.

And anyway, if the tire rolls before the suspension compresses, you have too stiff a suspension for your tire choice hence my advice.
Yep, would have agreed with you completely some time ago. However, after much trial and error, hours of brainstorming with other racers, I've come to realize that cyano on the sidewalls is a vital part of any tuning process under certain conditions. You're a pretty smart guy, I'm surprised you haven't figured out why.

As to your second point. And when the tire "tucks under" when the suspension is compressed ??????. Right, you got it.

Since you've developed a prejudice or a close mindedness towards the use of cyano, I'm not going to try to change your opinion. Funny, cause I had the same prejudice, but have moved on from that.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:32 AM   #18634
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Guys been lurking here for awhile learning alot and want to thank you guys
Anyway have a question that maybe you guys can throw some insight into

My driver runs a M05 and seems really really slow both on the straights and
the turns
Now I know that there are real differences in the silvercans, and we need
a decent silvercan to run, but he seems real slow compaired to the other cars
We run a 2s Lipo that has 8.4vdc at full charge so thats not a factor
and a 20T pinion
Are there any differences in the internal gearing that could make him faster
that Im not seeing? We need to keep this TCS legal!

What Say Oh Great Mini Mechanics???
Mike
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:43 AM   #18635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KA2AEV View Post
Guys been lurking here for awhile learning alot and want to thank you guys
Anyway have a question that maybe you guys can throw some insight into

My driver runs a M05 and seems really really slow both on the straights and
the turns
Now I know that there are real differences in the silvercans, and we need
a decent silvercan to run, but he seems real slow compaired to the other cars
We run a 2s Lipo that has 8.4vdc at full charge so thats not a factor
and a 20T pinion
Are there any differences in the internal gearing that could make him faster
that Im not seeing? We need to keep this TCS legal!

What Say Oh Great Mini Mechanics???
Mike
There is no other gear sets that are legal for TCS. You could check your bearings or your axles to make sure your not binding. A lot of times if you run stock plastic hexes they will bind once you tighten the wheel. You may have a bad motor.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #18636
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I am aware of the problem. Still, I prefer to keep my opinion here. Cyano is a lazy way of tuning your car. Stiffer inserts will have the same effect of minimising/eliminating tire roll.

And anyway, if the tire rolls before the suspension compresses, you have too stiff a suspension for your tire choice hence my advice.
I have ran mini for over 15years, the M02 was hot back then. I run M03 now and with out ca or Cyano on the sidewall and /or the first outside tread you will traction roll on high grip carpet. So you need to ask youself do I want to worry about traction roll and what my tires look like ? or do you want to win races?
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #18637
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Also check your pinion gear. The little tool tamiya gives you to set the pinion is real nice, but I have found that on some motors it will let the pinion barely rub. I always move the pinion in a little.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:08 AM   #18638
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Default Cyano

Cyano is a valid tuning technique, just as "valid" as springs, oil or adding weight. Stiffer tire inserts do not have the same effect (of minimizing/eliminating tire roll). Cyano only stiffens the sidewall, not the contact patch. Under TCS rules we are not allowed to change inserts anyway.
When traction rolling becomes a problem, softening the front suspension is the first defense, but has limits. Too soft and the chassis begins to pivot on the front, kicking the rear loose. Your criticism of Cyano being a "lazy way" is a bit degrading and inaccurate.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:09 AM   #18639
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Thanks Guys for the suggestions so far
I'll pull the motor and check the pinion and see if I can find someone up here that has a Dyno to see whats its running at
Dave this was the reason why Jonathon dropped from the Mini this past weekend
He knew he was having troubles and didn't want to cause any troubles out there!!!

Are there any real benefits of running a Ball Diff vs the Diff that comes with
the kit? I saw alot of chatter in pervious posts but didn't understand some of it
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:20 AM   #18640
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I'm sure there is advantages and disadvantages to both the gear and ball diff. I run a gear diff and my style of mini racing it works. I tried a ball diff but didn't like it. It really comes down to which of the two you like and how you set the ball diff up.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:49 AM   #18641
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A ball diff can be run tighter than a kit gear diff. This will tend to give better pull out of the corners, while slightly reducing cornering response. Top speed is affected most by motor or efficiency. If the motor is good, then check the rest of the driveline without it. Also, run the motor at mid speed in the car and try adjusting the motor screws. I had a chassis that was slightly warped once and that bought me some speed.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #18642
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First, do what rcdave1 suggested. In a Mini we're not dealing with an excess of power, so making sure your car is "free" is vital.

Second, we need to determine what you mean by slow. For example, are you "glued to the ground" slow on the straight, or are they just pulling you a few feet. What sort of "rules" are you running under? If you're running "open" Silvercans, it could be you're trying to compete with "hot" motors. If you have a "stocker" and someone has a motor like a Red Dot, you have no chance.

On the assumption that everyone is running stock Silvercans, go to the Silvercan Tip/Tricks thread and learn how to properly break in and maintain a motor. Make sure you have a #53689 motor and not the SH. Sometimes people will call anything that has a silver colored can a Silvercan. This opens up the possibility of motors like the "Stinger", which is a 20 turn motor, to be installed. Just some possibilities.

As far as set ups, many have been posted. I've posted my base set up several times on this thread. Find one that fits your particular track and surface and start there. Also, do you have a Spec tire or is it open tires??????? Sometimes corner speed is just a matter of the right tire and insert.

But not having all that info, try this. If they aren't teching or inspecting motors, jam a Stinger in there and you won't be hurting for motor. Put some Sweep premounts, 40 in front and 33 rears. Cyano on the front sidewalls just over the edge. Install a rear (light) roll bar. Option front shock mount in the second hole from the outside. Medium tight TA03 ball diff. You can play with the shock oils and the springs. There are better tires,blah, blah blah, but this should get you started.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #18643
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Whoops, sorry. Started the above post early in the day and finished it after taking the wife shopping. Seems like you'r e running with some TCS guys or at a TCS event.

Here's the best advice I can give you. Adopt one of the "fast guys" and pick his brain. As you saw from my post not knowing your circumstances can lead to dispensing some invalid info. Most of the Mini racers in my area are more than eager to help out.

I use this thread as a way of broadening my view point. There are times that racing with the same "crowd" get's you a little inbred in your thinking.

As far as the gear diff ball diff discussion, there isn't much difference. Most of the variant points are mainly about diff action. If you set up both types of diffs with the same action, snugness, tightness etc., There are very few if any drivers who can tell the difference between the two.

The reason for my preference for the TA03 ball diff, is that it is very easy to build and adjust the tension. Building a gear diff is a whole different "art" and only the real experts seem to have it mastered.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:39 PM   #18644
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I use superglue to remove grip rather than stiffen sidewall. When car leans hard, then part of the sidewall rubber catches the track and flips car over, I put glue in those areas.

Stiffer insert to stiffen sidewall causes undesirable effects, such as less tire traction (forward and cornering).

For me, top speed is power (battery, motor, esc, shottky diode, power capacitors), less friction (less toe out/in, good bearings, no bindings, body type) and grip (correct tires, traction compound).

Lots of hard work and money to get top speed.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:04 PM   #18645
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Thanks guys for all your input
I actually followed what my Driver said and we took a ride over to our local
shop and talked with the owner. He pointed out that his Diff needs to be repacked
that it is wayyyy too loose and he seems to think that the reason why he is loosing
power on the turns is that one drive wheel is coming off the ground slightly
so he got parts and I got alot of work to do!
We did pick up the Front Shock part that you mentioned Grandpa as wellas the
Aluminum Hex for the wheels
I know about breaking in the silvercan and don't think thats too much of an issue
but going to try plopping in a spare Johnson that we have in our motor pool
and see what that does after installing all these parts and repacking the gear diff
with stiffer grease.
I'll let everyone know how we made out when Im done
Again Thank You Guys!!!
Mike
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