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Radiomaster MT12

Old 12-17-2023, 06:03 PM
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Hi all. Can someone please help me with an issue im having with this radio. I recently received the MT12 and wanted to get my headtracker working with it. Im trying to connect the headtracker board through sbus but there is no option in the edgetx hardware page to enable sbus through the serial/aux port. The taranis, tx16s, and basically any edgetx/opentx radio with an aux port has this option. But I dont think they enabled it in the firmware settings. Does anyone know how to update the edgetx firmware and enable the serial/sbus option on this radio? At the moment the only options available for Serial on the Hardware page are Cli, Lua, and TelemetryMirror. No SbusTrainer. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 12-18-2023, 02:41 PM
  #47  
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So awesome. I can't wait to see what people in the RC surface segment of the hobby do with this radio once they figure out what it is. I see the lowrider crowd doing some cool stuff with it and crawlers are going to be insane a year from now if that crowd decides to take advantage of this radio is capable of. No more picking and choosing this over that since this radio will be able to lock/unlock diffs, engage/disengage dig, shift, operate lights (possibly no more light kits since this radio should be able to control them individually), AWS, and whatever other things people come up with.

Pretty soon RC surface racers will be controlling their cars/trucks while sitting at their pit table and hiring a spotter to stand on the driver stand.

I read that the stick version(s) of this radio was pretty popular with the STEM crowd due to it's capabilities and I can see people who never considered RC getting into RC because of what this radio can do. It will be interesting to see if anyone in the race community figures out how use it to their advantage (program a button for push to pass without raising a red flag) and it will be interesting to see if manufacturers start making ESCs and other electronic bits that take advantage of what this radio is capable of.

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-18-2023 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
So awesome. I can't wait to see what people in the RC surface segment of the hobby do with this radio once they figure out what it is. I see the lowrider crowd doing some cool stuff with it and crawlers are going to be insane a year from now if that crowd decides to take advantage of this radio is capable of. No more picking and choosing this over that since this radio will be able to lock/unlock diffs, engage/disengage dig, shift, operate lights (possibly no more light kits since this radio should be able to control them individually), AWS, and whatever other things people come up with.

Pretty soon RC surface racers will be controlling their cars/trucks while sitting at their pit table and hiring a spotter to stand on the driver stand.
Please no. If I wanted to drive my vehicle looking at a screen, I'd play a video game.
Originally Posted by MULMZ2
I read that the stick version(s) of this radio was pretty popular with the STEM crowd due to it's capabilities and I can see people who never considered RC getting into RC because of what this radio can do. It will be interesting to see if anyone in the race community figures out how use it to their advantage (program a button for push to pass without raising a red flag) and it will be interesting to see if manufacturers start making ESCs and other electronic bits that take advantage of what this radio is capable of.
Push to pass is already possible on other radios, it requires an ESC with the feature (Dash and Team Powers come to mind) and the feature is illegal for blinky racing. Without ESC support there's nothing the radio can do to get more power.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Please no. If I wanted to drive my vehicle looking at a screen, I'd play a video game.
You may not want to drive an RC that way, but a lot of others do and will and this radio will allow them to do it with ease. The speed run crowd is going to go nuts with ELRS and FPV once they figure it out. I'd like to try FPV on a track, I think lap times would come down and being consistent would become easier and FPV on an off road track would be fun. Hooking up a Fanatec wheel/pedals or Logitech wheel/pedals to the radio would be next level and VW actually does something similar or exactly this at the LA car show.

For the past two years VW has had a track with 2 RC's running on it near one of the entrances of the convention center and they have the driving element (2 Drivers side by side, kinda like the Daytona 500 arcade setup) set up in their booth in one of the neighboring halls and there is always a line to drive/race RC's on a track using FPV. Wonder if they are using ELRS? FPV surface racing could be exactly what RC Racing needs to get it back on track and people interested again. It would make watching races a lot more interesting.

Aren't you one of several people on this forum that is always saying that kids don't want to RC because they'd rather look at a screen? Well here's a golden opportunity to get those kids into RC. Think outside the box man. And who cares how people choose to drive their RC as long as they are having fun and taking part. The surface segment of this hobby needs a real good and hard kick in the pants. If an RC track set up something similar to what VW sets up at the car show and charged people to use it, I'd put good money on it being very popular and I'd bet money that it would bring people into the hobby, I would also put money on that track putting in as many driving stations as they could, because I think it would be that popular and it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper than racing/maintaining a go kart. I'm also willing to bet that in the not so distant future (a lot sooner than you think) people will be racing surface RC using FPV while sitting at their pit table and if that brings new people into the hobby and racing, awesome.

FPV Drone Racing is much more popular than surface RC Racing and I'd bet that FPV is the reason.

Originally Posted by gigaplex
Push to pass is already possible on other radios, it requires an ESC with the feature (Dash and Team Powers come to mind) and the feature is illegal for blinky racing. Without ESC support there's nothing the radio can do to get more power.
I'm aware of this but this radio can possibly make every ESC capable of push to pass and a bunch of other things that weren't possible before once someone writes the code to make the ESC do whatever it is they want it to do.

Another cool thing that can more than likely be done with this radio is using a button or slider to apply brake so that you don't have to let off the throttle as much or at all. It could make corner entry a lot easier and allow someone to drive deeper into the corner since braking will be easier.

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-18-2023 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
You may not want to drive an RC that way, but a lot of others do and will and this radio will allow them to do it with ease. The speed run crowd is going to go nuts with ELRS and FPV once they figure it out. I'd like to try FPV on a track, I think lap times would come down and being consistent would become easier and FPV on an off road track would be fun. Hooking up a Fanatec wheel/pedals or Logitech wheel/pedals to the radio would be next level and VW actually does something similar or exactly this at the LA car show.
For track racing, birds eye view is significantly easier and faster every time I've seen anyone try it. Visibility is too low to see the corners coming up at the speed and scale we race at, and there's too much camera shake. And you can't see the cars behind you to defend. A spotter won't be fast enough to give you info about defensive lines.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
FPV surface racing could be exactly what RC Racing needs to get it back on track and people interested again. It would make watching races a lot more interesting.
How does FPV affect spectators in any way? It only affects the driver's perspective. If you just want the spectators to have an in car camera view, you don't need FPV for that.
Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Aren't you one of several people on this forum that is always saying that kids don't want to RC because they'd rather look at a screen?
Kind of. Though it's more about the downtime of waiting for the battery to charge or do maintenance or just wait for your race. We get roughly 6 minutes of track time per hour, gamers get 1 hour per hour. Attention spans are the issue, not screens. And if a kid tried FPV on an RC car the experience is so much worse that it'll put them off even more.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
I'm aware of this but this radio can possibly make every ESC capable of push to pass and a bunch of other things that weren't possible before once someone writes the code to make the ESC do whatever it is they want it to do.
Modifying ESC firmware like that is explicitly illegal. There's nothing fundamental about this radio that changes the legality or capability of that kind of ESC feature. Open source on the radio doesn't help you modify a black box ESC firmware.
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Last edited by gigaplex; 12-18-2023 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
For track racing, birds eye view is significantly easier and faster every time I've seen anyone try it. Visibility is too low to see the corners coming up at the speed and scale we race at, and there's too much camera shake. And you can't see the cars behind you to defend. A spotter won't be fast enough to give you info about defensive lines.
Prove this to me. Is there a video showing birds eye vs FPV? And right now, today when it comes to surface maybe your right, but people will figure out FPV and some will get really good at it. Micro Camera tech is pretty advanced and all the deficiencies you mentioned are not an issue with gopros and cell phone cameras. Corner visibility shouldn't be a problem as long as the camera is mounted in a good spot. Someone will figure out if they haven't already how to use a cell phone camera with all the bells and whistles on an RC very soon. A spotter will without a doubt be able to let a driver know what's around them. You talk like RC moves at a lighting pace, it's fast, but not that fast

Drones are a lot faster than any surface RC that is raced on a track and they don't seem to have any problems with visibility, camera shake, frame rate, spotting corners/obstacles, etc...

Originally Posted by gigaplex
How does FPV affect spectators in any way? It only affects the driver's perspective. If you just want the spectators to have an in car camera view, you don't need FPV for that.
Is this a serious question? Do you not watch 1:1 racing? They show in car camera all the time and it doesn't just help the driver, it puts the spectator in the race.

When I was at the flying field last I was watching a drone pilot zip around the course. As I was standing there someone was pulling a monitor out of the storage container to set up so people could see what the pilot was seeing. He told me it's usually set up, because people WANT to see what the person piloting the drone is seeing, it will be no different with surface RC once people get with the program.

Originally Posted by gigaplex
And if a kid tried FPV on an RC car the experience is so much worse that it'll put them off even more.
This is how YOU feel and what YOU assume.

Originally Posted by gigaplex
Modifying ESC firmware like that is explicitly illegal. There's nothing fundamental about this radio that changes the legality or capability of that kind of ESC feature. Open source on the radio doesn't help you modify a black box ESC firmware.
You wouldn't be modifying ESC firmware, you would write a code and the transmitter would do the work or you would program the transmitter to manipulate the ESC. Some people like to overclock their computer, I assume with some know how that something similar can be done to an ESC. I promise you someone will figure something out. It's yet to be seen what this radio is and isn't capable of in the surface world.

Here's how to get push to pass when using an ESC without push to pass. Figure out a way to program a button on the transmitter to send more voltage to the ESC when pressed. Easy peasy. Those with experience with open source radios, can this be done?

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-18-2023 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 05:48 PM
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The fact that's it's taken a decade for this type of radio to be released for the surface world speaks volumes and not in a good way. It shows and proves how stuck the surface world is in their ways and how behind surface RC tech is. It's quite sad and the more I learn about the flying segment of this hobby the more I understand why people walk away from surface or have no interest in it at all. Too many naysayers and too many people unwilling to try something new, which is one of the reasons why nothing changes and one of the reasons why only 20 or so racers show up on race day.

Time to burst the bubble and figure out a way to get some new blood into the hobby. This segment of the hobby needs forward thinkers if it's wants to survive. Manufacturers aren't really helping much either, they need to clean house and get rid of some people that are stuck in the past and hire folks, especially in marketing, who are keeping up with the times.

A smart move would be for Manufactures to start releasing their RTR's as bind and drives now that this radio is on the market. If the majors don't someone else will and the majors will start losing out on some sales. The air segment of the hobby has figured this out, it's long past time for surface to catch up.

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-18-2023 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 07:30 PM
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Question for those with experience with open source. Would it be possible to program the transmitter so that the model has different driving profiles? For example, one button is programmed to activate a profile that provides less power and more steering to make it easier to drive technical parts of the track and another button programmed to provide max power and less steering to make it easier in the faster sections.
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Old 12-18-2023, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Prove this to me. Is there a video showing birds eye vs FPV? And right now, today when it comes to surface maybe your right, but people will figure out FPV and some will get really good at it. Micro Camera tech is pretty advanced and all the deficiencies you mentioned are not an issue with gopros and cell phone cameras. Corner visibility shouldn't be a problem as long as the camera is mounted in a good spot. Someone will figure out if they haven't already how to use a cell phone camera with all the bells and whistles on an RC very soon. A spotter will without a doubt be able to let a driver know what's around them.
Why don't you prove FPV is faster first? Less visibility and higher latency, that's a much less plausible claim.

Here's pretty much best-case for camera location - clear body, with a GoPro mounted high. You can barely follow the track layout. And this is only stock 17.5 speeds on a relatively large track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5KJDwSzEKI

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
You talk like RC moves at a lighting pace, it's fast, but not that fast
Clearly you've not driven 12th scale mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5J3BjGQe8

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Drones are a lot faster than any surface RC that is raced on a track and they don't seem to have any problems with visibility, camera shake, frame rate, spotting corners/obstacles, etc...
Drones have an extra dimension of space to work with and their tracks are significantly larger than surface RC. They also have much better visibility because the airframe shakes way less than an RC car, they have altitude for a better viewpoint etc. And you're underestimating the speeds of surface RC.


Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Is this a serious question? Do you not watch 1:1 racing? They show in car camera all the time and it doesn't just help the driver, it puts the spectator in the race.
Did you even read my comment at all? I'll repeat it in bold: If you just want the spectators to have an in car camera view, you don't need FPV for that. You literally quoted that. You can mount a live camera feed in a car without the driver using it for FPV. There's multiple cameras on an F1 car purely for the spectators.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
You wouldn't be modifying ESC firmware, you would write a code and the transmitter would do the work or you would program the transmitter to manipulate the ESC. Some people like to overclock their computer, I assume with some know how that something similar can be done to an ESC. I promise you someone will figure something out. It's yet to be seen what this radio is and isn't capable of in the surface world.
Manipulate the ESC in what way? ESCs don't support just randomly accepting reprogramming via the receiver cable. No amount of code on the transmitter would make that work without ESC firmware modifications. ESCs only accept a PWM that indicates throttle/brake percentage. In rare circumstances like with Sanwa ESCs there's a proprietary protocol side channel that allows some programmability, but those are explicitly banned.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Here's how to get push to pass when using an ESC without push to pass. Figure out a way to program a button on the transmitter to send more voltage to the ESC when pressed. Easy peasy. Those with experience with open source radios, can this be done?
Send more voltage to the ESC? The ESC is directly connected to the battery and has full voltage at all times. Sounds like you fundamentally don't understand how ESCs work.
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Old 12-18-2023, 08:33 PM
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Is anybody using the MT12 competitively yet? I keep looking for YouTubers, but it's only FPV guy Josh Bardwell who's leading the charge - his latest videos are getting there though - listening to the userbase and coding in features off high end radios.

I'm just getting funds together to get back into racing 1/10th offroad electric - I've come from a decade of flying planes, but never with Radiomaster gear, only Spektrum.

I had ideas to use the extra switches and customisation on the MT12; 1) a 2 or 3 pos switch to set steering travel/expo, one for long straights/sweepers and another for technical sections, 2) preset throttle position to help get perfect air-time for a double/triple, 3) variable dials for drag brake and steering expo.
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Old 12-18-2023, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Drones are a lot faster than any surface RC that is raced on a track and they don't seem to have any problems with visibility, camera shake, frame rate, spotting corners/obstacles, etc...
Drones flying 100km/h do not need to stay within 5 meter wide lines that with RC car racing is mandatory with also 100km/h
Forget it, many have tried but it does not work well, only with slow stock classes and even then you have a bad sight on what is going on on the track.
But it is clear you do not have any real racing experience.
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Old 12-19-2023, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Currently watching it now, so far looks informative. But I'm wondering what the deal is with the ELRS receiver PWM issue on bootup. You mentioned it's a hardware issue, but it seems odd that it's specific to those 2 channels. Is the pattern repeatable? Maybe it's a data handshake for some specific hardware?
It is because the design is based on the UART RX's made for communicating with flight controllers, and these are the UART RX/TX lines. The ESP8285 chip blasts this stuff out on those lines on boot, and it can not be disabled.

This video is where I first heard about it.
https://www.youtube.com/live/C5ZSZxN...5Zv11JTQp1NeFU
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Old 12-19-2023, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Zoomies
Is anybody using the MT12 competitively yet? I keep looking for YouTubers, but it's only FPV guy Josh Bardwell who's leading the charge - his latest videos are getting there though - listening to the userbase and coding in features off high end radios.

I'm just getting funds together to get back into racing 1/10th offroad electric - I've come from a decade of flying planes, but never with Radiomaster gear, only Spektrum.

I had ideas to use the extra switches and customisation on the MT12; 1) a 2 or 3 pos switch to set steering travel/expo, one for long straights/sweepers and another for technical sections, 2) preset throttle position to help get perfect air-time for a double/triple, 3) variable dials for drag brake and steering expo.
I raced with it, and for me, it will not be replacing my Flysky NB4. I'll probably make a video explaining my reasoning at some point, but I'm having a hard time not sounding too negative. As a nerd who is into all sorts of RC, I like the MT12, but it isn't the radio for me for racing.

You can check out my MT12 videos and I'm making more as I see more people asking questions about setting up EdgeTX.

https://youtu.be/OfxvGxojPYc?si=WeV69QyPLbJz13vS

https://youtu.be/nJDv3AEtwkE?si=ls5wIyBwI1kuo8NR

https://youtu.be/OTEmAPjrIKM?si=UB0aAIOfCQcBFN3A
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Old 12-19-2023, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Question for those with experience with open source. Would it be possible to program the transmitter so that the model has different driving profiles? For example, one button is programmed to activate a profile that provides less power and more steering to make it easier to drive technical parts of the track and another button programmed to provide max power and less steering to make it easier in the faster sections.

Yes, you can absolutely do this, and more. In fact, I have done this exact thing on the lower 3 position switch. In the beginning EdgeTX can be a little complicated, but once you learn it, you will never go back to anything else. The amount of customization is mind boggling. Whatever you can think of, it can do. If you need any help setting it up let me know.
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Old 12-19-2023, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ELRS
Yes, you can absolutely do this, and more. In fact, I have done this exact thing on the lower 3 position switch. In the beginning EdgeTX can be a little complicated, but once you learn it, you will never go back to anything else. The amount of customization is mind boggling. Whatever you can think of, it can do. If you need any help setting it up let me know.
Thank you for the reply and confirmation. People are stating that you cannot program the transmitter to send more voltage to the ESC via a programmed button so that you can activate a push to pass (sending more voltage to the ESC) if the ESC is not capable of this feature. Can you shed some light on this?

There is a guy in France who seems to have mastered programming open source and looks at packets sent and received and I assume a bunch of other things when creating a program(?), so it appears to me that if one knows the ins and outs of how things work they can make it do anything, even if it wasn't made to do what it is your trying to make it do.

Thank you for the offer to help with set up. I'm just getting my feet wet and reading about EdgeTX. I just learned about Radiomaster after I purchased a V761 Spitfire and the setup video I watched to bind the V761 to the Radiomaster made basic setup look super simple. The TX12 MKII is my next radio purchase (I like smaller radios and that price is unbeatable, I was looking at a Spektrum 6ch before I discovered Radiomaster).

I'm pretty amped on flying right now, better attitudes, forward thinkers, people at the field are super cool and welcoming, they are easy to approach, they encourage you, and they are more than willing to help to get a new flyer going, and it's so much cheaper than surface RC and I don't have to pay a fee to fly my plane at the field (if I stick with it, I will do my part and contribute somehow).

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-19-2023 at 12:30 PM.
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