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Radiomaster MT12

Old 12-19-2023, 11:22 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Roelof
But it is clear you do not have any real racing experience.
Another baseless comment made based on your feelings. You don't know me or what I have or haven't done in my life or what I am or am not capable of or my work experience or my training/education, so keep that in mind when you reply to my comments. FYI, other than all the fad classes there are only a couple things in surface I haven't raced, Boats, 1/8th scale buggy and Stadium Truck. I'm a pretty experienced racer.

Originally Posted by gigaplex

Send more voltage to the ESC? The ESC is directly connected to the battery and has full voltage at all times. Sounds like you fundamentally don't understand how ESCs work.
How much experience do you have with open source? Are you a programmer or an electrical engineer? For the record I am not, but have worked closely with people with that skill set and have seen them first hand do some really crazy and amazing things. I've seen them move mountains. I will put it to you this way, I was a contractor for google X, so I've seen some stuff, the studio I worked at blew peoples minds, people came to us. Some of the tech I was around a decade ago is just starting to reach the masses. Anyone who works at google can confirm that what they are doing behind closed doors is super advanced and most of what google does will never be seen by the public. google encourages it's employees to play, experiment, and to push the envelope and they give you the money to do so if you are staff.

Originally Posted by gigaplex
Clearly you've not driven 12th scale mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5J3BjGQe8
You're right I haven't, but I have raced 1/12th scale stock and watched the mod guys, so I am very familiar with the speed of a 1/12th scale mod. A drone is much faster.

Both of you are still not taking into account how advanced micro cameras are and like I said, maybe today it's a struggle to race an RC at speed around a track using FPV, but I promise the tech used in cell phone cameras (image stabilization) will be available for RC cameras in the very near future making racing a surface RC using FPV a breeze. Also the FPV example given is a horrible one. I clearly stated that the camera needs to be mounted properly and mounting it behind lexan is not going to do the camera any favors and WILL make visibility very difficult.

The drone I was watching at the airfield was flying in a very tight space, a much tighter space than a surface RC track and was easily twice as fast as any surface RC I've seen on a track. Zero issues. Yes the drone didn't have barriers on either side, but a skilled pilot has zero problems maintaining a tight and precise line. If virtual lines were painted in, the drone pilot would have zero problems staying within the lines.

Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-19-2023 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 12-19-2023, 12:10 PM
  #62  
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Simple fact is: no programming in the world will make a battery suddenly supply more voltage to the ESC than it can physically provide. It's physics, not magic and there are hard limits.
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Old 12-19-2023, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DirkW
Simple fact is: no programming in the world will make a battery suddenly supply more voltage to the ESC than it can physically provide. It's physics, not magic and there are hard limits.
You touched on it, you just need to use AM or FM. That stands for Absolute Magic or Freaking Magic!
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Old 12-19-2023, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DirkW
Simple fact is: no programming in the world will make a battery suddenly supply more voltage to the ESC than it can physically provide. It's physics, not magic and there are hard limits.
How much experience do you have with EdgeTX? Are you a programmer, electrical engineer? Have you ever reversed engineered an ESC, taken measurements, checked to see if it is capable of more than what the manufacturer is telling you it's capable of? Do you know for a fact that ESC's are delivering every ounce of power to the motor that the connected battery has? As most people know sometimes engineers hide things that need to be unlocked by someone who knows what they are doing.

I'll wait for someone with actual experience with EdgeTX to chime in before I let this rest, because there are too many naysayers on this forum who do not think outside the box and most people here have zero experience with EdgeTX and their replys are based and rooted in what they currently know, not what may be possible.
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Old 12-19-2023, 12:56 PM
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Wait, now it's the ESC that is supposed to do it? That is technically possible (although neither really feasible nor legal). But you're claiming that only some clever programmer has to play with code in the radio and it will happen. And that is impossible.
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DirkW
Wait, now it's the ESC that is supposed to do it? That is technically possible (although neither really feasible nor legal). But you're claiming that only some clever programmer has to play with code in the radio and it will happen. And that is impossible.
Now you are trying to twist my words around, I never said or implied what you stated.

Are you an electrical engineer or a programmer? Have you worked with people with said skill set that are capable of making what you think is impossible possible? How much experience do you have with EdgeTX?
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Another baseless comment made based on your feelings. You don't know me or what I have or haven't done in my life or what I am or am not capable of or my work experience or my training/education, so keep that in mind when you reply to my comments.
Foreboding...

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
How much experience do you have with open source? Are you a programmer or an electrical engineer?
Yes, I'm a qualified electrical engineer that writes software for a living. I've contributed to the Linux kernel and some Microsoft OSS projects. I mostly deal with closed source software though, so I know how limiting it can be when you run into black box firmware that you can only interact with by the public interface (eg the PWM input signal on an ESC).

I can assure you with 100% certainty that you cannot give the ESC more voltage by pressing a button on the radio.
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
How much experience do you have with EdgeTX?
None.
Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Are you a programmer
Yes.
Originally Posted by MULMZ2
electrical engineer?
Yes.
Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Have you ever reversed engineered an ESC
Yes, to a point. Reverse engineered the programming interface so I can download telemetry. That's on a physically different plug though, can't do it by the radio signal lead.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Do you know for a fact that ESC's are delivering every ounce of power to the motor that the connected battery has?
Take a step back for a moment and consider the reverse: why would a manufacturer build a race legal ESC intended to beat the competition but intentionally slow it down? They perform at their best at all times, with the minor caveat that there are some reprogrammable settings like drive frequency et al that can tune the feel. Changing those on the fly won't be enough to give you push to pass, the only thing that might is a boost in timing, but changing timing is explicitly illegal in blinky. If you're running mod, you'd have it give you that timing at all times, not just when you push a button on the radio.

Originally Posted by MULMZ2
I'll wait for someone with actual experience with EdgeTX to chime in before I let this rest, because there are too many naysayers on this forum who do not think outside the box and most people here have zero experience with EdgeTX and their replys are based and rooted in what they currently know, not what may be possible.
This isn't about what EdgeTX is capable of. This is about what ESCs are capable of. You're claiming that an EdgeTX expert can fundamentally change the capabilities of an ESC. They. Can. Not.
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:58 PM
  #69  
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Mod delete please
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Old 12-19-2023, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakesterama
I raced with it, and for me, it will not be replacing my Flysky NB4. I'll probably make a video explaining my reasoning at some point, but I'm having a hard time not sounding too negative. As a nerd who is into all sorts of RC, I like the MT12, but it isn't the radio for me for racing.

You can check out my MT12 videos and I'm making more as I see more people asking questions about setting up EdgeTX.
Hi thanks for the reply - I'd actually watched your videos before even joining this forum, lovely work!

I noticed you were comparing to other RTR type receivers and air receivers - do you have access to the 'flagship' low latency radios, the surface Futaba/Sanwa options? I was curious about their performance.

Also, I gather the Radiomaster has a 1000Hz mode on ELRS - have you tried latency measurement on that setting? I think you tested on 333Hz.

I'd love to hear your feedback on why you won't be racing with it. In the aircraft side of OpenTX/EdgeTX, it took a few years for Radiomaster to establish themselves as the 'manufacturer that listens' after FrSky went closed-system and Jumper technical team left to start Radiomaster. If it's an ergonomic thing with the MT12, I fully expect Radiomaster to do what they do with the air radios - offer upgrades, modular ones. Colour screen will likely be coming, CNC machined parts, plastics fit and finish. Hopefully some trigger and wheel position stuff.
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Old 12-20-2023, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
Thank you for the reply and confirmation. People are stating that you cannot program the transmitter to send more voltage to the ESC via a programmed button so that you can activate a push to pass (sending more voltage to the ESC) if the ESC is not capable of this feature. Can you shed some light on this?

There is a guy in France who seems to have mastered programming open source and looks at packets sent and received and I assume a bunch of other things when creating a program(?), so it appears to me that if one knows the ins and outs of how things work they can make it do anything, even if it wasn't made to do what it is your trying to make it do.

Thank you for the offer to help with set up. I'm just getting my feet wet and reading about EdgeTX. I just learned about Radiomaster after I purchased a V761 Spitfire and the setup video I watched to bind the V761 to the Radiomaster made basic setup look super simple. The TX12 MKII is my next radio purchase (I like smaller radios and that price is unbeatable, I was looking at a Spektrum 6ch before I discovered Radiomaster).

I'm pretty amped on flying right now, better attitudes, forward thinkers, people at the field are super cool and welcoming, they are easy to approach, they encourage you, and they are more than willing to help to get a new flyer going, and it's so much cheaper than surface RC and I don't have to pay a fee to fly my plane at the field (if I stick with it, I will do my part and contribute somehow).
Youíre welcome. Anytime.
About the push 2 pass. The battery can only supply a certain amount of volts. It canít be increased with the push of a button. That said, there are other ways to get a burst of power with the push of a button. I will list a couple of them. One way is to change the timing of the esc with the push of a button, which can be possible with the right programming. Blheli32 escís can probably do it if programmed. And now we have opensource Am32 escís which can be programmed to work for rc cars. Another way is with a power booster device that has a bunch of capacitors in it. It is connected between the esc and battery and the pwm cable connects to any open channel on the receiver. There are a few companies that make these. One of them being Turnigy. Search for Turnigy Enos In-Line Power Booster.
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Old 12-20-2023, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ELRS
Youíre welcome. Anytime.
About the push 2 pass. The battery can only supply a certain amount of volts. It canít be increased with the push of a button. That said, there are other ways to get a burst of power with the push of a button. I will list a couple of them. One way is to change the timing of the esc with the push of a button, which can be possible with the right programming. Blheli32 escís can probably do it if programmed. And now we have opensource Am32 escís which can be programmed to work for rc cars. Another way is with a power booster device that has a bunch of capacitors in it. It is connected between the esc and battery and the pwm cable connects to any open channel on the receiver. There are a few companies that make these. One of them being Turnigy. Search for Turnigy Enos In-Line Power Booster.
Both ways you list to "push to pass" would most certainly be illegal in most classes we race. In the second scenario, how do you get a capacitor bank to supply more voltage than the battery it is connected to? Once you deplete the small amount of charge in them, the battery must be used to charge them back up... the same battery that is running your car, so that power is diverted away from powering your car optimally to charging capacitors.
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Old 12-20-2023, 10:06 AM
  #73  
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I have my MT12 for a week now, and bought for and use it on my crawler.

This things allow me the usual stuff that any radio can do, given enough channels. Such as movement, lights, winches, overdrive and dig.

But EdgeTX allows me to create mixes such as how I'm handling my winch.
It has a normal in/out on Trim 4, but I can also control it with my throttle in either self or helper mode.
Where 'self' is winching in and slowly moving forward on throtle, and 'helper' is winching in and moving backward. While having a wav file notifying what mode I'm in. (Oh and leds showing it as well.)

I can also have my winch locked, so I can't accidentily turn it on, while I'm trying to keep my own balance on some muddy incline.

That's the BIG thing about Edge/OpenTX: If you can think of it, you can program it. For mixes like my own, it has a crazy learning curve though, don't underestimate that.

What I DO consider an issue with the MT12 is a lack of real switches. Yes, you can use a trim switch as a switch, to control channels, but it's a lot of work. Also the two extra switches you can put on the base are seen by the radio as a pot, so you cannot assign that directly as a condition to turn a mix on or off. (You can work around that with Logical switches, which I've done).
EDIT: You need to setup the additional switches in the hardware menu. (As per the manual...)

For racing I don't really see the point. Also not sure what a race directors opinion is going to be when you show up with an ELRS protocol radio

Edit: Oh, and forgot to mention: You can't use Companion for it yet. That is planned for the next release of EdgeTX. 2.10, we're currently at 2.9

Last edited by ReneT; 12-28-2023 at 04:54 AM. Reason: I was wrong
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Old 12-20-2023, 11:02 AM
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gigaplex Thank you very much for your replies and the information you provided. I apologize for being confrontational. Now that I know your level of expertise I know that I can trust what's posted by you and again I apologize. I hope you can understand where I was coming from.

There is too much misinformation on the internet and unfortunately there are a lot of people here that draw conclusions based off of their feelings while disregarding at times factual information. This radio can be very simple or incredibly complex and when it comes to things of complexity I like to know that I am getting my information from an expert so that I can not only educate myself, but get the truth from someone who actually knows.

ELRS Thank you for the reply and information you provided.
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Last edited by MULMZ2; 12-20-2023 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 12-20-2023, 11:51 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by MULMZ2
There is too much misinformation on the internet and unfortunately there are a lot of people here that draw conclusions based off of their feelings while disregarding at times factual information. This radio can be very simple or incredibly complex and when it comes to things of complexity I like to know that I am getting my information from an expert so that I can not only educate myself, but get the truth from someone who actually knows.
And sometimes not all people are here just to knock anything down only based on their feelings, but because they know what components in an RC car do and what not. Nobody actually said anything negative about the radio - just not to expect miracles from it, that it cannot possibly provide.
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