16LikesProject: Break in Dutch machine
03-06-2016, 11:34 PM
#46
True, With my N21-5T I did see the touching surface in between the rings as also Richard has done a N21-5T yesterday with the touching spot in between the rings. With this engine it is different
I do not think it is wrong, it is different. Probably it will change a little when the engine is fired up.
I do not think it is wrong, it is different. Probably it will change a little when the engine is fired up.
03-07-2016, 01:48 AM
#47
Tech Initiate
Hmmmm..
What do you guys think about the idea of using the ultrasonic cleaner bath as the base to the system. It's resistant for chemicals and it has the heating with controls inbuilt.
You should only be making the top-plate/cover on top of the bath and to mount the engine and the transmission the same way as the Roelof's system does??
-X-
What do you guys think about the idea of using the ultrasonic cleaner bath as the base to the system. It's resistant for chemicals and it has the heating with controls inbuilt.
You should only be making the top-plate/cover on top of the bath and to mount the engine and the transmission the same way as the Roelof's system does??
-X-
03-07-2016, 02:51 AM
#48
If it is large enough to have an engine and you can controll the heat between 60 up to 100 degrees celcius then yes, it is an option.
You can also think of a mini deep fryer, they can be found for arround 20 dollar. Some have a temp control going as low as 80 degrees but with a 8 dollar temperature controler from ebay you can always make it work.
You can also think of a mini deep fryer, they can be found for arround 20 dollar. Some have a temp control going as low as 80 degrees but with a 8 dollar temperature controler from ebay you can always make it work.
03-07-2016, 03:43 AM
#49
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by Roelof
If it is large enough to have an engine and you can controll the heat between 60 up to 100 degrees celcius then yes, it is an option.
You can also think of a mini deep fryer, they can be found for arround 20 dollar. Some have a temp control going as low as 80 degrees but with a 8 dollar temperature controler from ebay you can always make it work.
You can also think of a mini deep fryer, they can be found for arround 20 dollar. Some have a temp control going as low as 80 degrees but with a 8 dollar temperature controler from ebay you can always make it work.
-X-
03-07-2016, 04:51 AM
#50
03-07-2016, 09:04 AM
#51
Tech Apprentice
To consider
The normal break-in process uses a wedge of oil between the piston and sleeve to stretch the sleeve (also to a barrel shape) repeatedly until it takes a set.
That is why a lot of oil and especially castor is beneficial in creating this wedge.
There is almost no wear taking place.
After breaking in a motor, mic the outside of the sleeve- even at room temperature.
Not sure how the process you are using will effect the clearances when the stretching takes place under running conditions.
Will be interesting to see the results after the motor is used on the track.
Preferably back to back with one done in the traditional manner.
That is why a lot of oil and especially castor is beneficial in creating this wedge.
There is almost no wear taking place.
After breaking in a motor, mic the outside of the sleeve- even at room temperature.
Not sure how the process you are using will effect the clearances when the stretching takes place under running conditions.
Will be interesting to see the results after the motor is used on the track.
Preferably back to back with one done in the traditional manner.
03-09-2016, 09:54 PM
#52
Tech Apprentice
03-10-2016, 12:55 AM
#53
Looking at the viscocity it is too thick. You must have it arround 7 or 8 at 100 degrees. Also the max operating temperature specified is 70 degrees.....
Asking some brands who were delivering a break in oil I have got a sugestion from Lucas Oil to use their 0w20 dragster oil. It is methanol friendly and has a high content zinc.
So far I have good results with Shell Donax Transmission oil (smells!) and Shell 0W20
Asking some brands who were delivering a break in oil I have got a sugestion from Lucas Oil to use their 0w20 dragster oil. It is methanol friendly and has a high content zinc.
So far I have good results with Shell Donax Transmission oil (smells!) and Shell 0W20
Last edited by Roelof; 03-10-2016 at 02:22 AM.
03-10-2016, 01:40 AM
#54
Tech Apprentice
Ok. I was just thinking that with the low piston speed, the thicker oil may be better to avoid scuffing.
03-10-2016, 02:27 AM
#55
A 1st engine I have done was with methanol mixable oils. The one had a viscocity of 21 and the other about 18 , both at 100 degrees celcius. Although it did its job the surface is not as nice as with my later results.
We still think a hone oil could be the best choice, I have a liter so I can give it a try. Hone oil is thin and lubricates a lot.
We still think a hone oil could be the best choice, I have a liter so I can give it a try. Hone oil is thin and lubricates a lot.
03-10-2016, 09:00 PM
#56
Tech Apprentice
I was thinking more about reducing scuffing while trying to get some stretch in the sleeve without wearing the piston down to fit the sleeve -which has a different temp profile under running conditions than with the even temp in the tank.
It is a lot hotter (and bigger) at the top than at the bottom which is cooled by the fuel.
It is a lot hotter (and bigger) at the top than at the bottom which is cooled by the fuel.
03-10-2016, 11:43 PM
#57
True, but as mentioned many times before, the piston will expand and permanent grow when it gets its first real heat. Even when there is no pinch to feel after this break in the piston will get a pinch back when the engine is fired up.
And yes, when running the sleeve and piston gets hotter on the upper side so the sleeve will get a more straight shape loosing the taper.
And yes, when running the sleeve and piston gets hotter on the upper side so the sleeve will get a more straight shape loosing the taper.
03-11-2016, 05:55 AM
#58
Keep in mind the piston is cooled from the underside during operation..
04-11-2016, 04:31 AM
#59
When RichardE started his EBIS project we have discussed some things and he originally started buidling someting to my idea.
A friend also wanted to have a break in bench so he could take over this non finished building from RichardE with the electronics included and I offered to finish it to a complete working bench.
The used motor is a small format 370 type with a gearbox with the right RPM output, I only hope it is strong and reliable enough. I added some greese in the gearbox to be sure the gears are good lubricated.
So I started it with making a bathtube and modifying the mechanics. This will be placed on a slide in the bath for an easy mounting. The cables for the heater and temp sensor will go through a slot on the side covered by a plate so no loose wirering has to go through the cap.
Also there seems a 0.5mm differencs on the height of the crankshaft between a Novarossi and a Picco so I made a 0.5mm shim to raise the electric motor to fit Nova based engines. Something I did solve with my 1st build by using a small CVD shaft.
I made it ready to connect all electronics, I hope to have it finished next weekend. I still has one Ielasi tuned untouched in the box, that will be the test subject of the machine.
A friend also wanted to have a break in bench so he could take over this non finished building from RichardE with the electronics included and I offered to finish it to a complete working bench.
The used motor is a small format 370 type with a gearbox with the right RPM output, I only hope it is strong and reliable enough. I added some greese in the gearbox to be sure the gears are good lubricated.
So I started it with making a bathtube and modifying the mechanics. This will be placed on a slide in the bath for an easy mounting. The cables for the heater and temp sensor will go through a slot on the side covered by a plate so no loose wirering has to go through the cap.
Also there seems a 0.5mm differencs on the height of the crankshaft between a Novarossi and a Picco so I made a 0.5mm shim to raise the electric motor to fit Nova based engines. Something I did solve with my 1st build by using a small CVD shaft.
I made it ready to connect all electronics, I hope to have it finished next weekend. I still has one Ielasi tuned untouched in the box, that will be the test subject of the machine.
Last edited by Roelof; 04-11-2016 at 04:59 AM.
04-20-2016, 03:35 PM
#60
Last Sunday the build was that far to test it on fresh engine. Sadly the electric motor was to weak and the adapter shaft was to small to make a tight clamp.
Today arrived a new 550 size transmission motorwith 7x the force of the old one. Also did a quick work on the lathe for a new adapter shaft.
I still had one fresh motor which is now rotating in the bench. The new electric motor can handle the pinch and the lower heating power of about 80 watt can still heat the whole bath up to my starting temperature of 95 degrees.
A small movie:
The one thing I have to do is add some screws to mount the controlpanel, 4 bolts for the cap ant tighten some screws.
Today arrived a new 550 size transmission motorwith 7x the force of the old one. Also did a quick work on the lathe for a new adapter shaft.
I still had one fresh motor which is now rotating in the bench. The new electric motor can handle the pinch and the lower heating power of about 80 watt can still heat the whole bath up to my starting temperature of 95 degrees.
A small movie:
| + YouTube Video | |
The one thing I have to do is add some screws to mount the controlpanel, 4 bolts for the cap ant tighten some screws.
