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Old 09-21-2006, 07:10 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
Remember that Josh basically was running an EFRA legal engine, versus the competition that were running IFMAR legal engines which are less restricted.
The only regulations EFRA has and IFMAR doesn't are these 2:
1) Max. 7mm bore in crank
2) End of crankhole near backplate, can have a max. rounding of 0.5mm, (so no turboscoop going into this hole)

On the other hand if Team Orion was running EFRA legal engines, tells me 2 things:
1) they were so convinced of them selves, that they would win the worlds even with an EFRA legal engine (But then just in case would also have an IFMAR legal version ready)
2) they were so stupid NOT to use an IFMAR legal engine, which now even might have cost them the title.....
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:11 AM   #167
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Another interesting thing to note was that Josh was running a Sirio 2611 pipe

M7H: I walked around the pits and managed to see 1 Mega ZX12!! Thats right, just 1. Serpent were running Mainly MaxPower SL3 WC, and a few MF's. What are your thoughts on this?
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:42 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
The only regulations EFRA has and IFMAR doesn't are these 2:
1) Max. 7mm bore in crank
2) End of crankhole near backplate, can have a max. rounding of 0.5mm, (so no turboscoop going into this hole)

On the other hand if Team Orion was running EFRA legal engines, tells me 2 things:
1) they were so convinced of them selves, that they would win the worlds even with an EFRA legal engine (But then just in case would also have an IFMAR legal version ready)
2) they were so stupid NOT to use an IFMAR legal engine, which now even might have cost them the title.....
My point was that these 2 EFRA requirements are considered as restrictions (made to limit performance and/or cost of the engine). Because of it's new technology the CRF engine is not restricted by these requirements. It does not need crankshafts with 7mm+ bore and funky turboscoops to be the fastest engine on the track even when competing with engines which are not EFRA legal.

The crankshaft that was used was the same 6mm crankshaft you get when you buy the engine. Modified cranks were tested but they made the car difficult to handle because of excessive power.

Last edited by Nano; 09-21-2006 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:56 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
My point was that these 2 EFRA requirements are considered as restrictions (made to limit performance and/or cost of the engine).
Well... In some things we think the same... lately (at least on the past 5 or 6 years) EFRA has been doing some stupid things trying to 'equalize' or at least to slow some costs associated with racing. Many years ago was the biggest stupidity with the infamous 12 turn limit on Touring cars who opened the doomed 'search for the n milivolt more on the batts', later was the 7mm crank bore and the 'turbo scoop' that in few days, deemed illegal almost all the .12 engines that were on the market (and of course, the need of buying new engines).

I'm not a newbie on this... in fact if you can search on the Team Orion forums, you can see some posts made by me regarding this. EFRA sometimes should look farther than their own belly and try to being in the same line of other blocks (ROAR, FAMAR, FEMCA,....)
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:56 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rody
What are your thoughts on this?
I don't know.....

But, I don't want to talk about Mega here, as somebody will give comment on that probably.....
You have a PM though.......
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:01 AM   #171
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Josh Congratulation for your final, too bad that you had receiver packs problems...
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:06 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corse-R
.....trying to 'equalize' or at least to slow some costs associated with racing. Many years ago was the biggest stupidity with the infamous 12 turn limit on Touring cars who opened the doomed 'search for the n milivolt more on the batts', later was the 7mm crank bore and the 'turbo scoop' that in few days, deemed illegal almost all the .12 engines that were on the market (and of course, the need of buying new engines).
that's indeed not really lowering the costs.........

Quote:
I'm not a newbie on this... in fact if you can search on the Team Orion forums, you can see some posts made by me regarding this. EFRA sometimes should look farther than their own belly and try to being in the same line of other blocks (ROAR, FAMAR, FEMCA,....)
Here in Holland we have the national NOMAC regulations, under these regulations the Orion engine is even not allowed, because on top of the EFRA rules the bore in the crank also needs to be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the backplate......

Luckily I drive 1/8 scale, which is an "outlaw" class.......
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:12 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
My point was that these 2 EFRA requirements are considered as restrictions (made to limit performance and/or cost of the engine). Because of it's new technology the CRF engine is not restricted by these requirements. It does not need crankshafts with 7mm+ bore and funky turboscoops to be the fastest engine on the track even when competing with engines which are not EFRA legal.

The crankshaft that was used was the same 6mm crankshaft you get when you buy the engine. Modified cranks were tested but they made the car difficult to handle because of excessive power.
But, this was said on the other tread about this engine:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
I asked if the CRF is EFRA and BRCA legal and Team Orion confirmed it is. I asked how this could be when the hole in the crank is more than 7mm but no response. They are using them at national level here and in Europe so guess they are legal.

I run mine on 25% Nitro as it didnt like 16% but not at nationals.
6mm, 7mm, or bigger......
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:20 AM   #174
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As the hole in the crank exits at 45 deg the hole isnt round so it must be measured along its major axis and thats bigger than 7mm

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Old 09-21-2006, 02:50 PM   #175
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A diameter is always measured at 90 of two parallel lines from a hole (tube). You can also try to insert a gauge of 7mm, if it goes in it means it is bigger than 7mm if you can^t insert it, it is smaller than the gauge. The CRF engine has a 6mm hole.
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:04 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
I spoke to Didier (one of the two guys from Team Orion/CRF at the track) this morning and they did test/use new ports configuration. We are going to get all the info together and see what evolutions we will bring to the engine if needed.
So what does all of this testing mean to the consumer and those of us that already have the engine? If it's decided that the engine runs better with a different port configuration, are we going to get new parts or would it be something that we would have to purchase?

Thanks Nano!
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:18 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
So what does all of this testing mean to the consumer and those of us that already have the engine? If it's decided that the engine runs better with a different port configuration, are we going to get new parts or would it be something that we would have to purchase?

Thanks Nano!
of course you will have to buy it!
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:27 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamite
of course you will have to buy it!
If they turn it into an option part, then that would be fine.

If they change what's sold NIB, I would have an issue with that.
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:13 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
If they turn it into an option part, then that would be fine.

If they change what's sold NIB, I would have an issue with that.
well guess what if/when they release the new liner with the less extreme ports it will probably be a NIB part...so there's gonna be problems down in "hawaii" i'm guessing
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:12 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
well guess what if/when they release the new liner with the less extreme ports it will probably be a NIB part...so there's gonna be problems down in "hawaii" i'm guessing
The only part of the CRF engine that has 'Extreme port timing is the crankshaft at around 250deg.

The Cyl port timing is actually quite tame at around 165 ex and 110 transfer. This is much milder than most current top level engines on the market many around 175 ex and 125 transfer.

But also keep in mind that most of these 'other' engines have crank timing of around 210 deg.

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