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Old 07-10-2007, 07:22 PM   #181
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Ok thats German Muscle .. yes .. and i answered his question pretty well i think .. unless there is something i left out. Of which please let me know

So my question to you is why are you still carrying on ? Your posts have absolutlely no relevance in context to the information supplied as an answer to someone else's question. I suggest you read over the answers supplied wothout thinking about anything else so it really sinks in this time ...

And id be talking to the maufactureres of every rc engine too if i were you because 99% of engines i open that are new are clean and shiny.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:34 PM   #182
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Kemorc do you modify RC engines ? if so can we see an example of your work ?
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:38 PM   #183
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i modify bigger 2 cycle engines, mainly snowmobiles.

And if the engines you do take apart are as shiny as they are when you are done with them, i'd love to see before and after shots of the crankshaft. I know for a fact they aren't glossy.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:43 PM   #184
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Ok so how does a polished surface harm performance ? please explain it ? and how long do you think a polished surface inside a combustion engine stays polished and smooth ?
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:49 PM   #185
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a polished surface disrupts the flow of air. again, why do you think the wings of an airplane are not smooth? If they were, that plane wouldn't fly well, thats for sure!

Your next question is going to get an answer that'll definitely hurt...

That polishing isn't going to last very long after the engine gets broken in and cycled. thus, making the whole process of doing so a complete waste of time.

in depth:

Furthermore, polish is not only unnecessary, it's actually harmful, in two ways. The first concerns the airflow itself. The experience of countless engine builders, plus research by Superflow, Boeing, and various members of the Society of Automotive Engineers, indicate that a smooth surface is not necessarily the slipperiest where air is concerned. Ever notice that an airplane's wings are not shiny smooth, but rough? The rough surface reduces air drag, and the wing glides through the air easier.

The second way polish is bad concerns combustion. Intake ports don't just flow air, remember. They flow an air/fuel mixture. The same lazy air boundaries that constrict a polished port's airflow also make fuel "drop out" of suspension in that air. The mixture then enters the cylinder less thoroughly mixed, and poor combustion and reduced power result. The slight roughness creates tiny eddy currents which keep fuel droplets suspended in the port air stream. Good combustion is thus ensured.
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:08 PM   #186
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That didnt hurt at all ... in fact your point that you are trying to make that . "polished surfaces hurts engine performance" .. is now moot .. its true the surface is tarnished and rough within the first tank of use, so thank you for proving a point in my favour .... BUT ! i still think that cleaning and polishing a surface before re assembly is important for presentation and even as a rule of thumb to ensure procedure makes for a better product.

Now if we were to get technical , the polishing process dosent make the surfaces smoother .. it in fact makes them rougher.. its just the roughness is finer than when coming out of manufacture.. I suggest you polish a surface with 500 wt and dry with a fast dremmell and look at it before and after with a 100 micron scope ... you will see what i mean

The effect you are TRYING to articulate is called LE or London Effect.. it speaks of the principle of how turbulence is promoted by rough surfaces which reduces surface tension on fuel flow ... NOW ! in the combustion chamber if you are to create turbulence you can do this in 2 ways .. induction turbulence ( this is only to do with 2 stroke) and ignition turbulence. You havent seen one of my modified head buttons but it would illustrate how to create ignition turbulence .. the sleeve you see illustrates induction turbulence..
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:12 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemorc View Post
a polished surface disrupts the flow of air. again, why do you think the wings of an airplane are not smooth? If they were, that plane wouldn't fly well, thats for sure!

Your next question is going to get an answer that'll definitely hurt...

That polishing isn't going to last very long after the engine gets broken in and cycled. thus, making the whole process of doing so a complete waste of time.

in depth:

Furthermore, polish is not only unnecessary, it's actually harmful, in two ways. The first concerns the airflow itself. The experience of countless engine builders, plus research by Superflow, Boeing, and various members of the Society of Automotive Engineers, indicate that a smooth surface is not necessarily the slipperiest where air is concerned. Ever notice that an airplane's wings are not shiny smooth, but rough? The rough surface reduces air drag, and the wing glides through the air easier.

The second way polish is bad concerns combustion. Intake ports don't just flow air, remember. They flow an air/fuel mixture. The same lazy air boundaries that constrict a polished port's airflow also make fuel "drop out" of suspension in that air. The mixture then enters the cylinder less thoroughly mixed, and poor combustion and reduced power result. The slight roughness creates tiny eddy currents which keep fuel droplets suspended in the port air stream. Good combustion is thus ensured.
Exact words of the extract but do you understand them .. ?
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:36 PM   #188
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yes i do understand them. again i state... your information is false on what you say...

"it in fact makes them rougher.. its just the roughness is finer than when coming out of manufacture.. "

yeah we call that process polishing you are obviously making it much smoother than it used to be

see for example:

http://www.jpracing.com/en/products/fx-engines/

those internals are definitely not polished...

Same goes for EB Mods, look at the Eb modded os engines... they do not get any polishing once so ever.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:02 PM   #189
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lol theres no helping some people ...
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:12 AM   #190
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I hate to put a wet blanket on the party, but the beautiful pics of my sweet new motor have been buried by off-topic discussion. What are the chances that you could take the modding discussion to another thread?

I'll take some pics and add them when I seal the backplate, in case any noobs like myself would like to see that.

Slap my bootie and call me Sally re:the sealed pinch screws. I totally thought it was an air leak thing. I guess it makes sense. The pinch bolt is still above the second o-ring inside the intake throat, right? Any air would have to get past that ring to leak through.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:13 AM   #191
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i never questioned why he polishes the internals. i questioned the pointless random cuts under the boost port. very mild polishing is fine, but extreme polishing isnt a good thing its mostly done for photos and stuff like that. I know of a modder who mods engines and he does a rough polish around the intake ports. He doesnt polish it much at all nor polish it in other areas as it will remove material and the tolerance of the sleeve in the case more loose. After a few tanks of fuel the sleeve will turn dull looking. Rougher surfaces make the air more turbulant when in the motor this increases Fuel atomization which is a good thing. but there is a difference in that and a interuption of airflow. I dont like the fact mark polishes what looks like the entire sleeve and makes the cuts i seen but oh well thats his game and what he does and i respect him like i do all modders, i just use the one i like and fits my need the best.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:33 AM   #192
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Kemo strikes again.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:09 AM   #193
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I have no idea why electricity works , and if Thomas Edison were here i wouldnt give him a mouth full about something i didnt understand.. Just because you dont understand it dosent mean it dosent work .. it just means its beyond your thinking at this point. What is pointless and random are your accusations and questions..

Anyway if anyone wants to continue this please feel free to hammer me with questions, acusations and more meaningless dribble on my thread and leave this to Go Motors .. Thanks
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:58 AM   #194
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Maybe all you guys should tell him what you do for a living so he can tell you that you obviously have no idea what you are doing??? If you cant see the purpose of what he does then he's probably a happy man!! But to attack ones integrity with quotes such as
Quote:
i questioned the pointless random cuts under the boost port.
is not on. You obviously no the answer to your question as you have stated above!!

There is no need for MM to say anything really, as he has proved his mods and HB444 fuel, which had its critics (I emphasis the word had) to be extremely successful here in Australia. Maybe its worth reading the MM thread, the proof is in the pudding!!!

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Old 07-11-2007, 06:37 AM   #195
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Oh Dear, All I wanted to do was read about GO TECH Engines not all of this junk about polishing etc!!!!

Massive Mods is right, these 1970's ideas about porting and polishing are no longer. Sounds very british to me. Brits were always good with their mouths and very rarely found that their ideas turned out right when the engines were acutally put onto dyno's. Thus some designers started designing heads that didn't have ports the size of
4V Clevelands and started to find that all the little things like polishing correctly do count. I own a flow bench, I know!!!!

I Find it interesting that mr Mike the Motorbike man uses a Harley head for demonstration, and seriously, no one could find a head with worse ports or sizing to match an engines size. However its a good demonstration of "basic man's" mechanical thinking where bigger is meant to be better. This goes on my shelf of bad Ideas like "polishing is a waste of time". Too many times a well polished and studdied engine combination wins the race now days, how its polished and where is the secret tho.....Right Mark.
Dont tell me, You'll have to kill me I know......

I like your work Mark, it looks good and from all reports works well. Keep up the good work.

PS. I polished my engine too!!!! It did work better


I cant wait for my new GO TECH.....
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