352LikesNOVAROSSI Engine thread....
04-04-2014 | 10:42 AM
#6541
hehe
well I think rods splitting up the middle are more related to the fuel being used and how the engine was tuned and run then anything else... When a rod splits it means the rod bushing has spun inside the rod,which means there was enough heat and friction between the rod bushing and the crankpin to break the bushing loose inside the rod, which is no small feat.... To me this is more of a lubrication issue then it is a bad rod issue...run a engine hot and lean at 40 000 RPM using cheap fuels with low oil and this is the types of issues your going to see...... As you can imagine I work on many engines and more and more I am seeing a larger number of engines with badly worn crankpins..Engines that only have 3 gallons of fuel thru them are already showing 0.002" or worse out of round...With very distinct heat and friction markings from the bushing....
I wont argue that some rods are not stronger then others, as the new 14 rods are definitely stronger then the 13 rods.........But when i see a split rod its a clear indication of a spun bushing, and spinning a bushing means there was a substantial amount of heat and friction present so I would blame the fuel and the tune much sooner then I would blame a faulty rod......
Cars are becoming faster and faster, engines are being spun harder and faster then ever before, and because of this we will start seeing more and more fuel related wear issues....
I wont argue that some rods are not stronger then others, as the new 14 rods are definitely stronger then the 13 rods.........But when i see a split rod its a clear indication of a spun bushing, and spinning a bushing means there was a substantial amount of heat and friction present so I would blame the fuel and the tune much sooner then I would blame a faulty rod......
Cars are becoming faster and faster, engines are being spun harder and faster then ever before, and because of this we will start seeing more and more fuel related wear issues....
04-04-2014 | 11:53 AM
#6542
I think the rod develops a small crack between the oil hole and bushing which would absolutely cause the bushing to spin. As you said Neal, spinning that bushing is no small feat.
I would say misuse and abuse play a very large role in causing this small crack to develop: flat landing, getting piston stuck in TDC, not preheating tight engines, flat landing, and flat landing.
I would say misuse and abuse play a very large role in causing this small crack to develop: flat landing, getting piston stuck in TDC, not preheating tight engines, flat landing, and flat landing.
04-04-2014 | 02:43 PM
#6543
i know exactly what does what and why , i wish i could freely speak my mind but i will not
the rod in the roma is a completely different rod than the .21 engines have , it is from the .28 engines
i have not seen one 14 rod fail as of yet
i will say backflips, flat landers , lawn darts and the like are NOT good for engine internals !!!!!!
neither is cold running
i will agree some of the fuels are CRAP out there today , its a very hard balance to obtain with fuel oil pkgs as these engines are quite unique in the sense that they receive their lubrication from the same source of liquid that produces the combustion and not having a lubrication cavity for moving parts to bathe in
i will not go into detail of what i think of which fuels but like Neil i see many many engines on my bench and inquire about the life of the engine and fuels that have been ran , etc. etc.
the rod in the roma is a completely different rod than the .21 engines have , it is from the .28 engines
i have not seen one 14 rod fail as of yet
i will say backflips, flat landers , lawn darts and the like are NOT good for engine internals !!!!!!
neither is cold running
i will agree some of the fuels are CRAP out there today , its a very hard balance to obtain with fuel oil pkgs as these engines are quite unique in the sense that they receive their lubrication from the same source of liquid that produces the combustion and not having a lubrication cavity for moving parts to bathe in
i will not go into detail of what i think of which fuels but like Neil i see many many engines on my bench and inquire about the life of the engine and fuels that have been ran , etc. etc.
04-04-2014 | 04:17 PM
#6544
I think the rod develops a small crack between the oil hole and bushing which would absolutely cause the bushing to spin. As you said Neal, spinning that bushing is no small feat.
I would say misuse and abuse play a very large role in causing this small crack to develop: flat landing, getting piston stuck in TDC, not preheating tight engines, flat landing, and flat landing.
I would say misuse and abuse play a very large role in causing this small crack to develop: flat landing, getting piston stuck in TDC, not preheating tight engines, flat landing, and flat landing.
04-04-2014 | 07:37 PM
#6545
Tech Addict
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 529
From: Shamong, N.J.
Question on this rod splitting, You mean to tell me that these guys I know that have had these failures with there Nova rods. Had it happen because of there fuel? The way they broke the motor in? Or because of flat landings, lawndarts, etc? When these same guys I know have been racing for years with other brand motors and never had a issue even similar? Your telling me Byrons fuel is crap? Which btw is the #1 selling fuel in the world. Your telling me there is no problem with the rods? They are splitting perfectly. I couldn't cut them in half that perfect if I tried. I actually considered buying 2 for me and my son. Then I thought of all the guys I know from different tracks that have had this problem. So I decided to buy another brand THANK GOD!
04-04-2014 | 09:07 PM
#6546
Question on this rod splitting, You mean to tell me that these guys I know that have had these failures with there Nova rods. Had it happen because of there fuel? The way they broke the motor in? Or because of flat landings, lawndarts, etc? When these same guys I know have been racing for years with other brand motors and never had a issue even similar? Your telling me Byrons fuel is crap? Which btw is the #1 selling fuel in the world. Your telling me there is no problem with the rods? They are splitting perfectly. I couldn't cut them in half that perfect if I tried. I actually considered buying 2 for me and my son. Then I thought of all the guys I know from different tracks that have had this problem.
I will stick with my Nova,s But If the rods stamped 13 it,s going in the TRASH where it belongs Will get some 14,s
04-05-2014 | 04:07 AM
#6547
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 692
Thanks for the responses guys. The engine was broken in very easy with about 12 tanks just like I do all my enignes. The temps never have been high on this engine. Maybe 250-260 max. The flat landing I had at PNB were epic, but not different than the ones I had in the buggy with an 8+ gallon P5. Who knows, that could still be it.
Here's a pic of the rod before I tore it down:
Here's a pic of the rod before I tore it down:
04-05-2014 | 04:38 AM
#6548
04-05-2014 | 05:04 AM
#6549
Thanks for the responses guys. The engine was broken in very easy with about 12 tanks just like I do all my enignes. The temps never have been high on this engine. Maybe 250-260 max. The flat landing I had at PNB were epic, but not different than the ones I had in the buggy with an 8+ gallon P5. Who knows, that could still be it.
Here's a pic of the rod before I tore it down:
Here's a pic of the rod before I tore it down:
edit... did you happen to measure your crank pin ?
Last edited by Maximo; 04-05-2014 at 06:23 AM.
04-06-2014 | 05:16 AM
#6554
Clio
I found the exploded view of the Clio It does look like it has bypass ports.
http://www.mugenseiki.com/images/nov...ew/CLIO-P5.pdf
I bet this thing has a few more rpm's than the p5.
http://www.mugenseiki.com/images/nov...ew/CLIO-P5.pdf
I bet this thing has a few more rpm's than the p5.