That sounds like a good answer. The engines were a little fat on top and smoking good but not excessively. The LSN on both engines were maybe a touch leaner than I would normaly run on a 10 tank engine but they would still load up just slightly sitting at an idle.

I used to run 10% oil sidewinder fuel but I seemed to me that the engines were showing wear earlier. The crank pins all seemed to show wear first, then the P/S didn't seem to last as long. So, I switched back to 12% oil and have had good results so far.

I agree the more oil should help with wear on the engine. It just runs differently than the new gen fuels on the market. That is why it is hard to tell someone if their engine is not tuned properly or running too hot. There are just too many variables. I would definately give the grp pipes a shot if you get a chance though.

Drake's link didn't mention anything about tuning, it was only the break-in procedure. I didn't know anything about the lean lsn and rich hsn. I looked back through the posts but nothing specific is mentioned about tuning procedure. Lets say if I go back to factory settings. Do I tune the lsn or hsn first? I tuned my novas from the top down and this doesn't work well with GRP.

The durability of the GRP pipes is holding me back. I'm lookin more at the 2060 or ninja 2042, maybe even a Bigboy.

Tune the LSN first then tune the HSN on the track as needed. This seems to work best with my engines.

It's common to go back and forth a few times. You have to adjust the lsn so that the engine will idle for a few seconds without flaming. Then you need to adjust the hsn close to the ball park / slightly rich. Then go back to the lsn for a little fine tuning, then back to the hsn for some fine tuning, etc etc.

go with a dynamite 053, its a great pipe. the grp loves it

How did you guys break in your grp's? Should I heat cycle or should I follow the break in method in the manual.

the 2060 dosent work well on this engine, i had to use a 2060 one time it was allright but didnt have the power that the 053 or associated 2035 had

Hello, Can someone tell me how can you tell by the way the motor is running if the plug is too HOT? I am running a P3 right now but am thinking of trying a P4. thanks

+1 tune to smoke and performance and the engine will run strong for man gallons to come. I ran a grp tuned .21 on sidewinder and it liked to run at 220 all day long. I just always tune to smoke and performance.

Fast and hard is best. Well at least more fun.:nod:

One way is to look at the plug element. If the plug is to hot the element will get distorted at high rpms.

Finding the right heat range is best done by trial and error. Instal the next colder plug and re-tune the engine. If you are going in the right direction you will need to lean the needles slightly, you will have more power and cooler running temps. If you go to cold the temps will go up, you will have flame out issues, and problems keeping a good idle.

I love the grp pipe. I havent had anyh issues with it. I think Im gonna order my mew grp tommorrow. Im having a hard time deciding between the new ninja jx or the grp thou. I have a 2nd hand grp now thou that I like alot so I leaning towards that way

I ran my powerhouse modded GRP and it ran 165-175 all night. The motor had 4 tanks on it before that night as well so it was basically new. go on to the powerhouse thread and ask him what the needle settings he has on his cause its dialed. The motor should run cooler not hotter after you get it modded, that with powerhouse modded motors anyway. All my motors have been modded by him and all idle better, run cooler and have more power yet still silky smooth, than in stock form. I cant believe you even got that motor in the 200 degree range.

So far from what I've seen from my Powerhouse modded GRP .21, I wished I had bought the Ninja. Drove a freinds car with a JX-Ninja and a Ninja 2042 pipe a few months ago. The GRP is not even close to the power and delivery of the Ninja.

+1 the motor that is in question is way out of tune ...these motors will run all day long at 160-190 range depending on the circumstances ....if you run a grp at 220-230 range ...you WILL be buying a new piston and sleeve and or a new motor ....its just a fact ....

During break in though you want to keep thhose temps right?

do yourself a favor ...get some colder o.s. plugs and take the needles back to the stock settings ....
hsn=3.5 turns out from bottom
lsn= 6.25 turns out from bottom
idle gap is about 1.25 mm

heat the motor up with a heat gun ....try and crank it ...if it doesnt crank lean the lsn only up a small hour turn ....try again ....if it doesnt crank repeat until it does ....also how did you break it in ....how many tanks did you idle through it ? did you heat cycle it ? did you just blip it around at running temp of no more than 200 degrees? did you wrap the head in aluminum foil? if you didnt you may not have a great impression of the motor ....if you break it in this way you should get many gallons out of it ...i dont just say this because i think it ....i have had a team losi driver (alan burton) teach me how the engine should be broken in and tuned ....they will run at temps above 220 and beyond ...but as jyzf said ...it aint gonna run for long :cry: just my .02 and i have either broken in or helped break in 3 of these motors in the past month ....hope it works for ya ..they are super sweet motors ..they just tune different than say like o.s. motors ....

I will start by first saying I am not one to ruffle feathers but how can it be possible to run a grp motor at 220 and be shortening its lifespan? Is the motor not an ABC sleeve with aluminum piston? What makes the motor so much different than anything else out there that it must be run at that cold of a temp? I do not tune for numbers but by smoke, sound and performance. I use temp only for reference. I am interested in a grp but all this talk of running the motor at such low temps :weird: just doesnt sound right. :weird:

The head of the GRP dissipates heat so well that is runs at that temp. A GRP that is running at 220 is not the same as a NovaRossi running at 220. It would be similar to the Nova being at say 260ish.

Thats good that you tune that way. If you do the same with the GRP, you should find that when you have it running good, the temp will be between 170-190. It's just the way they are. The rid themselves of heat quickly, and run the most consistent temps of any engine I have ran.

can someone tell me what break in method. I was leaning towards heat cycle? Also should I use an 086 or an 053 with the non tuned version.

I'm not talking about just one motor but 2. A modded .21 and a tuned .28.
Both were broken in using differant methods. Yet both tuned and ran virtualy the same. The temps at race tune for both engines was in the 225-235 range. I tuned for preformance, not by temp, and both were slightly rich. Running the engines rich enough to get the temps down below 200 degrees is just not practical. I don't know what I am missing. The preformance was fair at best with slightly rich setting I was running them both at. The engines did run flawlessly through out. No suprizes at all.

I'm not going to go into how each engine was broken-in, but it was differant for each engine.

Break-in / pipe
 

I use the heat cycle method found at johnnycoolguy.com. This method has been good to me. The last GRP I broke in using this method lasted well into the 6.5 to 7 gal mark It was still pulling strong when I sold it.

As for the pipe, if you are running on a small, technical or med track use the 053 pipe. If the track is large or has a large straight away where you can really wind the engine up then use the 086 pipe. Best all around is the 053 pipe in my experience.

great thank you. I want to try both and I have the 086 already so would it be possible to use the 086 manifold with the 053 pipe?

What pipe and plug combo are you running in the GRP?

Powerhouse recommended JP-1, and MC-9 plug

Okay, that is about the only thing I could think of is if the head does an extraordinary job of cooling. It does look rather over sized.

I'm gonna break her in tomorrow guys. Should I take out one or both shims if I'm going to run 20% or will it be ok to do break in with them in there and take them out later if I feel I'm not getting enough power or running a high enough compression ratio. Thanks for any input.

on all the motors i have used to race i have never tuned an engine to run at a certain temp i just tune for the day / event and away you go never had any issues at all with any of the motors ... as for running i heat the motor up 4 tanks through idle 5th tank 1/4 throttle just to put some load on the engine after that usually im write to roll for racing :nod::tire:

all tghe time i have been running i have never tuned a engine to run at a constant temp i beleive that weather and temp and track conditions on the day play a big role aswell on temp if you tune your eng to hold a certain temp you may never get the full potential out of the engine ...

what do you guys think ? do you tune to hold a certain temp ?

no feathers ruffled ...if you take the time to search this thread .........you will find that anybody running this motor who has success has had running temps of the range i mentioned ..it is just a trait of this motor ...i do not temp to tune either ...im simply saying from experience that this motor when ran hot is short lived ...the lower the operating temp the longer it will last ....and at the 160-190 ranbe this motor is on a good tune if tuned right ...its just mine and many many others experience ....just saying its easy to get it out of tune ...it will still run great ....but it wont last long ....like i said its all been said and documented here in this thread ...if you choose to believe the hand full of people that say there op temp is 220-230 ...then check back with them in 3-4 gallons and see what they have to say ....just my opinion ....zixxer who plans on getting 10 gallons out of his smokin fast temps low fancy italian grp motor :nod:

i do agree in what zixxer says but i guess at the end of day you never know until you give this motor a go love it or hate it i personnely only used to use os motors and that was it but decided to give this little baby a shot so far happy :nod::nod: i do like the way the motor delivers the power it is linier compared to other motors i have raced with in the past and the fact you get a pipe and all the carby inserts and also a pit towl to dry your tears at the end of the race meet wondering what went wrong its dam good value :lol:

The team uses the JP-1 on the modded GRP's but Mark would not reccomend the mcoy plug, we are running nova 6's and 7's. However, the plug your running would not be the problem.

Before we discredit the motor, what car is it in? Also what are you running clutch wise? As you probably know, sometimes the wrong clutch set-up can cause the motor to bog and not allow it to perform at its potential. The turbo motors spool up quick but too soft of springs can make the motor feel "soft" on the bottom, which is benificial when running on a track that is a bit slick.

I am not trying to argue with you, im simply trying to help you. So the more info you can give me on the motor set-up the better. Like I said earlier,we have yet to get these motors in the 200's and they have been pulling the "tuned" version as well as ninja's.

I run GRP is both buggy and truggy, same plug, just different pipe. I tune for useable power, but my temps are insanely low. But to say they dont have the power is bull. My rc8t has been know to pull wheelies with the AE 2035 pipe.

For break in I am going to try and heat cycle my non tuned version, so as you guys say these motors dont get above 200 should I just cover the head with aluminum foil to get it up there? Or should I let it be?

1st, Heat the engine case-Not the Fins to around 200f Then, quickly get the engine running.. and get temps to 200f.. As soon as possible.. And moniter the temps alot.. and continue with the heat cycle method. Tin foil, is good.. with my V-Spec I had to take it off.. after a tank or 2.. as I used the OS heat cycle version, where you run it only slightly richer.. but get the temps to 200 as soon a possible, less stress on the engine that way.

What kinda run time are you getting with thatbae pipe in the truggy?

when ever I break in a engine I cant get it up in temp. Do you guys idle the first tank or what? If so do I need to lean the bottom out to get it up in temp?