grippgoat

iTrader: (8)

Re: Decoder upgrade.

I have no problems spending mental energy on the injustice AMB can do.

I also have no MRT transponders, and am somewhat glad the transponders I do have should continue to hold their value on the used market.

Questions:
- Is the upgrade actual new decoder hardware, or just a firmware upgrade?
- Why is the club upgrading? Is there really a need to?
- How much is it costing the club?
- Are we doing it for insurance against a decoder failure?
- Are we having problems with the current decoder?
- Are club members mistakenly buying RC4 non-hybrids and having them not work?
- How many people are using MRT transponders? I know Bill's sold some over the last couple years.
- Did the comp committee talk to the other area on-road clubs about their plans?
- TimeZone, NORA, FastTrax, Galaxy, Fantasy World, Four Seasons?
- Off-Road clubs that some of our members will go to during the summer?
- Are we polishing AMB's knob? Polishing ROAR's knob?

If non-hybrid RC4's were $40 without an upgrade, thus lowering the cost-of-entry to the hobby, I'd be all for it. But they're not. RC4 non-hybrid's are a bad investment for the racer (because some clubs won't upgrade), and upgrading the decoder increases the cost-of-entry for a new racer by removing the more affordable MRT transponder option.

The only way to protest AMB's stranglehold on the market is to not buy into their upgrade BS, and stick with what we have. If it really does make sense to upgrade, I'd at least have expected our club leadership to be more transparent than ROAR about the decision.

To anyone with MRTs or considering the upgrade:
- From what I've read on the thread in the Electric On-Road section, it sounds like hoping the MRTs work with the new decoder is like hoping for a lap dance from <insert your favorite super hot unobtainable fantasy person here>.
- There's 4+ weeks lead time on the exchange program, so be prepared to be without your transponder for a month or longer.
- If you're considering the non-hybrid RC4, you better make sure all the clubs you'll want to race with have the upgraded decoder, or you could be up a creek.

-Mike

Kody

iTrader: (9)

That's to much to process on my phone!

Wes Briscoe

iTrader: (7)

Questions:
- Is the upgrade actual new decoder hardware, or just a firmware upgrade?
Firmware.

- Why is the club upgrading? Is there really a need to?
AMB has put the tracks in a bind the same as a racer. No, technically there is no "need" but we had to decide when do to it, now or later when it costs the club much more.

- How much is it costing the club?
Nothing. Zero. Nadda. No dollars out of pocket... right now. In the future it is not free.

- Are we doing it for insurance against a decoder failure?
No.

- Are we having problems with the current decoder?
No.

- Are club members mistakenly buying RC4 non-hybrids and having them not work?
No data to suggest this.

- How many people are using MRT transponders? I know Bill's sold some over the last couple years.
No data.

- Did the comp committee talk to the other area on-road clubs about their plans?
- TimeZone, NORA, FastTrax, Galaxy, Fantasy World, Four Seasons?
- Off-Road clubs that some of our members will go to during the summer?
Yes.

- Are we polishing AMB's knob? Polishing ROAR's knob?
By putting money in their pockets, technically aren't we all? But if you're asking if we are doing what AMB or ROAR want us to do, no, neither have direct influence over any of the CC members, if that is your implication.

We are in a bind, no doubt about it. It was hard to decide, does a priority go to the new racer or the future racers? If we stick with the old system and cannot upgrade in the future we may find ourselves with new and old racers next season showing up with RC4 transponders that do not work. If we upgrade at the end of season we are giving an entire summer to those running clones a chance to change.

grippgoat

iTrader: (8)

NOTE: My frustration isn't toward the comp committee. I'm sure you guys discussed it and came up with some angle I haven't seen. I'm frustrated with AMB, for creating a situation for clubs and racers where someone gets screwed either way.

-Mike

Wes Briscoe

iTrader: (7)

That reminds me...

It's election time again!

So it's been two years since Brian Bodine and myself were elected for Treasurer and Secretary respectively. Both of these positions are up for election as are our two spots as Representative.

I am seeking nominations....

Treasurer
Secretary
Representative #1
Representative #2

Do your part to help the club. If you have ever wanted to give back or want a louder voice when it comes to how things are ran at Seattle RC Racers now is your chance.

Elections will be held on the last club race which is April 20th. I will accept nominations until April 16th.

Email me your nomination, [email protected], find me on Facebook, or at the track. I would prefer you did not post in the open forum as I do not read the forum really, or accept PM's.

Logi Maker

iTrader: (56)

Oh so the MRTs wont work anymore.... pretty sure Clifton would go in halves with me to get one for Stuart..

- Kyle (peeled)

grippgoat

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the response, Wes.

To spin it negatively, we're caving. To spin it more dramatically, we're being blackmailed. Oh well. I'm just a "conscientious objector" anyway. So I'll shut up meow.

-Mike

Bob-Stormer

iTrader: (8)

for a few extra comments on the sbject, none of our local groups are upgrading to RC4. That includes, Billings, Glasgow, Great falls, and the guys in Minot and Pingree and I think the majority of Colorado clubs (you'd have to check with those guys). No need to upgrade what works "as is", so that you can have your transponders temperature.

I think somebody in Wyoming told me one track though they were going to be clever and just update their firmware, and alienated half the club on the spot... they weren't to pleased about that. Had they known, they wouldn't have.

I talked to Tekin over in Idaho. MRT is all they have in all there stuff. He told me, easier for testing in house if every car has the same number, so they're staying as well.

Doesnt seem to be any value to the racers to upgrade, just gives mylaps a chance to control the market. Just don't need the rc4 upgrade and it's added expense on the club. I'm sure down the road, mylaps will muck it up so that ONLY the rc4's work on RC4 boxes, due to some delayed date coded firmware upgrade to force upgrade completely from the hybrids and MRT's... but even then that would only effect people that have upgraded firmware or bought that rc4 decoder.

Everybody else with the older decoder is doing the happy dance. It's the status quo.

panayos

iTrader: (1)

Regarding the stats on who has an MRT transponder, I am adding myself to the list.

Mylaps is clearly doing that to control the market.

If there isn't a strong reason to upgrade to the new decoder, I would rather spend the approx. $100 to buy a new motor, servo or battery.
I don't like the fact that I will have to spend $100 without getting anything in return...

Panos

OVA

iTrader: (86)

.

grippgoat

iTrader: (8)

I talked to Bruce, he had something to say:

+ YouTube Video

-Mike

PutAwayWet

iTrader: (1)

I think Bill and Wes have done a very good job explaining the Comp Committee's decision. I won't repeat what they have said. I will, however, expand on one factor in our decision: the club's decoder history.

As some may recall, I certainly do, the club's first decoder did die. A race was scheduled, the track was built, we had a turnout of racers ready to rock, and...no timing and scoring. After, I spent the better part of two weeks scrambling to figure out what was up so that it wouldn't happen at the next race. I pirated a new CPU from our law office, begged new software from Doug at RC Scoring Pro, bought a 232 Port tester, and did whatever I could think of to get us up and running. As it turned out, our indestructible ultra-reliable Amb decoder had breathed its last.

The Amb "service" option was a new decoder for our old one and $1500. Which, at the time, was half off the price of the new decoders they were rolling out. Fortunately, Ben Wheeler was willing to loan us his until we could replace ours. Since the club had no money, I covered the down payment on a new box and Amb was willing to let me pay the balance in installments from our race entries. I signed an agreement and they sent us a new decoder with money still owed.

While Amb decoders are very durable and we can expect years of good service, they do fail. We had one do exactly that. Amb does not mess around on its prices. I was able to work out a plan, but they did not drop the price one penny. I am inclined to take them at their advertised word. Until March 31, an upgrade is $330 (or free for those who have the new decoder that can be firmware flashed.) After March 31, it is $3400. The "service" option for all legacy equipment will be a new box for $3400. This is consistent with our experience. Amb plays hardball. They are Dutch company that owns the worldwide timing and scoring market in a wide array of timed sports. RC racing is but one small slice of their business. The US offices are not a repair shop, they are sales and distribution. Anyone who expects a solution from them will most likely be disappointed.

And, so it's understood. I have the upgrade firmware on my computer. I've opened it up and had a look. It is keyed to our decoder by serial number. It will work for our decoder. I'm pretty sure if someone later wanted to upgrade their decoder with our software, it would not work. That's a bit of info I have not seen circulating.

One of my priorities as club president is to hand off to the next president the club's hardware, accounts, contracts, and venues in topnotch condition with a minimum of liabilities. A $3400 decoder overhead does not satisfy that priority.

No one, including myself, is enamored with Amb for engineering this change. By giving early notice, we hope that racers with MRT transponders will be able to trade them in for new Amb units over the several months between the end of this season and the beginning of next. Be assured that the cheapest trade-in option, the new RC4 for $35, will be compatible with our decoder in the fall.

Bob-Stormer

iTrader: (8)

Todd, sounds like you are doing a good job of looking out for the club, good job on that.

Here's what we decided. Mylaps needs a certain amount of planned obsolescence to make a living. Otherwise it's a one time sell and you never hear from the consumer again.

Leaving MRT out of it for the sake of ease in the discussion, If the new RC4 decoder detects all mylaps transponders. But the old decoders do NOT acknowledge the RC4 transponder. The implication is that it's possible for mylaps to eventually turn off the feature that allows the mylaps hybrid transponders to count. forcing all of us to upgrade. For all we know there is something in the firmware now that will shut off at a particular date.

Mylaps isn't doing this because it's good for the racers, they are doing it for what is good for mylaps. And that is figuring out how to charge us for new things. Or they could have simply come out with new firmware that didn't acknowledge the MRT and NOT also released a new transponder with a suspiciously low price. They want MRT gone, and they want to sell us more transponders. They don't get to sell us more transponders if we're all happy and content with what we have and what they sell works and works with the oldest of the transponders.

Gonna be awkward for a while while people sort it out. Most still don't understand it all. It's like watching sausage being made. 99% of people just want the dang transponder to count, and don't give one lick about the technology behind it, or even care. And they shouldn't, really.

Mylaps just wants to sell us all more transponders (which is fine). I'm pretty confident I can see where this is headed. And it doesn't end with mylaps saying, "we sold a lot of transponders 10 years ago, that's cool, we don't need to sell more of them to keep the lights on here". Or they could have just upgraded the firmware to not allow MRT. Because transponder voltage and temperature are possibly two of the most worthless pieces of information ever. No reason to cost the club money to upgrade for that. Unless they start waving the "gonna cost you more later" flag around. And that gets folks curious.

Me, I bought a spare decoder, we're good forever, we all count. And when both decoders die... well, probably be time to change something. and used decoders are going to start popping up on ebay, likely with a higher frequency than before.

Interesting to see how it all sorts out.

LEM C

iTrader: (1)

Just to clarify, you can trade in an MRT for a RC4 for $35.98 and the old AMB transponders will still work with the new timing system correct? If that's the case is the address on their website (2030 Powers Ferry Road Suite 110 Atlanta,Ga 30339) the correct address to send the transponder to or is there a different one that you guys know of?

OVA

iTrader: (86)

good choice