Team Magic G4
08-30-2010, 06:24 PM
6) Im using 6000 oil in the rear diff.
Bingo
Try 30,000
Also , see if you can post up some pics of your rear tyres
LS
BingoTry 30,000
Also , see if you can post up some pics of your rear tyres
LS
08-30-2010, 10:52 PM
Tyre strategy
Under the body/Shell theres like foam powder in the bottom corners. I wouldnt say theres MUCH foam but its noticeable.
I will answer in the same number order:
1) I have standard setup, but i can try to decrease droop.
2) What do you mean front locker?
3) Well as i said, i have 19t back middle, 27T front middle and 18T front pulley. It would help to have smaller pulley front middle and a little bigger on back middle.
4) No our track is very smooth
5) Yes the rear is some what stiff, im using aqua spring with 35wt and 2-hole piston.
6) Im using 6000 oil in the rear diff.
7) Dont know how i can drive too hard on the rear, how do you mean?
8) No bumps, our track is smooth...
9) bigger split?
10) All belts are new, only run with them 3-4 times.
Yes the tires looses chunks of foam on the outer side, but i think thats when the car rolls or i hit the curb to much (we have pretty bad curbs)
Our track is kind of small, tight, 12.5-13sek for one lap.
I have not checked exactly how much wear in 5 minutes, but its more wear on the rear than the front.
I really appreciate the help, im desperate, i cant afford changing tires this much
I will answer in the same number order:
1) I have standard setup, but i can try to decrease droop.
2) What do you mean front locker?
3) Well as i said, i have 19t back middle, 27T front middle and 18T front pulley. It would help to have smaller pulley front middle and a little bigger on back middle.
4) No our track is very smooth
5) Yes the rear is some what stiff, im using aqua spring with 35wt and 2-hole piston.
6) Im using 6000 oil in the rear diff.
7) Dont know how i can drive too hard on the rear, how do you mean?
8) No bumps, our track is smooth...
9) bigger split?
10) All belts are new, only run with them 3-4 times.
Yes the tires looses chunks of foam on the outer side, but i think thats when the car rolls or i hit the curb to much (we have pretty bad curbs)
Our track is kind of small, tight, 12.5-13sek for one lap.
I have not checked exactly how much wear in 5 minutes, but its more wear on the rear than the front.
I really appreciate the help, im desperate, i cant afford changing tires this much
A 64mm fresh tyre unless very hard (42+) wont have a sidewall capable of supporting the lateral load and will likely chunk. THUS... ruining tyres anyway.
Our magic @ England Park
40shore / 62r / 60f split and will finish a 5 min round with at least 2mm wear.
You need to use a truer: Give yourself a 2mm split each round. Also means that with only one set at a time, you'll have to continually change chassis setup as you lose your ride height and raising the car uses up the droop.
Start
63-61--> 61-60
62-60 --> 60-59
Then - Ride height and droop
61-59 --> 59-58
59 - 57 --> 57 - 56
Club Racing:
Longer pinions.. adjust 2 speed tighter. (more rpm)
57 - 55 --> 55 - 54
And take car of tyres when driving.. spinning up with a poor diff or biting at kerbs wont help the budget
h
08-31-2010, 04:25 AM
I need more grip front so the tires wear equaly, cause right now i can run 3 pairs of rear tyres on ONE pair of front tyres. And thats not normal...
08-31-2010, 04:49 AM
Are you sure about that?. I want less grip in the rear and more in the front, wont thicker oil in the rear give more grip to the rear tyres?.
I need more grip front so the tires wear equaly, cause right now i can run 3 pairs of rear tyres on ONE pair of front tyres. And thats not normal...
I need more grip front so the tires wear equaly, cause right now i can run 3 pairs of rear tyres on ONE pair of front tyres. And thats not normal...
08-31-2010, 06:36 AM
The lighter diff oil will unload the inner tyre far easier, hence your high tyre wear.
A heavier diff oil ( 50,000 ) may be stopping the diff action altogether and making both tyres spin in unison.
I reckon go to 30,000 first , then gauge your tyre wear from there.
Springs , roll centres , sway bar settings , camber can also change the wear rate.
A heavier diff oil ( 50,000 ) may be stopping the diff action altogether and making both tyres spin in unison.
I reckon go to 30,000 first , then gauge your tyre wear from there.
Springs , roll centres , sway bar settings , camber can also change the wear rate.
08-31-2010, 07:07 AM
The lighter diff oil will unload the inner tyre far easier, hence your high tyre wear.
A heavier diff oil ( 50,000 ) may be stopping the diff action altogether and making both tyres spin in unison.
I reckon go to 30,000 first , then gauge your tyre wear from there.
Springs , roll centres , sway bar settings , camber can also change the wear rate.
A heavier diff oil ( 50,000 ) may be stopping the diff action altogether and making both tyres spin in unison.
I reckon go to 30,000 first , then gauge your tyre wear from there.
Springs , roll centres , sway bar settings , camber can also change the wear rate.
Okey, i will try 30k diffoil rear then
Springs then, i have aqua back and orange front. Should i go softer?
And what shock oil do you guys recommend?. I have 30wt rear and 35wt front
I have to much camber said my mate at the track. So i will decrease camber.
Thanks guys for all the help, i will do an update when i have driven the car again. Though it could take a while, its been raining like crazy
09-04-2010, 10:00 AM
I drove at the track today, i think 30k diff oil made a difference in the problems i had.
BUT now the car has much more drive on the rear tires. I cant get any grip, i spin out very easily.
What can i change to make the rear tires grip more?
I had 37 tires on front and rear today, so i dont believe its the tires that are to hard.
More camber, more toe-in maybe? or what can make the car get more grip on the rear?
BUT now the car has much more drive on the rear tires. I cant get any grip, i spin out very easily.
What can i change to make the rear tires grip more?
I had 37 tires on front and rear today, so i dont believe its the tires that are to hard.
More camber, more toe-in maybe? or what can make the car get more grip on the rear?
09-04-2010, 01:39 PM
number of things could help.
stabiliser setting, shock angles, roll centres, front caster change.
Make sure you run at least 1.5mm smaller diameter front tyres.
sure there will be more suggestions but it would help more if you posted your current setup.
stabiliser setting, shock angles, roll centres, front caster change.
Make sure you run at least 1.5mm smaller diameter front tyres.
sure there will be more suggestions but it would help more if you posted your current setup.
09-04-2010, 04:17 PM
09-04-2010, 06:59 PM
Some things i noticed, your rear ride height seems to high compared to the front. I would usually only run a 1/2mm difference between the two.
Also, I would drop the the rear camber link to the bottom hole on the inside to encourage some more camber change on the rear tyres.
I have always found the rear of the G4 to be loose, some of this seems to be caused by the amount of steering the car has, I think Blis found this and he had to reduce the EPA adjustments for the steering servos and reduce the steering on the car. The WCE upgrade might be worth a look with the adjustable rear roll centre!!!
Good to see someone still giving the G4S a good crack!
09-05-2010, 02:08 AM
502x
Sonsa:
Some things i noticed, your rear ride height seems to high compared to the front. I would usually only run a 1/2mm difference between the two.
Also, I would drop the the rear camber link to the bottom hole on the inside to encourage some more camber change on the rear tyres.
I have always found the rear of the G4 to be loose, some of this seems to be caused by the amount of steering the car has, I think Blis found this and he had to reduce the EPA adjustments for the steering servos and reduce the steering on the car. The WCE upgrade might be worth a look with the adjustable rear roll centre!!!
Good to see someone still giving the G4S a good crack!
Some things i noticed, your rear ride height seems to high compared to the front. I would usually only run a 1/2mm difference between the two.
Also, I would drop the the rear camber link to the bottom hole on the inside to encourage some more camber change on the rear tyres.
I have always found the rear of the G4 to be loose, some of this seems to be caused by the amount of steering the car has, I think Blis found this and he had to reduce the EPA adjustments for the steering servos and reduce the steering on the car. The WCE upgrade might be worth a look with the adjustable rear roll centre!!!
Good to see someone still giving the G4S a good crack!
Hey Bundy, was good to finally catch up.
If I say so myself, I had the G4+ running better than Ive had before. We were up against modified engines... Anyway.. things I have done lately that seemed to have made a difference
Firstly I stole the LX shocks off the EVO and setup with same springs all round. We use Turquoise and didnt get tempted to go harder as the track has a few bumps. Key was to balance up the suspension and have enough droop. Running the softer springs raised our ride height to 5mm front 6mm rear, car looked good and didnt seem to be bottoming out (without downstop)
The shocks seemed to make a difference in the way the car sat... the G4+ tend to lock up and need a lot of attention.
We narrowed the front end slightly and it seemed to help with the rear. Will be looking into this more in future. I needed to reduce the track width and after cracking a couple of arms, I cut down all my arm ball joints so to allow for a narrower track width. I find the magic tricky to narrow into a regulation box. Ultimately I switched across to Capricorn tyres as the Matrix we have had +2 offset KFactory 40s would have worked, but we didnt have enough to run. Capricorm tyres worked well.
Ive also shortened rear wheel base, switched to WC front end and ran the lightened 4mm plate. NOTE: The countersunk washers bit the track, werent recessed enough for the EVO plate. So much for using the new rear end, we also stole the fresh diff too. EVO ball joints are much looser than the G4+, so steering assembly stolen too.
The sweet spot mm diameter is 60f 62r everything comes good in terms of suspension. The up and downstop range is optimal and I have a gut feeling to keep springs same until proven otherwise helps diagnose other problems. Id go as far to say that 37 tyres arent a cheap way to tune.
09-05-2010, 03:32 AM
if you want to gain more camber, you have to run a shorter top arm, which id believe you would have to use the RS rear hubs. if i remember they are the ones with the 2 holes on top, to have long or short top rear arm.
09-05-2010, 05:10 AM
Bundy, the higher / lower camber link changes roll center, not camber rise.
if you want to gain more camber, you have to run a shorter top arm, which id believe you would have to use the RS rear hubs. if i remember they are the ones with the 2 holes on top, to have long or short top rear arm.
if you want to gain more camber, you have to run a shorter top arm, which id believe you would have to use the RS rear hubs. if i remember they are the ones with the 2 holes on top, to have long or short top rear arm.
Patto:
Sorry i got it wrong... I have always called it that, apart from when the bottom arms are adjustable:P
Sorry guess i am still a NOOB!!!!
09-05-2010, 05:12 AM
Hey Bundy, was good to finally catch up.
If I say so myself, I had the G4+ running better than Ive had before. We were up against modified engines... Anyway.. things I have done lately that seemed to have made a difference
Firstly I stole the LX shocks off the EVO and setup with same springs all round. We use Turquoise and didnt get tempted to go harder as the track has a few bumps. Key was to balance up the suspension and have enough droop. Running the softer springs raised our ride height to 5mm front 6mm rear, car looked good and didnt seem to be bottoming out (without downstop)
The shocks seemed to make a difference in the way the car sat... the G4+ tend to lock up and need a lot of attention.
We narrowed the front end slightly and it seemed to help with the rear. Will be looking into this more in future. I needed to reduce the track width and after cracking a couple of arms, I cut down all my arm ball joints so to allow for a narrower track width. I find the magic tricky to narrow into a regulation box. Ultimately I switched across to Capricorn tyres as the Matrix we have had +2 offset KFactory 40s would have worked, but we didnt have enough to run. Capricorm tyres worked well.
Ive also shortened rear wheel base, switched to WC front end and ran the lightened 4mm plate. NOTE: The countersunk washers bit the track, werent recessed enough for the EVO plate. So much for using the new rear end, we also stole the fresh diff too. EVO ball joints are much looser than the G4+, so steering assembly stolen too.
The sweet spot mm diameter is 60f 62r everything comes good in terms of suspension. The up and downstop range is optimal and I have a gut feeling to keep springs same until proven otherwise helps diagnose other problems. Id go as far to say that 37 tyres arent a cheap way to tune.
If I say so myself, I had the G4+ running better than Ive had before. We were up against modified engines... Anyway.. things I have done lately that seemed to have made a difference
Firstly I stole the LX shocks off the EVO and setup with same springs all round. We use Turquoise and didnt get tempted to go harder as the track has a few bumps. Key was to balance up the suspension and have enough droop. Running the softer springs raised our ride height to 5mm front 6mm rear, car looked good and didnt seem to be bottoming out (without downstop)
The shocks seemed to make a difference in the way the car sat... the G4+ tend to lock up and need a lot of attention.
We narrowed the front end slightly and it seemed to help with the rear. Will be looking into this more in future. I needed to reduce the track width and after cracking a couple of arms, I cut down all my arm ball joints so to allow for a narrower track width. I find the magic tricky to narrow into a regulation box. Ultimately I switched across to Capricorn tyres as the Matrix we have had +2 offset KFactory 40s would have worked, but we didnt have enough to run. Capricorm tyres worked well.
Ive also shortened rear wheel base, switched to WC front end and ran the lightened 4mm plate. NOTE: The countersunk washers bit the track, werent recessed enough for the EVO plate. So much for using the new rear end, we also stole the fresh diff too. EVO ball joints are much looser than the G4+, so steering assembly stolen too.
The sweet spot mm diameter is 60f 62r everything comes good in terms of suspension. The up and downstop range is optimal and I have a gut feeling to keep springs same until proven otherwise helps diagnose other problems. Id go as far to say that 37 tyres arent a cheap way to tune.
It was a pleasure, thanks for taking time out of your busy weekend to talk to me. You had the car dialed and it was an inspiration!
Keep up the good work...
09-05-2010, 05:29 AM
just had a look at some setup sheets, to refresh my memory, and only one hole available on the hubs. i would look at using the RS diff cover, as it is plastic as well, and then have some camber rise options, short or long rear top arm.