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Old 07-26-2008, 03:11 PM   #9541
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Originally Posted by XPHamer View Post
Menace, will you have time to make it over to Toledo for the GLC next weekend?

We hope you can make a visit.
I don't think I'm going to be able to make this one............

I hate having to say that as I enjoyed the last one so much.
Going through a work change which involves re-locating.
So the time for entries came and went before I noticed.

Nevermind.......always next year.

British Menace
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:16 PM   #9542
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That sounds interesting!
Question for you...

Were you using a front diff or a spool? Could you share with us your diffs settings, front and rear?

Thanks for your suggestions!!
Hello gtrmx,

Yes it's interesting stuff. I'm planning on going even softer soon as I've just had a range of springs delivered that go very soft !

On the diff's....sure. No secrets with me!

Front: I ran the spool and caster was kept central.
Rear: I ran 10,000WT Ofna. (I fill my diffs all the way up without pressurizing them) So if you normally fill to the top of the bars I would say you need to go a little stiffer then 10K.

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Old 07-26-2008, 09:02 PM   #9543
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can anyone help?
trying to work out the model of a team magic car i recently purchased
top deck is a tad different from a G4RS and rear sway bar is different,but looking at a couple of pics of other cars there must be 2 different styles of sway bars or is this the rool centre??
also front suspension arms are not solid as like on the G4RS and battery seems to be positioned in a different spot
thanks chris

Last edited by RACER12; 07-27-2008 at 02:11 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:33 AM   #9544
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Originally Posted by RACER12 View Post
can anyone help?
trying to work out the model of a tem magic car i recently purchased
top deck is a tad different from a G4RS and rear sway bar is different,but looking at a couple of pics of other cars there must be 2 different styles of sway bars or is this the rool centre??
also front suspension arms are not solid as like on the G4RS and battery seems to be positioned in a different spot
thanks chris
a picture speaks a thousand words...
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:44 AM   #9545
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Originally Posted by RACER12 View Post
can anyone help?
trying to work out the model of a team magic car i recently purchased
top deck is a tad different from a G4RS and rear sway bar is different,but looking at a couple of pics of other cars there must be 2 different styles of sway bars or is this the rool centre??
also front suspension arms are not solid as like on the G4RS and battery seems to be positioned in a different spot
thanks chris
It sounds like you have one of these.........

G4 EVO
G4 Mongoose
G4 E type.

These all had the battery pack where the receiver is now on the 'S' and 'RS' (Between the motor and the tank)
With the receiver hanging out from the side. Just rear of the throttle servo.

The rear sway bar on all G4 cars except the 'RS' and the PLUS (+) were at the rear of the car and looks identical to the front bar and holders.

Hope this helps.
Regards,

British Menace
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:47 AM   #9546
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Also.
Look at the sterring mechanism on the car.

The Mongoose and the EVO had a swing rack steering system, similar to the Ass' TC3.

The "E Type" had the original steering which consisted of a rack which slides on two bars within the front baulkheads.

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Old 07-27-2008, 07:49 PM   #9547
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Hi All,

Going somewhat 'Off topic'..........

I had a chance to spend some time testing different set-ups along the lines of an idea I've had for some time.

I've always thought we run our cars far too stiff (spring wise I mean)
I've also thought that we run our shock oils far too light.

Anyway. At the recent Byrons race at Joliet Illinois I had the chance to test my idea out.
The track is very smooth and flat. I ran 1.3mm (15LB) springs. and began using heavy oils in the shocks. I ended up with 80WT Losi oil. Thats about 1070 cps. In both front and rear of the car.

The car was very stable and very "flat" on the race track. Had very little roll as would be expected.
The camber of both front and rear had to be altered because of this too.
Camber ending up at -0.5 to -1 Degree at the front and -2 to -2.5 degrees at the rear !
Also the rear toe ended up at only -1.5 degrees which is not unheard of, with a front toe of +0.5 degrees.

The tire wear was very low and the car felt good. What was another side benefit was when the traction came up......and became very high. The car still handled very well. Even though others were suffering from traction rolling!
My roll bars were at a soft setting. Front: Flat and Rear: about 30 to 45 Degrees.
I ran softer tires (38 S Front and 40 S Rear) and still had wear comparible to others there.

After all this. I just wish now my ability to drive these cars was better...... lol.
Don't we all wish that?

I'm looking at going even softer on the springing and higher on the oils with probably the need for stronger roll bars required.

We'll see how it goes.

Regards and I hope others have a chance to try this stuff out and let me know what you think.

British Menace
sounds interesting Menace.
as you know that the many suspension adjustments effect the cars greatly in how they respond. on a flat good traction track you could go hard dampening, and springs. as you stiffen the car, it gets more responsive to initial directional changes, but there is a trade off as to how direct the car feels, and to how much grip is available at a given time. what i can see happening here is the lack of spring rate, and the heavy oils, is slowing the shock movement considerably. if it doing this then the car as you stated is rolling less in corners or directional changes, or under acceleration and braking. so this really means that all the other adjustments like roll centers, and anti roll bars are actually having less effect on the way the car handles. i cant see this setup working on a bumpy track as good as it would on a nice flat surface, but what you are doing is tuning the car by taking out the so many other adjustments that effect the cars roll and grip. so you have basically simplified your tuning of the chassis
what i have tried in the past is similar but then using heavier springs, so you retain the same shock response with the thicker oils. this made the car very responsive, but yet didnt take any grip away, as the roll centers and swaybars still had a fair bit of effect. by using the harder springs with heavier oils, you can run the car low, and then the lack of suspension travel also eliminates the effect of the other inputs, as the car has less suspension travel. the best thing i suggest to any one before trying out any shock mods or roll center changes is to get the car balanced first. that means a lot of time is spent on getting the car balanced left to right, at the front and the rear of the car. then most others overlook the value of setting up the radio gear as far as the steering servo's throw left to right. sometimes one notch on the servo lever to gear to make it off center, can make the throw of the steering angles even from left to right also. makes for a very consistent car to start tuning with. keep up the testing Tony, i know you will try anything and everything.
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:31 AM   #9548
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Originally Posted by RACER12 View Post
can anyone help?
trying to work out the model of a team magic car i recently purchased
top deck is a tad different from a G4RS and rear sway bar is different,but looking at a couple of pics of other cars there must be 2 different styles of sway bars or is this the rool centre??
also front suspension arms are not solid as like on the G4RS and battery seems to be positioned in a different spot
thanks chris
What did you get Chris ?

let me know

Luis
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:42 AM   #9549
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Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
sounds interesting Menace.
as you know that the many suspension adjustments effect the cars greatly in how they respond. on a flat good traction track you could go hard dampening, and springs. as you stiffen the car, it gets more responsive to initial directional changes, but there is a trade off as to how direct the car feels, and to how much grip is available at a given time. what i can see happening here is the lack of spring rate, and the heavy oils, is slowing the shock movement considerably. if it doing this then the car as you stated is rolling less in corners or directional changes, or under acceleration and braking. so this really means that all the other adjustments like roll centers, and anti roll bars are actually having less effect on the way the car handles. i cant see this setup working on a bumpy track as good as it would on a nice flat surface, but what you are doing is tuning the car by taking out the so many other adjustments that effect the cars roll and grip. so you have basically simplified your tuning of the chassis
what i have tried in the past is similar but then using heavier springs, so you retain the same shock response with the thicker oils. this made the car very responsive, but yet didnt take any grip away, as the roll centers and swaybars still had a fair bit of effect. by using the harder springs with heavier oils, you can run the car low, and then the lack of suspension travel also eliminates the effect of the other inputs, as the car has less suspension travel. the best thing i suggest to any one before trying out any shock mods or roll center changes is to get the car balanced first. that means a lot of time is spent on getting the car balanced left to right, at the front and the rear of the car. then most others overlook the value of setting up the radio gear as far as the steering servo's throw left to right. sometimes one notch on the servo lever to gear to make it off center, can make the throw of the steering angles even from left to right also. makes for a very consistent car to start tuning with. keep up the testing Tony, i know you will try anything and everything.
I agree Paul.
I had the same concerns over this set up on more bumpy surfaces.

I took this set up to another excelent permenant track at St. Louis. This track is not quite as flat as the Leisure Hours track. It has a couple of bumpy sections and a couple of area's where a bump can/ could upset the car.

I was fully expecting for some adjustment to have to be made due to these bumps but to my surprise, the car handled very well. I believe it's because I haven't gone that drastic with the spring to oil ratio yet to have had enough of an effect to effect the dampening for such bumpy surfaces.

I think once the set up 'idea' becomes a little more radical and the spring to oil ratio gets even closer, I will see some problems as you have pointed out Paul. Be interesting to see at what stage this comes??!

If only I had a little more ability to push the car a little more and see just how far this can go

We'll see.

Next race (Joliet, IL. ...Flat track !) I plan on 5LB spings and 1070 CPS oil !! Then I will go from there.
I will start with hardly any camber at the front (-0.5 D) and around 1 Degree at the rear and see what tire wear charactoristics I get.

I will no doubt have to use soft tires again (in comparison to what others are using in the same conditions...) but I was surprised last time that my tire wear with the softer tires, was compatible with the other cars!! If anything, it was slightly better.

Interesting stuff

Regards,
British Menace
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:13 AM   #9550
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Thought I'd do a follow up on the 2nd spur stripping problem. After milling the rear side brace, repositioning the engine so the bell doesn't hit 2nd spur when engaged, and making sure that my 2nd gear shoe had both screws tightened perfectly evenly, I had no problem whatsoever lasting through a 5 minutes heat yesterday . Unfortunately we didn't run a main due to a storm but the gears showed no wear after 2 consecutive heats. Set my personal best on the track too. Still about 1 second behind to be enough to run with the fast guys, but I'm getting there .

Last edited by PrimeAKF11; 07-28-2008 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Oops - wrote 'mains' instead of 'heats'
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:20 AM   #9551
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Thought I'd do a follow up on the 2nd spur stripping problem. After milling the rear side brace, repositioning the engine so the bell doesn't hit 2nd spur when engaged, and making sure that my 2nd gear shoe had both screws tightened perfectly evenly, I had no problem whatsoever lasting through a 5 minutes heat yesterday . Unfortunately we didn't run a main due to a storm but the gears showed no wear after 2 consecutive mains. Set my personal best on the track too. Still about 1 second behind to be enough to run with the fast guys, but I'm getting there .
Good job Prime and good work. Once the worry of thing's like stripping gears goes out of your head, it's sure to help you concentrate on your driving.

Well done sir.

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #9552
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
Thought I'd do a follow up on the 2nd spur stripping problem. After milling the rear side brace, repositioning the engine so the bell doesn't hit 2nd spur when engaged, and making sure that my 2nd gear shoe had both screws tightened perfectly evenly, I had no problem whatsoever lasting through a 5 minutes heat yesterday . Unfortunately we didn't run a main due to a storm but the gears showed no wear after 2 consecutive heats. Set my personal best on the track too. Still about 1 second behind to be enough to run with the fast guys, but I'm getting there .
Prime,

Glad you were able to get it all worked out. Now you can get down to racing and pushing the car harder. I know once I resolved the issue several of the other racers were quite surprised at just how fast my car really is. With the shoe not slipping and spur gears not stripping it's a whole other ballgame.

G4RS

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Old 07-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #9553
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What did you get Chris ?

let me know

Luis
lois i will post some pictures on the thread tonight
still not a 100 percent sure what model,picked it up cheap on ebay a couple off weeks ago
it also come with a clutch will post pictures of that also
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:16 PM   #9554
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I agree Paul.
I had the same concerns over this set up on more bumpy surfaces.

I took this set up to another excelent permenant track at St. Louis. This track is not quite as flat as the Leisure Hours track. It has a couple of bumpy sections and a couple of area's where a bump can/ could upset the car.

I was fully expecting for some adjustment to have to be made due to these bumps but to my surprise, the car handled very well. I believe it's because I haven't gone that drastic with the spring to oil ratio yet to have had enough of an effect to effect the dampening for such bumpy surfaces.

I think once the set up 'idea' becomes a little more radical and the spring to oil ratio gets even closer, I will see some problems as you have pointed out Paul. Be interesting to see at what stage this comes??!

If only I had a little more ability to push the car a little more and see just how far this can go

We'll see.

Next race (Joliet, IL. ...Flat track !) I plan on 5LB spings and 1070 CPS oil !! Then I will go from there.
I will start with hardly any camber at the front (-0.5 D) and around 1 Degree at the rear and see what tire wear charactoristics I get.

I will no doubt have to use soft tires again (in comparison to what others are using in the same conditions...) but I was surprised last time that my tire wear with the softer tires, was compatible with the other cars!! If anything, it was slightly better.

Interesting stuff

Regards,
British Menace
Just as a curiosity, what type of tyres and what diameter do you run them?

....I bet you your car feels better in the finals when you use big tyres ....

I reckon you are having to run a softer shore to compensate for the hard damping, this way you are getting some tyre flex..

I'll give it a try though, I've found that the TM springs are too "linear" and get too hard too quick, just compare them to anything from Kyosho, Xray, Mugen etc...
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:41 PM   #9555
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Just as a curiosity, what type of tyres and what diameter do you run them?

....I bet you your car feels better in the finals when you use big tyres ....

I reckon you are having to run a softer shore to compensate for the hard damping, this way you are getting some tyre flex..

I'll give it a try though, I've found that the TM springs are too "linear" and get too hard too quick, just compare them to anything from Kyosho, Xray, Mugen etc...
Hi Sp Racer,

Good thought about the tires and could well be right.
I ran 58 F, 60 R for the Qualifiers and "was" going to run 59F, 61 Rear for the main (45 mins !!)

Something to think about:
Full size cars run wheel frequencies (CPM) any where between 150 to 500, with drivers complaining of a "Rock Hard Ride" !! at 500 + !!
If you work out our CPM with some 'standard' strength springs, it comes out to like 20,000 CPM !!! So a little hard..........lol

But, whatever works............
I just want to see how our car handles with a scaled down "full size set up", if you see what I mean.

Regards,
British Menace
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