Team Magic G4
07-23-2007, 07:36 AM
#7741
Tech Rookie
Ride height?
Hi Menace,
Thanks for the reply,Sorry I was not trying to get on your case
And I did not know you were a race mechanic, you must have been good because Menu did rather well I seem to remember !
Would it be possible to work out or scale up, our cornering forces ? So we could have some idea how much load we put into our cars in comparison to full size racing ?
Its interesting what you say about tyre size/ride height altering the roll centre, when it comes to long finals this will have an effect. Without thinking about it, I have accidently avoided this by not altering the ride height when I put on large tyres for the final......I dont alter the ride height, the tyre size determines the ride height (9mm front / 8mm rear, on TM set up system) and this season my car has been fantastic in finals, it feels exactly the same to drive as in qualifying !!
I think this really helps that the car is so consistent, and if the tyres wear even, then you will have a car that just gets quicker through the final I would recommend this way to anyone, and the car will run down to 3.5mm ride height (with small tyres) with no problems even with our bumpy tracks !
Thanks Menace, I learnt something there, Good stuff
For the outdrives, the K14125 are much better, you can always put some heatshrink over the outdrive, then put some grease in (the heatshrink will keep the grease in) and you will have long lasting dog bones & out drives !! If you run them dry on a dusty track, anything will wear !
For the CVD end I use serpent premium lube, this works well.
Good Luck.
Thanks for the reply,Sorry I was not trying to get on your case
And I did not know you were a race mechanic, you must have been good because Menu did rather well I seem to remember !Would it be possible to work out or scale up, our cornering forces ? So we could have some idea how much load we put into our cars in comparison to full size racing ?
Its interesting what you say about tyre size/ride height altering the roll centre, when it comes to long finals this will have an effect. Without thinking about it, I have accidently avoided this by not altering the ride height when I put on large tyres for the final......I dont alter the ride height, the tyre size determines the ride height (9mm front / 8mm rear, on TM set up system) and this season my car has been fantastic in finals, it feels exactly the same to drive as in qualifying !!
I think this really helps that the car is so consistent, and if the tyres wear even, then you will have a car that just gets quicker through the final
I would recommend this way to anyone, and the car will run down to 3.5mm ride height (with small tyres) with no problems even with our bumpy tracks !Thanks Menace, I learnt something there, Good stuff
For the outdrives, the K14125 are much better, you can always put some heatshrink over the outdrive, then put some grease in (the heatshrink will keep the grease in) and you will have long lasting dog bones & out drives !! If you run them dry on a dusty track, anything will wear !
For the CVD end I use serpent premium lube, this works well.
Good Luck.
07-23-2007, 09:26 AM
#7742
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
I am Stumped. I replaced the 2speed one way and the 2 speed shoe cam. I cleaned out the one way with alcohol twice. and still I get a slipping 2 speed. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not getting vibration in the 2speed shaft at high speed that causes it to let go??? I'm open to any other suggestions as to what might cause this. Again I can find no binding in the drive train at all.
07-23-2007, 10:03 AM
#7743
Hi karlsen,
With front tyres 2mm samller than the rears the ride height will be the same front and rear, I always run the car level, or slightly lower on the front...
Good Luck.
With front tyres 2mm samller than the rears the ride height will be the same front and rear, I always run the car level, or slightly lower on the front...
Good Luck.
07-23-2007, 10:36 AM
#7744
I am Stumped. I replaced the 2speed one way and the 2 speed shoe cam. I cleaned out the one way with alcohol twice. and still I get a slipping 2 speed. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not getting vibration in the 2speed shaft at high speed that causes it to let go??? I'm open to any other suggestions as to what might cause this. Again I can find no binding in the drive train at all.
if yes then there is something not kosher there.
Did you put on oneway lube after cleaning or check if bearing was locking on shaft when turning by hand ?
Shouldt be the shaft , if anything teh 2 speed cam could be a problem.
I had one that the hole in teh cam was not in the true centre but slightly of.You should notice it by eye or even measure teh wall thickness of teh cam.
07-23-2007, 12:41 PM
#7745
Tech Regular
I am Stumped. I replaced the 2speed one way and the 2 speed shoe cam. I cleaned out the one way with alcohol twice. and still I get a slipping 2 speed. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not getting vibration in the 2speed shaft at high speed that causes it to let go??? I'm open to any other suggestions as to what might cause this. Again I can find no binding in the drive train at all.
Clean the bearing and put 2 drops of Serpent oneway bearing.
this is making me
07-23-2007, 01:20 PM
#7746
Car was awsome! It was so stable through the chicanes.
The only issue i had was with the clutch. I first started with the red clutch shoe , red counter weights and black 1.8 spring at .5mm spring tension (distance between the top of the threads to the top of the clutch nut.It slipped so much that the clutch shoe melted. I switched to the stock black shoe, stayed with red counter weights and yellow spring and it was better however it kept slipping. i kept loosening the clutch nut untill it was a hair above the threads. Is that possible? Even with the little bit of tension on the spring, the clutch seemed to engage late and stuttered from a standstill. Any suggestions? Could it be the counter weights?
Thanks for all the help!!
The only issue i had was with the clutch. I first started with the red clutch shoe , red counter weights and black 1.8 spring at .5mm spring tension (distance between the top of the threads to the top of the clutch nut.It slipped so much that the clutch shoe melted. I switched to the stock black shoe, stayed with red counter weights and yellow spring and it was better however it kept slipping. i kept loosening the clutch nut untill it was a hair above the threads. Is that possible? Even with the little bit of tension on the spring, the clutch seemed to engage late and stuttered from a standstill. Any suggestions? Could it be the counter weights?
Thanks for all the help!!
07-23-2007, 01:30 PM
#7747
Perez if the clutch is slipping then back of the preload !!!
The preload measurement is just for general info.
I start with a clutch that engages early and when setting up the car gradually increase tension a 1/4 to half turn till it slips and then back off a 1/4 to half.
The red shoes also slip more than the black shoes.For the red shoes to work properly they have to be run for a few laps to warm up before starting to work properly.
Preference is still black shoes though.
I also wouldnt advise a clutch gap larger than .5mm as it also agrevates wear of the clutch shoe.
The preload measurement is just for general info.
I start with a clutch that engages early and when setting up the car gradually increase tension a 1/4 to half turn till it slips and then back off a 1/4 to half.
The red shoes also slip more than the black shoes.For the red shoes to work properly they have to be run for a few laps to warm up before starting to work properly.
Preference is still black shoes though.
I also wouldnt advise a clutch gap larger than .5mm as it also agrevates wear of the clutch shoe.
07-23-2007, 02:48 PM
#7748
You guys are not alone in this experience. It happened to me with a new kit last year. Most of the time the 2speed worked but then there were a few occassions where when you rev the engine, the 2speed will not engage. You have to back off then rev again. I think the cam was just machined too smooth or too small. So I took a rough sand paper and rubbed it against the cam 8-10 times. I did not replace the one-way bearing. The problem went away. Hope it works for you too.
07-23-2007, 03:06 PM
#7749
You guys are not alone in this experience. It happened to me with a new kit last year. Most of the time the 2speed worked but then there were a few occassions where when you rev the engine, the 2speed will not engage. You have to back off then rev again. I think the cam was just machined too smooth or too small. So I took a rough sand paper and rubbed it against the cam 8-10 times. I did not replace the one-way bearing. The problem went away. Hope it works for you too.
P800?
07-23-2007, 03:37 PM
#7750
Perez if the clutch is slipping then back of the preload !!!
The preload measurement is just for general info.
I start with a clutch that engages early and when setting up the car gradually increase tension a 1/4 to half turn till it slips and then back off a 1/4 to half.
The red shoes also slip more than the black shoes.For the red shoes to work properly they have to be run for a few laps to warm up before starting to work properly.
Preference is still black shoes though.
I also wouldnt advise a clutch gap larger than .5mm as it also agrevates wear of the clutch shoe.
The preload measurement is just for general info.
I start with a clutch that engages early and when setting up the car gradually increase tension a 1/4 to half turn till it slips and then back off a 1/4 to half.
The red shoes also slip more than the black shoes.For the red shoes to work properly they have to be run for a few laps to warm up before starting to work properly.
Preference is still black shoes though.
I also wouldnt advise a clutch gap larger than .5mm as it also agrevates wear of the clutch shoe.
... which weights do you use razzor?
07-23-2007, 05:23 PM
#7751
Car was awsome! It was so stable through the chicanes.
The only issue i had was with the clutch. I first started with the red clutch shoe , red counter weights and black 1.8 spring at .5mm spring tension (distance between the top of the threads to the top of the clutch nut.It slipped so much that the clutch shoe melted. I switched to the stock black shoe, stayed with red counter weights and yellow spring and it was better however it kept slipping. i kept loosening the clutch nut untill it was a hair above the threads. Is that possible? Even with the little bit of tension on the spring, the clutch seemed to engage late and stuttered from a standstill. Any suggestions? Could it be the counter weights?
Thanks for all the help!!
The only issue i had was with the clutch. I first started with the red clutch shoe , red counter weights and black 1.8 spring at .5mm spring tension (distance between the top of the threads to the top of the clutch nut.It slipped so much that the clutch shoe melted. I switched to the stock black shoe, stayed with red counter weights and yellow spring and it was better however it kept slipping. i kept loosening the clutch nut untill it was a hair above the threads. Is that possible? Even with the little bit of tension on the spring, the clutch seemed to engage late and stuttered from a standstill. Any suggestions? Could it be the counter weights?
Thanks for all the help!!
The clutch gap is very important and reading your post I suppose you used a very large gap........
try this setup (incredible for Novarossi Plus):
Stock clutch with all steel weights in flyweights......
TM BLACK spring at 0.80mm of preload
0.60mm gap.........
according to the grip of your track, play ONLY with spring tension.........
0.60mm gap is the best setting I found, if you try smaller the clutch bogs down..........and a larger gap hurts the thrust bearing and can make the clutchbell touch the 2nd spur gear.......
07-23-2007, 07:19 PM
#7752
I am Stumped. I replaced the 2speed one way and the 2 speed shoe cam. I cleaned out the one way with alcohol twice. and still I get a slipping 2 speed. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not getting vibration in the 2speed shaft at high speed that causes it to let go??? I'm open to any other suggestions as to what might cause this. Again I can find no binding in the drive train at all.
theres a fine line on the amount of oil you replace ...
one drop of oil is all you need ..
i use one way oil and i still think theres no such thing but one drop works fine
any more than one drop it slips ...
It will make someone a great car. Email me for pics. Troy
07-23-2007, 11:08 PM
#7754
black shoe and fly weights
single weight in fly weights
.5mm clutch gap with .1mm endplay
JP super hard clutch spring or TM 1.8mm black spring.
preload i start at just below flush and adjust from there on the track
I would recoomend the Mugen super hard clutch spring or teh JP one they are more consistent.
hope it helps.
07-23-2007, 11:24 PM
#7755
Congrats to Muppet for winning the 6th round of the UK championship
A real asset to the G4S guys.
Looks like he is heading for another championship win with 2 rounds left.
Closest challenger is young Kyle Branson followed by Steve Brown, both are Serpent drivers.
Muppet/Daz has TQ'd all rounds except the last round 6.
He has 2 wins, 2 2nds, 1 4th and a 8th
To those who dont know muppet/Daz has been uk Champ with the G4 from 2004 in the rubber tyre class and 2005/2006 in 200mm foam tyre class and is also the no2 from last years Euro champs.
Good going Muppet keep it up
A real asset to the G4S guys.
Looks like he is heading for another championship win with 2 rounds left.
Closest challenger is young Kyle Branson followed by Steve Brown, both are Serpent drivers.
Muppet/Daz has TQ'd all rounds except the last round 6.
He has 2 wins, 2 2nds, 1 4th and a 8th
To those who dont know muppet/Daz has been uk Champ with the G4 from 2004 in the rubber tyre class and 2005/2006 in 200mm foam tyre class and is also the no2 from last years Euro champs.
Good going Muppet keep it up