Nick411

A spring with a smaller diameter wire and less coils is more progressive than a thicker wire and more coils due to simple physics.

The farther something is bent (the wire in this case) the more force it takes to continue bending it. So the farther the spring is compressed the firmer it gets. And because the spring with the smaller wire and less coils there for the coils are spaced out farther from each other, the farther the wire has to be bent to compress the same amount as the spring with the thicker wire and more coils.

To prove this put the two springs on a scale and compress them with your finger, you will see that the spring with the smaller wire needs a greater pressure increase as it is compressed as compared to the spring with the larger wire.

dishsoap

iTrader: (8)

Ok throwing this out here.

Any current Mugen drivers that came from x-ray or Mugen went to x-ray and now back to Mugen.

Its a loaded question but I am weighing some options. Wanting to get some drivers feedback on pros and cons.

Thanks guys

-WHEELMAN-

iTrader: (267)

I've known some guys that have come from X-Ray and are pleased with the Mugen I will try to catch them this weekend and pick there brains. It might be a good idea to go to the X-Ray thread and ask who came from Mugen although it will be a shy bias to X-Ray everyone always talks a tad higher about what is in there pit. Especially if it's a Slowsy, Aslowciated or Kyoslow Just kidding but yes it will be a little bias of info. All the top names have great chassis with a good setup. Seems as if Durango has been struggling but thats something to discuss elsewhere.

AZRC4Me

iTrader: (8)

I am not buying that these new silver springs are progressive. This link shows a great simple picture between a straight wound spring (the mugen springs, both silver and black), a dual rate spring, and a progressive spring.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Suspension.html

Basically, in order to have a progressive spring, the coils need to be spaced out differently along the length of the spring. If you look at the silver springs, the coils are spaced evenly over the length of the spring - straight wound. The wire diameter of the silver springs is smaller, and the spring rates are nearly identical to the black springs except for a few N/m here and there. Without getting into lengthy equations to explain spring physics, changing the wire diameter changes the frequency of the spring. All things being equal, changing to a smaller diameter spring wire will raise the natural frequency of the spring, giving the spring more of an operating window before it hits the natural frequency which would cause spring surge (undesirable condition). It's a concept they've used for years in valve springs in cars. This of course assumes Mugen is using the same material to make both the 1.5mm dia and 1.6mm dia spring wires.

Long story short, these springs will provide more compliance to the platform. I've run them with and without the longer chassis and I see no need to ever go back to the black springs now, no matter what chassis you run. They're dialed, much more stable. I'll post up a video my pitman shot of my car last weekend when I get a chance, maybe tomorrow.

johnny t

iTrader: (10)

I owned both and The X-ray requires a very precise driver but steers nicely. The mugen will tolerate you if your sloppy, guess that makes up for it's goofy steering. if you run on smooth tracks X-ray wins. If you run in any rough the mugen wins. Was not really impressed with X-ray "quality" hudy spring steel has got nothing on the mugen stuff.

johnny t

iTrader: (10)

You are right. I would say these new springs are more "slopey". They just ramp up more when compressed. Still in a linear fashion for sure.


I would also think any new found frequencies the new springs have in mind would be overuled by the dampers. I would be curious on what effect the new springs have on shock rebound speeds though.

Azrc, Noticed the native rate of the new rears are much higher than the old springs. Do they feel stiffer when on the car?

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

Cool - I'll stay tuned. I need a few clutches too

thanks!
Paul

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

Nick

thanks for taking a shot at it.

Let me see if I get this straight. Assume same "Static" stiffness K (N/cm) for both springs, the older one, the newer one.

if you compress them the same "distance", the older one will output a lesser force than the newer one? And the more you compress them, the bigger the delta will become, and this not just linearly (maybe quadratically or sthing at least higher than power_1)?

So basically, same as leaning shocks in with the older springs? (and assuming you used a stiffer spring as you leaned them in obviously?)

thanks!

Paul
Paul

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

Still trying to scan through the inputs

does the above matter when the thing is crazily damped with 600 oil with 5 tiny 1.Xmm holes and turbulent flow most of the time but when the car "rolls" naturally in smooth turns (are there such things in offroad anyway )? I mean, if you consider all the slop/noise in the "car" system, I would think it all boils down to first-order effects, ie "basic" spring stiffness K - maybe a bit on progressivity too and even then...

I am somewhat willing to buy into the new chassis thing (if only because my older one is worn out anyway, so I need a replacement) but to me the new spring set just looks like a fancy way to make the customer spend more cash as there are no real "news" on the car when all the competition cranks out one kit or update a year. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a need for a new car anyway (heck I've had my butt whooped by MBX5's last year!) but Mugen has to play this part of the game like the others... And in the absence of an MBX6R or Prospec, that's how they play it I would think...

Paul

Nick411

In simple terms, yes you got it.

shinnbad12

iTrader: (1)

If ALL of you guys would spend as much time trying the new springs ON THE TRACK as you have spent trying to understand the physics of a spring on a bench, you would have all realized by now that the new springs just flat out WORK AWSOME

If you all read back to when the springs first came out, you will find a post from DONROD that stated,,,,, New springs give you

Better jumping and re action
You can run a lower ride height and still jump and handle well
The stiffer ones 7.0,7.5 work really good on the truggy less roll in the rear and great jumping.

He was absolutely correct, I just put a truggy together this weekend and the new springs made it jump like a buggy, stayed flatter through the corners,and didnt sacrafice traction at all.

IMO, this is the best tuning aid that mugen has come up with

GOOD JOB Dillan, this weekend at the MUD challenge, LOL
Scott

Jeppi

Hi everybody,

Would someone know what setup was Dylan Rodriguez running at the Nitro this week end?

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

I wish but every track here is more mud than dirt for at least another 4 weeks... Additionnally, as this is my hard-earned dough we're talking about here, I'd like to make sure I'm spending it smartly... Otherwise if I had to believe every claim I read on internet forums I'd soon be running a decked-out $2000 T-Maxx™... or worst, a BMI TC3


Did you compare the SAME car with both sets of shocks? Otherwise you might just be feeling the good ole "fresh built car" syndrom...


A bit of empiricism never hurts... but in a controlled fashion, otherwise you're an easy prey for all greedy manufacturers (HPI, Xray, Kyosho anyone?). Typically Mugen isn't one of them, but as I said, no new kit for 2.5yrs now doesn't generate much interest in-market... gotta find a solution

Paul

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

I'm a simple man yannow

thanks

Paul

MadRussian

iTrader: (3)

We are doing International shipping at RaceMugen.com now.
International shoppers just select money order/check, and store pickup, and we will e-mail you with a total including International shipping, hen you can Paypal us, or call our shop with a credit cards #.