The Drift Thread
05-11-2006, 01:05 PM
#571
Tech Initiate
IHMO, all cars for rc drifting on ABS are equal for the most part.
once you get rubber drift tires or rubber/ringed tires, then the chassis and susp becomes more important because when you hit the rubber part, your camber angles make a difference and as the suspension now compresses as grip is applied. then castor plays a part in keeping a consistent camber angle while countersteering or else you will hit more rubber than drift ring or vice versa when you drift and that is when the car will seem weird and inconsistent. then you talk about ackerman steering issues and trying to combine that with your castor that affects camber while countersteering. there is much more when the springs compress and then camber is screwed with again blah blah and much more.
tuning on a car with full abs tires is not as critical, BUT still would make a difference. it is just very hard to tune and then instantly see the results like on rubber tires. if you started off with a car at 0 camber all around and then drifted, as soon as you turn the steering wheel, your setup will determine how much camber happens to each front wheel and whether the now sideways tilting abs is going to grip better or worse than the flat face of the abs hitting the ground. the hard part is when you adjust the camber of the car on abs, you have to run the car till the abs takes the camber change and flatten out again. then you can actually test the results and improvements.
so for most of us, the chassis doesn't seem to matter much.
gearing is more important as you want to have just enough power to spin the tires through the turn and hold the entire track, but anymore and you are just frying the tires. thus, the irony of drifting......trying to drift while trying to get grip to keep or pull ahead of one another.
so with all the crap i just said about camber changes and all, what i am trying to determine is if drifting with zero countersteer and on power is faster than drifting with counter on power. keeping in mind the full face of the abs will be touching the ground with zero counter vs countering and having the rears flat but the front on its edges? for some reason the countering on edges does work a little better, but is that because you are steering with where your momentum is trying to go with counter? i was a management major, not a physics or engineer major, so i don't know.
is having a wider abs tire better than standard size? we got a couple guys who made half width tires and rims and do pretty good with them too. are they thinking of a smaller footprint making more grip?
with that being said. if yokomo hooks me up. they got the best car for drifting.
b
ps. i just don't like the kingpin falling out on the yoks drift car.
pps.
once you get rubber drift tires or rubber/ringed tires, then the chassis and susp becomes more important because when you hit the rubber part, your camber angles make a difference and as the suspension now compresses as grip is applied. then castor plays a part in keeping a consistent camber angle while countersteering or else you will hit more rubber than drift ring or vice versa when you drift and that is when the car will seem weird and inconsistent. then you talk about ackerman steering issues and trying to combine that with your castor that affects camber while countersteering. there is much more when the springs compress and then camber is screwed with again blah blah and much more.
tuning on a car with full abs tires is not as critical, BUT still would make a difference. it is just very hard to tune and then instantly see the results like on rubber tires. if you started off with a car at 0 camber all around and then drifted, as soon as you turn the steering wheel, your setup will determine how much camber happens to each front wheel and whether the now sideways tilting abs is going to grip better or worse than the flat face of the abs hitting the ground. the hard part is when you adjust the camber of the car on abs, you have to run the car till the abs takes the camber change and flatten out again. then you can actually test the results and improvements.
so for most of us, the chassis doesn't seem to matter much.
gearing is more important as you want to have just enough power to spin the tires through the turn and hold the entire track, but anymore and you are just frying the tires. thus, the irony of drifting......trying to drift while trying to get grip to keep or pull ahead of one another.
so with all the crap i just said about camber changes and all, what i am trying to determine is if drifting with zero countersteer and on power is faster than drifting with counter on power. keeping in mind the full face of the abs will be touching the ground with zero counter vs countering and having the rears flat but the front on its edges? for some reason the countering on edges does work a little better, but is that because you are steering with where your momentum is trying to go with counter? i was a management major, not a physics or engineer major, so i don't know.
is having a wider abs tire better than standard size? we got a couple guys who made half width tires and rims and do pretty good with them too. are they thinking of a smaller footprint making more grip?
with that being said. if yokomo hooks me up. they got the best car for drifting.
bps. i just don't like the kingpin falling out on the yoks drift car.
pps.
Originally Posted by Aries326
You've been drifting alot and seem to have alot of experience with different chassis. What's your take on Yokomos being the best for drifting?
I sold an SSG Stage 3 Upgrade to a guy in South Africa (Odyssey) and he says that the drifts on the SSG are waaaay better and more predictable than the DP or even the TT-01. Alot of those guys in SA now want to switch over to the SSG.
But then there are those Yokomo haters that say TT-01s are all you really need. It might be all you really need, but are they that good once you get the right setup?
Drifting any of those high end chassis is pretty extreme. I've got an SSG myself but I bought it used and beat up. I can't get myself to beat up something as nice as a brand new Tamiya 414xx, SSG, BD, Pro4, etc...
I sold an SSG Stage 3 Upgrade to a guy in South Africa (Odyssey) and he says that the drifts on the SSG are waaaay better and more predictable than the DP or even the TT-01. Alot of those guys in SA now want to switch over to the SSG.
But then there are those Yokomo haters that say TT-01s are all you really need. It might be all you really need, but are they that good once you get the right setup?
Drifting any of those high end chassis is pretty extreme. I've got an SSG myself but I bought it used and beat up. I can't get myself to beat up something as nice as a brand new Tamiya 414xx, SSG, BD, Pro4, etc...
05-11-2006, 01:12 PM
#572
Tech Initiate
aries. actually to make it easy to see if one car is truly setup and or possible a better chassis to begin with is to get a worn set of abs that is gripping good try it out ans see how it is, then take those rims/tires off and put it on the car to compare with, run it a little to get the abs worn in to the possibly different camber and then test it out. if i put on my worn in tires on any of my cars, i say they are all awesome, but once i put semi newish ones on, the car sucks.
for cars with abs, the degree to how much the abs is worn is the most important. that before car brand.
b
ps. we are waiting for the day tires are made of a consistent hard plastic or very hard urethane. that would be good. the rubber tires just have too much grip right now and look like gas cars on 40's going ballistic. maybe if the rubber were mixed with more slippery blends or polymers?
for cars with abs, the degree to how much the abs is worn is the most important. that before car brand.
b
ps. we are waiting for the day tires are made of a consistent hard plastic or very hard urethane. that would be good. the rubber tires just have too much grip right now and look like gas cars on 40's going ballistic. maybe if the rubber were mixed with more slippery blends or polymers?
05-11-2006, 01:56 PM
#573
Tech Rookie
about how much should you be paying for an rtr tc4 brand new?
05-11-2006, 02:43 PM
#574
I've never factored in new or used ABS when testing out my chassis. I've got some older sets of ABS I'll have to test out. Is it because the old ABS is worn out and provides more traction or is it because the ABS is a different plastic when it get closer to the core?
Anyway, have you guys used PE pipes? The guys is South Africa swear by PE pipes as being the BEST.
Hmm, your long post has given me some food for thought. I'll have to do some extensive testing this weekend on the tennis courts. The surface is flat and clean so that should take away some of the variables like sloped surface, rocks, bumpy surface.
I've got problems too with kingpins falling out of the TC3. I haven't had that happen yet with my Yoke. Then again, I haven't drifted it as much either. By the end of the month, one of these have to go.
Anyway, have you guys used PE pipes? The guys is South Africa swear by PE pipes as being the BEST.
Hmm, your long post has given me some food for thought. I'll have to do some extensive testing this weekend on the tennis courts. The surface is flat and clean so that should take away some of the variables like sloped surface, rocks, bumpy surface.
I've got problems too with kingpins falling out of the TC3. I haven't had that happen yet with my Yoke. Then again, I haven't drifted it as much either. By the end of the month, one of these have to go.
Originally Posted by bdrift
aries. actually to make it easy to see if one car is truly setup and or possible a better chassis to begin with is to get a worn set of abs that is gripping good try it out ans see how it is, then take those rims/tires off and put it on the car to compare with, run it a little to get the abs worn in to the possibly different camber and then test it out. if i put on my worn in tires on any of my cars, i say they are all awesome, but once i put semi newish ones on, the car sucks.
for cars with abs, the degree to how much the abs is worn is the most important. that before car brand.
b
ps. we are waiting for the day tires are made of a consistent hard plastic or very hard urethane. that would be good. the rubber tires just have too much grip right now and look like gas cars on 40's going ballistic. maybe if the rubber were mixed with more slippery blends or polymers?
for cars with abs, the degree to how much the abs is worn is the most important. that before car brand.
b
ps. we are waiting for the day tires are made of a consistent hard plastic or very hard urethane. that would be good. the rubber tires just have too much grip right now and look like gas cars on 40's going ballistic. maybe if the rubber were mixed with more slippery blends or polymers?
05-11-2006, 02:44 PM
#575
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by Projekt
about how much should you be paying for an rtr tc4 brand new?
05-11-2006, 03:50 PM
#576
Tech Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bdrift
IHMO, all cars for rc drifting on ABS are equal for the most part.
once you get rubber drift tires or rubber/ringed tires, then the chassis and susp becomes more important because when you hit the rubber part, your camber angles make a difference and as the suspension now compresses as grip is applied. then castor plays a part in keeping a consistent camber angle while countersteering or else you will hit more rubber than drift ring or vice versa when you drift and that is when the car will seem weird and inconsistent. then you talk about ackerman steering issues and trying to combine that with your castor that affects camber while countersteering. there is much more when the springs compress and then camber is screwed with again blah blah and much more.
tuning on a car with full abs tires is not as critical, BUT still would make a difference. it is just very hard to tune and then instantly see the results like on rubber tires. if you started off with a car at 0 camber all around and then drifted, as soon as you turn the steering wheel, your setup will determine how much camber happens to each front wheel and whether the now sideways tilting abs is going to grip better or worse than the flat face of the abs hitting the ground. the hard part is when you adjust the camber of the car on abs, you have to run the car till the abs takes the camber change and flatten out again. then you can actually test the results and improvements.
so for most of us, the chassis doesn't seem to matter much.
gearing is more important as you want to have just enough power to spin the tires through the turn and hold the entire track, but anymore and you are just frying the tires. thus, the irony of drifting......trying to drift while trying to get grip to keep or pull ahead of one another.
so with all the crap i just said about camber changes and all, what i am trying to determine is if drifting with zero countersteer and on power is faster than drifting with counter on power. keeping in mind the full face of the abs will be touching the ground with zero counter vs countering and having the rears flat but the front on its edges? for some reason the countering on edges does work a little better, but is that because you are steering with where your momentum is trying to go with counter? i was a management major, not a physics or engineer major, so i don't know.
is having a wider abs tire better than standard size? we got a couple guys who made half width tires and rims and do pretty good with them too. are they thinking of a smaller footprint making more grip?
with that being said. if yokomo hooks me up. they got the best car for drifting. b
ps. i just don't like the kingpin falling out on the yoks drift car.
pps.
once you get rubber drift tires or rubber/ringed tires, then the chassis and susp becomes more important because when you hit the rubber part, your camber angles make a difference and as the suspension now compresses as grip is applied. then castor plays a part in keeping a consistent camber angle while countersteering or else you will hit more rubber than drift ring or vice versa when you drift and that is when the car will seem weird and inconsistent. then you talk about ackerman steering issues and trying to combine that with your castor that affects camber while countersteering. there is much more when the springs compress and then camber is screwed with again blah blah and much more.
tuning on a car with full abs tires is not as critical, BUT still would make a difference. it is just very hard to tune and then instantly see the results like on rubber tires. if you started off with a car at 0 camber all around and then drifted, as soon as you turn the steering wheel, your setup will determine how much camber happens to each front wheel and whether the now sideways tilting abs is going to grip better or worse than the flat face of the abs hitting the ground. the hard part is when you adjust the camber of the car on abs, you have to run the car till the abs takes the camber change and flatten out again. then you can actually test the results and improvements.
so for most of us, the chassis doesn't seem to matter much.
gearing is more important as you want to have just enough power to spin the tires through the turn and hold the entire track, but anymore and you are just frying the tires. thus, the irony of drifting......trying to drift while trying to get grip to keep or pull ahead of one another.
so with all the crap i just said about camber changes and all, what i am trying to determine is if drifting with zero countersteer and on power is faster than drifting with counter on power. keeping in mind the full face of the abs will be touching the ground with zero counter vs countering and having the rears flat but the front on its edges? for some reason the countering on edges does work a little better, but is that because you are steering with where your momentum is trying to go with counter? i was a management major, not a physics or engineer major, so i don't know.
is having a wider abs tire better than standard size? we got a couple guys who made half width tires and rims and do pretty good with them too. are they thinking of a smaller footprint making more grip?
with that being said. if yokomo hooks me up. they got the best car for drifting.
bps. i just don't like the kingpin falling out on the yoks drift car.
pps.
i just would like to answer those questions as why does it work better with caster (edges when counter steer) if you look at it may take a look of it being edges stabbinng the ground...get what i am saying...with that, its like the tire is actually griping more but that i think is not possible because of the smaller contact patch, but when it is "edged" the counter steer will actually like hook on to the floor because of the degree of the side wall. im not sure if i clrealy stated that but i hope you get what im trying to say
for the question about zero counter steer facing counter steer with both power on
that question can not be possibly answered with the exact answer youll be looking for...thats because with counter steer vs no counter steer it depend on the gruond (downhill, uphill, flat, bumpy), the angle in wich the car is capable of, and the caster. as since we are all playing with 4wd rc drift cars the counter steer or minimal counter steer would be fastest during tight or medium hairpins and regular corners with about 2 degrees of caster
the tire width foot print question
the larger surface area or contact patch would always create more traction during cornering and going through staights
i hope i answered those questions correctly
as for the concept of having worn out drift tires such as abs or pvc being better
if you think about it and look at the side wall of pvc...the tire cant possibly have two different types of material because its not slightliest visible on the side wall
that concept is only better because of the shape and wieght of the tires itself. if you noticed when makeing your drift wheels its not perfectly round and exact thinkness through out the tire...when worn out it becomes thinner causing it to be for flex able and moveable...becasue of wearing down during all the wheel spin while drifting it becomes more equal and lighter thats what make its better
its kinda like breaking in the tires to get it the shape that needs to be used
Last edited by anthony390; 05-11-2006 at 05:59 PM.
05-11-2006, 05:33 PM
#577
Tech Initiate
yeah, the abs pipes are different in the center. the inner part is more porous. looks like it was more bubbly during the process. that is the best part when abs is fast, from that point til the things are almost wafer thin. at the innermost part, it looks solid like the outermost part(solid), but it actually is real good too.
but you definitely cannot compare cars on different tires(ABS). tennis courts are good because they help wear in the tires fast, BUT might give you false results when it comes time to tune because of the high grip surface.
never tried the PE stuff but is it black or will you have to dye it. not as easy to get at home depot is it
b
ps: a good way to see how a car will (could) perform even before it runs is try puching it sideways and take note of the resistance of the tires from sliding. there is kind of a hollow sound too and that is consistent through soft rims and hard rims.
but you definitely cannot compare cars on different tires(ABS). tennis courts are good because they help wear in the tires fast, BUT might give you false results when it comes time to tune because of the high grip surface.
never tried the PE stuff but is it black or will you have to dye it. not as easy to get at home depot is it
b
ps: a good way to see how a car will (could) perform even before it runs is try puching it sideways and take note of the resistance of the tires from sliding. there is kind of a hollow sound too and that is consistent through soft rims and hard rims.
05-11-2006, 09:02 PM
#578
I heard PE is hard to get. You usually find it used for irrigation purposes. I guess that's why the South Africa guys use it instead of ABS. I'm in the Northeast so we don't have problems with rain or water. The only thing I've been able to find around here are PVC pipes - no ABS. I've been forced to buy ABS off of eBay. Although, a nice guy from Hawaii on rcdori recently offered to send me some ABS at cost. Just pay for the ABS plus S&H.
You guys from Hawaii are so laid back and friendly. One of my best buddies is from Hawaii and that guy could party like you would not believe. Even when I was broke, he'd take me out drinking and hit up the girly bars in Manila. What a guy! Dude, so many memories... lol...
Anyway...
I noticed on my SSG that it doesn't "snap" back as quickly on transitions. It's kinda sluggish. What's the deal? Loosen the front diff or harden the springs in the back?
How do you guys like to approach tuning? More with the diffs or more with the suspension?
What's your take on the different diff options? Spool, front one-ways. etc...
You guys from Hawaii are so laid back and friendly. One of my best buddies is from Hawaii and that guy could party like you would not believe. Even when I was broke, he'd take me out drinking and hit up the girly bars in Manila. What a guy! Dude, so many memories... lol...
Anyway...
I noticed on my SSG that it doesn't "snap" back as quickly on transitions. It's kinda sluggish. What's the deal? Loosen the front diff or harden the springs in the back?
How do you guys like to approach tuning? More with the diffs or more with the suspension?
What's your take on the different diff options? Spool, front one-ways. etc...
Originally Posted by bdrift
yeah, the abs pipes are different in the center. the inner part is more porous. looks like it was more bubbly during the process. that is the best part when abs is fast, from that point til the things are almost wafer thin. at the innermost part, it looks solid like the outermost part(solid), but it actually is real good too.
but you definitely cannot compare cars on different tires(ABS). tennis courts are good because they help wear in the tires fast, BUT might give you false results when it comes time to tune because of the high grip surface.
never tried the PE stuff but is it black or will you have to dye it. not as easy to get at home depot is it
b
ps: a good way to see how a car will (could) perform even before it runs is try puching it sideways and take note of the resistance of the tires from sliding. there is kind of a hollow sound too and that is consistent through soft rims and hard rims.
but you definitely cannot compare cars on different tires(ABS). tennis courts are good because they help wear in the tires fast, BUT might give you false results when it comes time to tune because of the high grip surface.
never tried the PE stuff but is it black or will you have to dye it. not as easy to get at home depot is it
b
ps: a good way to see how a car will (could) perform even before it runs is try puching it sideways and take note of the resistance of the tires from sliding. there is kind of a hollow sound too and that is consistent through soft rims and hard rims.
05-12-2006, 04:59 AM
#579
im gone for 3 days, and now its like a million new people have joined, and like a trillion new posts,
oh anyone drift in there hall way with rubbers and a herd wood floor?
oh anyone drift in there hall way with rubbers and a herd wood floor?
05-12-2006, 05:53 AM
#580
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by Projekt
about how much should you be paying for an rtr tc4 brand new?
They might not have it listed on the web but call them up.
They sell for 214.95 free shipping.
05-12-2006, 06:01 AM
#581
Tech Initiate
05-12-2006, 10:36 AM
#582
Originally Posted by CaptEvo
I bought drift tires from www.drift-tires.com
Pretty pricey at $5 a set - especially since the edges aren't rounded. I got mine from here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/12-R-C-DRIFTING-...QQcmdZViewItem
A few weeks ago, he had a 10 day special where S&H was free. I wonder who the guy is running the www.drift-tires.com website? I've never run across it until now and I've never seen it advertised on any of the other drifting websites.
Anyway, I did a quick search on google for some PE pipes. Here's a link if anyone is interested in buying direct from the manufacturer:
http://www.thomasnet.com/products/po...8545401-1.html
05-12-2006, 11:05 AM
#583
Originally Posted by Aries326
Pretty pricey at $5 a set - especially since the edges aren't rounded. I got mine from here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/12-R-C-DRIFTING-...QQcmdZViewItem
A few weeks ago, he had a 10 day special where S&H was free. I wonder who the guy is running the www.drift-tires.com website? I've never run across it until now and I've never seen it advertised on any of the other drifting websites.
Anyway, I did a quick search on google for some PE pipes. Here's a link if anyone is interested in buying direct from the manufacturer:
http://www.thomasnet.com/products/po...8545401-1.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/12-R-C-DRIFTING-...QQcmdZViewItem
A few weeks ago, he had a 10 day special where S&H was free. I wonder who the guy is running the www.drift-tires.com website? I've never run across it until now and I've never seen it advertised on any of the other drifting websites.
Anyway, I did a quick search on google for some PE pipes. Here's a link if anyone is interested in buying direct from the manufacturer:
http://www.thomasnet.com/products/po...8545401-1.html
i bought from this guy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT
05-12-2006, 02:47 PM
#584
Tech Initiate
yeah, that is what i though about pe whe i heard about it a while back.
supposed to be softer almost rubbery.
are you serious? overhere, they sell them in 2 foot lengths for 4 bucks and 10ft for 5.99 it was on sale. otherwise it is around 8 bucks. but you gotta watch how "airy" the center is. the more airy the better.
i think the ebay guys are hurting rc drifting. if they at least machined them down to the good part and then sold them, then it would be great. but as they are new, and they tout them as "drift" tires, when people first put them on they will slip and slide and suck bad for at least a pack or 2. that will turn off people like the guy who responded on the tc4 thread that said the cars just slide and he doesn't like it.
b
supposed to be softer almost rubbery.
are you serious? overhere, they sell them in 2 foot lengths for 4 bucks and 10ft for 5.99 it was on sale. otherwise it is around 8 bucks. but you gotta watch how "airy" the center is. the more airy the better.
i think the ebay guys are hurting rc drifting. if they at least machined them down to the good part and then sold them, then it would be great. but as they are new, and they tout them as "drift" tires, when people first put them on they will slip and slide and suck bad for at least a pack or 2. that will turn off people like the guy who responded on the tc4 thread that said the cars just slide and he doesn't like it.
b
Originally Posted by Aries326
I heard PE is hard to get. You usually find it used for irrigation purposes. I guess that's why the South Africa guys use it instead of ABS. I'm in the Northeast so we don't have problems with rain or water. The only thing I've been able to find around here are PVC pipes - no ABS. I've been forced to buy ABS off of eBay. Although, a nice guy from Hawaii on rcdori recently offered to send me some ABS at cost. Just pay for the ABS plus S&H.
You guys from Hawaii are so laid back and friendly. One of my best buddies is from Hawaii and that guy could party like you would not believe. Even when I was broke, he'd take me out drinking and hit up the girly bars in Manila. What a guy! Dude, so many memories... lol...
Anyway...
I noticed on my SSG that it doesn't "snap" back as quickly on transitions. It's kinda sluggish. What's the deal? Loosen the front diff or harden the springs in the back?
How do you guys like to approach tuning? More with the diffs or more with the suspension?
What's your take on the different diff options? Spool, front one-ways. etc...
You guys from Hawaii are so laid back and friendly. One of my best buddies is from Hawaii and that guy could party like you would not believe. Even when I was broke, he'd take me out drinking and hit up the girly bars in Manila. What a guy! Dude, so many memories... lol...
Anyway...
I noticed on my SSG that it doesn't "snap" back as quickly on transitions. It's kinda sluggish. What's the deal? Loosen the front diff or harden the springs in the back?
How do you guys like to approach tuning? More with the diffs or more with the suspension?
What's your take on the different diff options? Spool, front one-ways. etc...
05-12-2006, 03:10 PM
#585
Tech Fanatic
Thread Starter
i make my tires
i dont really want to buy drift tires that are home made by someone else
i think if i buy them, they might be different width then the wheel i have because of all the different wheel out there like kawadas
well i was thinking of doing something with my tires while making them
also what happens when you heat up the pvc/ abs and then let it cool
itll become harder when it cools down right?
i dont really want to buy drift tires that are home made by someone else
i think if i buy them, they might be different width then the wheel i have because of all the different wheel out there like kawadas
well i was thinking of doing something with my tires while making them
also what happens when you heat up the pvc/ abs and then let it cool
itll become harder when it cools down right?