VBC new 1/10 touring car, Wildfire.
11-28-2012, 12:10 PM
#766
I have an interesting issue and hope a few of you can give me a few ideas on what to check. I raced this last saturday and had two good (bad 
) crashes. Both times I clipped the outside PVC pipe joint (where the PVC pipe slips together) and it ripped an arm off both times. First time it was the front arm. Second time it was the rear arm. I'm not surprised it broke an arm at all with how fast I was going when I clipped it. Thats not the issue. The issue is after fixing the second one (rear arm) I had it on the setup station and was checking everything. Decided to toss the toe gauge on the rear and noticed that the left was at 2 degrees in, and the right side was at 4 degrees in. I have the box toe blocks 3.0 in the rear and 0in the front. So I should have 3.0 in on both sides. I did loosen the screws holding the toe blocks and got it to 2.5L and 3.5R I haven't had time to mess with it since but will have time this coming weekend.
I did replace the hinge pin as it was slightly bent. It seemed to bind as I rotated it in the new arm at a certain spot. Could I have bent the toe blocks?
) crashes. Both times I clipped the outside PVC pipe joint (where the PVC pipe slips together) and it ripped an arm off both times. First time it was the front arm. Second time it was the rear arm. I'm not surprised it broke an arm at all with how fast I was going when I clipped it. Thats not the issue. The issue is after fixing the second one (rear arm) I had it on the setup station and was checking everything. Decided to toss the toe gauge on the rear and noticed that the left was at 2 degrees in, and the right side was at 4 degrees in. I have the box toe blocks 3.0 in the rear and 0in the front. So I should have 3.0 in on both sides. I did loosen the screws holding the toe blocks and got it to 2.5L and 3.5R I haven't had time to mess with it since but will have time this coming weekend. I did replace the hinge pin as it was slightly bent. It seemed to bind as I rotated it in the new arm at a certain spot. Could I have bent the toe blocks?
One thing you should check is the wheel hex. Me for example, out the box i had the same issues as you. I tried new block holder and still had a big difference. I took hexes from another car and BAM, perfect!
11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
#767
i had kinda been hoping that they were going to stick with that acid green and black look but once again ive been disappointed =/ guess ill stick with my plan and go back to a tc6.1
11-28-2012, 03:45 PM
#769
Hi Odin,
It seems like the front and rear blocks might not be aligned due to the left side being +1 degree and the right -1 (ie -2 and -4) degree relative to the expected -3 left and right. (Sounds like the LHS of the car was impacted). Failing that, I suppose its also worth checking that the hub and hub carrier are not also damaged. Not sure if you observed the toe while the wheel rotates? Curious to know what the answer is, please keep us posted.
It seems like the front and rear blocks might not be aligned due to the left side being +1 degree and the right -1 (ie -2 and -4) degree relative to the expected -3 left and right. (Sounds like the LHS of the car was impacted). Failing that, I suppose its also worth checking that the hub and hub carrier are not also damaged. Not sure if you observed the toe while the wheel rotates? Curious to know what the answer is, please keep us posted.
I will assume you checked toe after building the kit and it was correct?
One thing you should check is the wheel hex. Me for example, out the box i had the same issues as you. I tried new block holder and still had a big difference. I took hexes from another car and BAM, perfect!
One thing you should check is the wheel hex. Me for example, out the box i had the same issues as you. I tried new block holder and still had a big difference. I took hexes from another car and BAM, perfect!
All good suggestions guys. Thanks. I'll post up when I find the culprit.
11-28-2012, 03:47 PM
#770
Tech Rookie
Dave Johnson wins 17.5 TC at the US Indoor Champs in Cleveland.
Brian Wynn wins VTA.
Both using a VBC Wildfire.
Brian Wynn wins VTA.
Both using a VBC Wildfire.
12-12-2012, 08:21 PM
#773
Question for you guys...
Running my Wildfire on our small (70x30ft ish) carpet track. 17.5 Blinky. I'm having an issue that I can't seem to get resolved and not really certain what is causing it. We have a 180º sweeper off the straight, with about a 135º turn at the end of the sweeper. My car drives pretty well except that I feel like if I steer too hard, it will swap ends on me. I notice it most at the end of the sweeper above. On some of the other corners I feel like it is close to giving out the rear end, but never really does unless I screw up and give a little too much steering.
I wouldn't say it oversteers on power, mid corner or entry, but wouldn't say it pushes either. Just seems to happen when I get deep into steering.
I've tried softer rear springs, stiffer front springs. Tried all sway bars (front and rear), no sway bar (front and rear). Leaned the shocks all the way in on rear, all the way up in front, changed the wheel base to longer/shorter, changed the wheel base to move the chassis forward/backwards, swapped shocks left to right, rebuilt the shocks twice, rebuilt the diff and spool once (1000wt in diff), tried 3 sets of tires (2 sets of Sweep blues, 1 set of Jaco Blues, brand new, run-in, and old). I've tried no traction compound on front (pushes like crazy), none on rear or front, front only, half front etc etc.
The only thing I've changed recently was the front drive shafts (went to the double joints).
Any ideas?
Most everyone here is running 1000wt in the diff. Should I be running anything different? Medium grip carpet...
Thanks!
Seth
Track video, with current layout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Higo51ig
Running my Wildfire on our small (70x30ft ish) carpet track. 17.5 Blinky. I'm having an issue that I can't seem to get resolved and not really certain what is causing it. We have a 180º sweeper off the straight, with about a 135º turn at the end of the sweeper. My car drives pretty well except that I feel like if I steer too hard, it will swap ends on me. I notice it most at the end of the sweeper above. On some of the other corners I feel like it is close to giving out the rear end, but never really does unless I screw up and give a little too much steering.
I wouldn't say it oversteers on power, mid corner or entry, but wouldn't say it pushes either. Just seems to happen when I get deep into steering.
I've tried softer rear springs, stiffer front springs. Tried all sway bars (front and rear), no sway bar (front and rear). Leaned the shocks all the way in on rear, all the way up in front, changed the wheel base to longer/shorter, changed the wheel base to move the chassis forward/backwards, swapped shocks left to right, rebuilt the shocks twice, rebuilt the diff and spool once (1000wt in diff), tried 3 sets of tires (2 sets of Sweep blues, 1 set of Jaco Blues, brand new, run-in, and old). I've tried no traction compound on front (pushes like crazy), none on rear or front, front only, half front etc etc.
The only thing I've changed recently was the front drive shafts (went to the double joints).
Any ideas?
Most everyone here is running 1000wt in the diff. Should I be running anything different? Medium grip carpet...
Thanks!
Seth
Track video, with current layout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Higo51ig
12-12-2012, 08:33 PM
#775
Question for you guys...
Running my Wildfire on our small (70x30ft ish) carpet track. 17.5 Blinky. I'm having an issue that I can't seem to get resolved and not really certain what is causing it. We have a 180º sweeper off the straight, with about a 135º turn at the end of the sweeper. My car drives pretty well except that I feel like if I steer too hard, it will swap ends on me. I notice it most at the end of the sweeper above. On some of the other corners I feel like it is close to giving out the rear end, but never really does unless I screw up and give a little too much steering.
I wouldn't say it oversteers on power, mid corner or entry, but wouldn't say it pushes either. Just seems to happen when I get deep into steering.
I've tried softer rear springs, stiffer front springs. Tried all sway bars (front and rear), no sway bar (front and rear). Leaned the shocks all the way in on rear, all the way up in front, changed the wheel base to longer/shorter, changed the wheel base to move the chassis forward/backwards, swapped shocks left to right, rebuilt the shocks twice, rebuilt the diff and spool once (1000wt in diff), tried 3 sets of tires (2 sets of Sweep blues, 1 set of Jaco Blues, brand new, run-in, and old). I've tried no traction compound on front (pushes like crazy), none on rear or front, front only, half front etc etc.
The only thing I've changed recently was the front drive shafts (went to the double joints).
Any ideas?
Most everyone here is running 1000wt in the diff. Should I be running anything different? Medium grip carpet...
Thanks!
Seth
Track video, with current layout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Higo51ig
Running my Wildfire on our small (70x30ft ish) carpet track. 17.5 Blinky. I'm having an issue that I can't seem to get resolved and not really certain what is causing it. We have a 180º sweeper off the straight, with about a 135º turn at the end of the sweeper. My car drives pretty well except that I feel like if I steer too hard, it will swap ends on me. I notice it most at the end of the sweeper above. On some of the other corners I feel like it is close to giving out the rear end, but never really does unless I screw up and give a little too much steering.
I wouldn't say it oversteers on power, mid corner or entry, but wouldn't say it pushes either. Just seems to happen when I get deep into steering.
I've tried softer rear springs, stiffer front springs. Tried all sway bars (front and rear), no sway bar (front and rear). Leaned the shocks all the way in on rear, all the way up in front, changed the wheel base to longer/shorter, changed the wheel base to move the chassis forward/backwards, swapped shocks left to right, rebuilt the shocks twice, rebuilt the diff and spool once (1000wt in diff), tried 3 sets of tires (2 sets of Sweep blues, 1 set of Jaco Blues, brand new, run-in, and old). I've tried no traction compound on front (pushes like crazy), none on rear or front, front only, half front etc etc.
The only thing I've changed recently was the front drive shafts (went to the double joints).
Any ideas?
Most everyone here is running 1000wt in the diff. Should I be running anything different? Medium grip carpet...
Thanks!
Seth
Track video, with current layout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Higo51ig
12-12-2012, 08:40 PM
#776
Its been all over the board trying to get this issue fixed.
Generally speaking this is where I left off today:
Sweep Blues
Ride height - 5mm f/r
Front
0.5º toe out
1.5º camber
Arms in middle
Red Springs
Top, 2nd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 2mm spacer
Steering links - rear most hole
Droop is 3 on Dynamite droop gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, medium
Rear
Toe, stock, 3 deg I think?
1.5º camber
Arms forward (1 1mm spacer forward)
Orange rear springs
Top, 3rd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 3mm spacer
outermost hole on hub
Droop is 3 on dynamite gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, loose
Orion 17.5
Tekin RS
JRS9100Z servo
49T pinion
96T Spur
1000wt diff oil
Protoform LTCR
At first I thought, maybe I've made the rear too soft and the rear of the chassis is hitting the ground as it rolls in the corners more causing it to lose a little rear grip, but I stiffened the rear quite a bit and didn't notice much difference (other than the rear getting really loose obviously)
Am I missing anything?
Generally speaking this is where I left off today:
Sweep Blues
Ride height - 5mm f/r
Front
0.5º toe out
1.5º camber
Arms in middle
Red Springs
Top, 2nd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 2mm spacer
Steering links - rear most hole
Droop is 3 on Dynamite droop gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, medium
Rear
Toe, stock, 3 deg I think?
1.5º camber
Arms forward (1 1mm spacer forward)
Orange rear springs
Top, 3rd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 3mm spacer
outermost hole on hub
Droop is 3 on dynamite gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, loose
Orion 17.5
Tekin RS
JRS9100Z servo
49T pinion
96T Spur
1000wt diff oil
Protoform LTCR
At first I thought, maybe I've made the rear too soft and the rear of the chassis is hitting the ground as it rolls in the corners more causing it to lose a little rear grip, but I stiffened the rear quite a bit and didn't notice much difference (other than the rear getting really loose obviously)
Am I missing anything?
12-12-2012, 08:48 PM
#777
Have you tried adjusting your droop? Maybe you don't have enough rear droop and one wheel is coming off the carpet? You can also try lengthening the front camber link or shortening the rear camber link to adjust your camber gain. And you can start playing with your roll center.
Also, after running it last night, I brought the car home and checked all the hinge pins and shock shafts to make sure none were bent. Spent some time to free up the arms a little. Car seemed smoother today after freeing it up a bit more, but still had the same problem.
Seth
12-12-2012, 09:56 PM
#778
What shock oil are you running front and rear? Also what shimming on your steering rack?
Its been all over the board trying to get this issue fixed.
Generally speaking this is where I left off today:
Sweep Blues
Ride height - 5mm f/r
Front
0.5º toe out
1.5º camber
Arms in middle
Red Springs
Top, 2nd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 2mm spacer
Steering links - rear most hole
Droop is 3 on Dynamite droop gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, medium
Rear
Toe, stock, 3 deg I think?
1.5º camber
Arms forward (1 1mm spacer forward)
Orange rear springs
Top, 3rd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 3mm spacer
outermost hole on hub
Droop is 3 on dynamite gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, loose
Orion 17.5
Tekin RS
JRS9100Z servo
49T pinion
96T Spur
1000wt diff oil
Protoform LTCR
At first I thought, maybe I've made the rear too soft and the rear of the chassis is hitting the ground as it rolls in the corners more causing it to lose a little rear grip, but I stiffened the rear quite a bit and didn't notice much difference (other than the rear getting really loose obviously)
Am I missing anything?
Generally speaking this is where I left off today:
Sweep Blues
Ride height - 5mm f/r
Front
0.5º toe out
1.5º camber
Arms in middle
Red Springs
Top, 2nd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 2mm spacer
Steering links - rear most hole
Droop is 3 on Dynamite droop gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, medium
Rear
Toe, stock, 3 deg I think?
1.5º camber
Arms forward (1 1mm spacer forward)
Orange rear springs
Top, 3rd hole out
Bottom, outermost hole
Camber link
3rd hole out on camber block, 3mm spacer
outermost hole on hub
Droop is 3 on dynamite gauge
Red swaybar
Belt, loose
Orion 17.5
Tekin RS
JRS9100Z servo
49T pinion
96T Spur
1000wt diff oil
Protoform LTCR
At first I thought, maybe I've made the rear too soft and the rear of the chassis is hitting the ground as it rolls in the corners more causing it to lose a little rear grip, but I stiffened the rear quite a bit and didn't notice much difference (other than the rear getting really loose obviously)
Am I missing anything?
12-13-2012, 01:20 AM
#780
Sounds like a classic weight distribution issue to me. Try moving weight forwards any way possible. Or move both front and rear wishbones backwards which will also move the WD forwards, but well have side effects on drive shaft angle