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Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost

Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost

Old 10-31-2010, 12:31 PM
  #61  
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And yer gonna train all the tracks to do this magical test? And front the money for them all to have the correct equipment to do this test?

And while I am sure you could get them all to agree on a standard.......go a few years down the road...company A is not doing so well, needs to sell some product, so they show up with a subtly boosted ESC for team guys.....win the race.....and what wins on sunday, sells on monday.....

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:34 PM
  #62  
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Turbo tech ?

Impossible to make work , hacked ESC will be easy to set , just tap the brake a few times and you have boost , three taps and boost is off...



Slowing the stock class is the excuss they gave you , its just a lie ...

With boost no one could cheat as anyone could just down load the latest profile for free...

Now ?

cheater's will win again and the disputes will be claimed almost every race ...

Wheres the fun in that ?
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:54 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.
Absolutely better for the hobby and to retain those who want to race on a budget.

We as racers forget sometimes how hard is was to get started and to have fun being competitive. Could you even fathom how hard it would be to figure out car set up on top of programming a boosted speed control on top of learning to try and drive one?

Boosted ESC's are for Experts. Racers and Hobbyists alike.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:19 PM
  #64  
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I think the biggest problem in on road in general is not the esc but the cost to get started and be competive. 500 for the chassis, 300 motor esc, 50 servo, radio 100 (at least) and tires. You are now at a grand and still need a body and paint. My onroad club has been shrinking and slowly dying. I am not sure how to bring it back. I think onroad needs a Slash like class for onroad. I think we need a touring car with the TC4 drive train and TC6 suspension. Rules would be 17.5 motor with a no timing ESC. Max battery 3000mah 2s 20c. Maybe a power pack starter deal with 3 packs and a charger for 200.

By the way Eddie if you read my post I said software and laptop was all that would be needed. Program would read programing and match to current Manufacter's roar approved program. The entire code would have to match.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Oh sure let me design someone elses crap for them too. How about I write up all of our proprioritory information for you too.

You still didn't answer my ? either Rob. Who is your source?
You don't have to design anything. What is the issue that caused the problem?

You're telling me you made the motor faster w/o timing if it's a big secret.

My source is proprietary
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:38 PM
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I read your post......and its been stated several times, that just a laptop and software won't magically be able to tech it....you would need SEVERAL programs to tech all the different ESCs, not mention different interfaces. What happens when you have a guy show up to a track with a new speed control, thats on the approved list, but the track doesn't have the tech stuff yet? You gonna tell that guy he can't race? He followed the rules, his ESC was on the approved list...

And listen and listen carefully...for every form of TECH you come up with, the hackers can and will beat it. It's all a joke dude. Go read up on all the stuff video game companies have tried, and constantly lost.....ask Microsoft how their digital copy protection went, before it was even officially released hackers released a hack called F$^&you.exe.....Bill Gates was enthused.

Paintball has been used an example....full auto was illegal....I could go into a game, pass tech with a gun.......pull a certain trigger sequence, and my gun would be full auto.....before you could blink an eye, I could do the same to put it back.....paintball was and still is, a MUCH smaller hobby than RC.

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:51 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by revo61 View Post
I think the biggest problem in on road in general is not the esc but the cost to get started and be competive. 500 for the chassis, 300 motor esc, 50 servo, radio 100 (at least) and tires. You are now at a grand and still need a body and paint. My onroad club has been shrinking and slowly dying. I am not sure how to bring it back. I think onroad needs a Slash like class for onroad. I think we need a touring car with the TC4 drive train and TC6 suspension. Rules would be 17.5 motor with a no timing ESC. Max battery 3000mah 2s 20c. Maybe a power pack starter deal with 3 packs and a charger for 200.

By the way Eddie if you read my post I said software and laptop was all that would be needed. Program would read programing and match to current Manufacter's roar approved program. The entire code would have to match.
On road is NOT that expensive---we've got 1/12 scale and 1/10 scale pan cars racing on both asphalt and carpet-- I just bought an associated roller for $125-- a small no timing esc with 17.5 motor to run our NON-timing esc stock class can be had for under $100. 1s batteries are MUCH cheaper than 2 s--so $50 then $15 body a a couple sets of tires--$45. $100 for a good steering servo--and $65 for a reciever---go race!! So for under your $500 price for a chassis--I have a complete RTR race car with spare tires.
And--the car will handle very well and is easy to learn to setup and drive!!!

On road can be very inexpensive---and FUN without spending a lot of money. Comparing the budget you put together --for top of the line cars to a "SLash" which is basically a "Junk" truck--isn't exactly a good comparison. I've see guys buy a "budget" Slash---then put $700 in it with "hop ups"!!
Keep it real and fun!!
T
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:55 PM
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You come with your new esc on the list, but track can re program it to whatever version is approved if cheating is supected. Entire code as well as memory size must be provided by each manufacturer on the approved list. Program not only looks at settings put also firmware itself to make each line of code matches the approved version. To cheat would take several entitys working together. But I know nothing is full proof, but I will make it as hard for u to succeed at cheating as possible. This kind of check would be at most big national and regional races. Club racing you will not have a lot of factory guys show up.

Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
I read your post......and its been stated several times, that just a laptop and software won't magically be able to tech it....you would need SEVERAL programs to tech all the different ESCs, not mention different interfaces. What happens when you have a guy show up to a track with a new speed control, thats on the approved list, but the track doesn't have the tech stuff yet? You gonna tell that guy he can't race? He followed the rules, his ESC was on the approved list...

And listen and listen carefully...for every form of TECH you come up with, the hackers can and will beat it. It's all a joke dude. Go read up on all the stuff video game companies have tried, and constantly lost.....ask Microsoft how their digital copy protection went, before it was even officially released hackers released a hack called F$^&you.exe.....Bill Gates was enthused.

Paintball has been used an example....full auto was illegal....I could go into a game, pass tech with a gun.......pull a certain trigger sequence, and my gun would be full auto.....before you could blink an eye, I could do the same to put it back.....paintball was and still is, a MUCH smaller hobby than RC.

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:58 PM
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Wait, so your saying they would all need to use the same code, with the same interface.......?

Yeah, good luck with that.....lmk how that works out.

Can you get all the cell phone companies to make a single charging plug too while your at it?

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:02 PM
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That is mod Slash were they add 700 in hop ups. Stock Slash you can only aluminum shock caps and tires and radio in my club. Most clubs limit what can be done to the Slash.

Originally Posted by timmig View Post
On road is NOT that expensive---we've got 1/12 scale and 1/10 scale pan cars racing on both asphalt and carpet-- I just bought an associated roller for $125-- a small no timing esc with 17.5 motor to run our NON-timing esc stock class can be had for under $100. 1s batteries are MUCH cheaper than 2 s--so $50 then $15 body a a couple sets of tires--$45. $100 for a good steering servo--and $65 for a reciever---go race!! So for under your $500 price for a chassis--I have a complete RTR race car with spare tires.
And--the car will handle very well and is easy to learn to setup and drive!!!

On road can be very inexpensive---and FUN without spending a lot of money. Comparing the budget you put together --for top of the line cars to a "SLash" which is basically a "Junk" truck--isn't exactly a good comparison. I've see guys buy a "budget" Slash---then put $700 in it with "hop ups"!!
Keep it real and fun!!
T
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:09 PM
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Not the same code but it would have to be registered with ROAR. So if I have a Novak Kinetic that has been hacked my code is not going to match what is was registered. Or you can say each ESC must be flashed with the spec firmware for the race and can only be tweak using handout programing cards which must be return for tech inpection after the race.

Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
Wait, so your saying they would all need to use the same code, with the same interface.......?

Yeah, good luck with that.....lmk how that works out.

Can you get all the cell phone companies to make a single charging plug too while your at it?

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by revo61 View Post
That is mod Slash were they add 700 in hop ups. Stock Slash you can only aluminum shock caps and tires and radio in my club. Most clubs limit what can be done to the Slash.
The point is---your comparing an "entry" level rule limited off road class to an "open" modified budget to go "EXPERT" on-road racing. There's PLENTY of off-road cars out there that cost over $1000 to race competitively with---but that's NOT an accurate comparison now is it!!??
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:23 PM
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I will probably get flamed but f-it. I personally loved the timing spec classes. It brought the tweaking back to brushless for the 17.5 and 13.5 classes. Also IMO it was the perfect class for the guys on a budget that didn't want to run mod and tear up belts,diffs etc faster. Rather than throwing the car on the track and playing with gearing and maybe fixed timing. There was that element that brings us back to the roots of the hobby, the guys that like tweaking and know what they are doing will go faster. I think the key issue isn't the cost or the technology of the esc's. Its the cars cost, and the development that goes into them that's increasing the cost of racing. HOWEVER. The last time I looked back in 1997 when a car cost around 200 bucks, a Big Mac, large fry and a soda was 2.99(now 5-6 bucks). The cost of everything has gone up. Its unfortunate that our hobby has shrunk, but I don't think that we will have a magic revival of the sportsman classes because timing isn't allowed. And for those guys that didn't have an esc on the approved list, they will now have to go out and buy one in the name of cost controlled racing. I guess I say this because at the beginning of last season I was running a KO BMC and I was getting destroyed on the straights, that made me work harder to get my car to be fast midcorner. I ended up getting a RS pro and I had the whole package. Unfortunately my local track is only running mod and 17.5 no timing. I guess I will be running more mod then lol.

Basically, there are bigger issues at hand than just timing. I have been around a little while, and the bolink digger and other spec CARS and other spec items don't seem to have longevity. But with the cost of the cars increasing to support the development that goes into them I think we need to look other places since the cost of an esc hasn't changed nearly as much as the cars themselves. (old school novak 410 m1c etc were what 150 bucks in the day? now esc's are 200...)The no timing esc's are an attempt at leveling the playing field. But anytime something is mandated by a sanctioning body there will always be people that are unhappy about it.

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Old 10-31-2010, 02:32 PM
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It already is registered with ROAR....

Each ESC has its own way to connect the firm ware, some of the ESC have no conventional interface like a USB cable or what. So now you are talking, each track has to have the capabilities to interface with EVERY approved ESC......who is gonna pay for this? Who is gonna be smart enough to use it? It's not like measuring ride height. If it was that simple, we would already have it, not blinking lights.....

And while your theory of flashing firmware may sound feasible.......try doing that at a race like Snowbirds......500+ entries.......have fun adding that timetable to the race day. Say 1 minute a car......thats 500 min to the race day, 8+ hours to the race day....

And like I keep telling you, but you DON'T want to listen, hackers will easily get around any type of data check, file size or what not.....its all just a challenge to them, that they pretty much never lose. Goes ask Apple, who kills jailbreaks every patch.....only to get beaten again. You gonna tell me Novak is gonna spend more than Apple does on software encryption.

All that's missing at this point is someone to take up the challenge.....like Novaktwo says "if you build, they will come"

Later EddieO
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:39 PM
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Personally if you really need to hack a esc to go fast in a stock class they're is something really wrong. What's this hobby turning into!!!
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