R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-29-2010, 12:08 PM   #1
Tech Regular
 
Ozzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, WV
Posts: 451
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost

Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.
__________________
Speedy Billls RC - www.speedybillsrc.com
Ozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 12:46 PM   #2
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,063
Default

We have a small club, generally 15 or so TC's at the moment on race days. We have 3 classes, Silver Can, 13.5 turbo, and mod.
Mod is almost dead beause 13.5 turbo is so fast.
There is a big gap from SC racing to 13.5 turbo.

Our decision was made at a national level, and there is a very mixed decision on how good it is from racers. Some love it, so think it's way too fast for your average club racer.

Which ever way you go, discuss with your racers first. They are the ones forking out cash for gear.
__________________
Agama A8 Evo | GRP .21 | Spektrum | Savox

My car just hit 88mph. I hope it comes back soon....
JR007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 01:55 PM   #3
Tech Master
 
Chaz955i's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,021
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.
Personally I think the racing and quality of driving has gotten quite a bit better running the spec speed controls. While it may not be quite as fast as when using timing the good drivers can still lay down some seriously quick laps as proven at the Halloween classic. Seems I see less broken cars which isn't a bad thing either.
__________________
At The Gate Bizzos
Chaz955i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 02:56 PM   #4
Regional Moderator
 
CarbonJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz955i View Post
Personally I think the racing and quality of driving has gotten quite a bit better running the spec speed controls. While it may not be quite as fast as when using timing the good drivers can still lay down some seriously quick laps as proven at the Halloween classic. Seems I see less broken cars which isn't a bad thing either.
True. The fast drivers are still fast, and the gap from slowest to fastest is still about the same. Parts breakage is down. The pointy end of the field had 4 or 5 places decided by hundredths of a second after 6 minutes. Can't ask for much more than that.

I will say that open ESC in 17.5 foam was fun, even if the stock foam cars were faster than the factory guys in Mod Rubber.
__________________
*** The Gate - Celebrating 8 years at the same location ***
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car
CarbonJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 03:03 PM   #5
Tech Adept
 
Rockin Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 123
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.
RCGT has filled the bill perfectly at our track, and if someones want, it a easy upgrade to 17.5 open speedo T/C. In fact most of the time, there are more RCGT cars than reg. T/C.
__________________
RC MADNESS
TEAM SCREAM
Rockin Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 03:10 PM   #6
Tech Master
 
timmig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trabuco Canyon-- in the Pines!!
Posts: 1,769
Trader Rating: 25 (100%+)
Default

Boosted speed controllers have made NO DIFFERENCE in the ability of the fast racers to remain fast. All it has REALLY done, is create more complexity to the sport. Because if you want to compare it to real racing---you CAN'T race them together!!
It's like putting nitrous or a turbo charger on your car---it puts it into a different class for racing. That's all the booster ESC's have done. Create a whole new class of racing. It's fine, but it does mean you HAVE to seperate them for racing. Their not equal, and can't be. IMHO, it's maybe fun to have a new toy to play with, but I DON'T think it was best for the growth of our hobby. Provided the manufacturer's with another marketing tool, to help seperate the racers from their $!!
Enjoy both, but CHOOSE which one's you'll run ---I PREFER the non-boosted, it's just easier, and I still can go just as fast if I want to. Instead of boosted 17.5-- I can run non-boosted 10.5 and be just as fast in 1/12 scale for example. Edgar drove a 10.5 non-boosted 1/12-- I ran boosted 17.5--and we ran identical lap times!!
Just enjoy racing either way.
T
timmig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 03:19 PM   #7
Tech Addict
 
georgec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 624
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

I race on a med. size carpet track in the winter months. There are two classes 17.5 sportsman and VTA with the option of an open mod class and so far everyone seems content with the two restricted classes. I run the 17.5 sportsman and on the medium/low bite carpet it's plenty fast enough. In the summer we run out doors on asphalt, VTA and 17.5 stock rules. There does seem to be more broken parts with the stock rules allowing boost but [email protected]#n it's fun on the higher bite asphalt track.
Just my .02 worth.
georgec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 03:55 PM   #8
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 711
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Rich View Post
RCGT has filled the bill perfectly at our track, and if someones want, it a easy upgrade to 17.5 open speedo T/C. In fact most of the time, there are more RCGT cars than reg. T/C.
This man speaks the truth. I was there on Thursday, lots of RCGT cars.
DuckStang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 04:04 PM   #9
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 833
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?
Our club adopted a 17.5 No Boost/Turbo setup for our TC Stock class...we also have what we term SuperStock which is 13.5 +Boost/Turbo. We've only had one club race so far this year but I'm inclined to say that the Stock class will be very successful for us. This is what I'm running because I frankly found Boosted 17.5 too much for me. I believe there are others like me in our club who feel that Stock (unBoosted) is just right for them right now and who can choose to move up if/when they feel they're ready.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Mike
__________________
Mike
Hyper_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 04:29 PM   #10
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

If you are starting from scratch and want to keep costs down, i suggest allowing only non PC programmable, non firmware upgradeable escs in your event.

It is impossible to check the PC programmable/firmware upgradeable controllers for cheating. We have set up a program in participation with USVTA that seems to be working well and the VTA guys are having fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 04:49 PM   #11
Tech Master
 
locked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,758
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
If you are starting from scratch and want to keep costs down, i suggest allowing only non PC programmable, non firmware upgradeable escs in your event.

It is impossible to check the PC programmable/firmware upgradeable controllers for cheating. We have set up a program in participation with USVTA that seems to be working well and the VTA guys are having fun.
So if someone has a perfectly good ESC that has a zero timing mode, you think they should have to go out and buy a new speedo in order to race in a zero timing class? Or if they are new, you think they should just buy a zero timing only speedo and if they want to get into a boosted class later then they will have to buy a new speedo. You think that is keeping costs down? You have some strange logic.
__________________
Dave Locke
Team PerformanceHobbies.ca | ORCA RC | Bodies by Brandon | Team Meeting
XRAY T4'15 x2 | XRAY XB4 | XRAY XB8E | XRAY XB8
locked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 05:16 PM   #12
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locked View Post
So if someone has a perfectly good ESC that has a zero timing mode, you think they should have to go out and buy a new speedo in order to race in a zero timing class? Or if they are new, you think they should just buy a zero timing only speedo and if they want to get into a boosted class later then they will have to buy a new speedo. You think that is keeping costs down? You have some strange logic.
Yes, I do. If the goal is to attract new customers, then keep it as affordable as possible.

We have a Trade-Up Program for our customers; they can buy a esc for spec racing and then trade up later to a more feature laden controller. We also offer factory re manufactured escs for a good price for racers on a budget.

Can you tell me how track owners/race directors can test for cheating with the PC programmable escs?
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 05:38 PM   #13
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post

Can you tell me how track owners/race directors can test for cheating with the PC programmable escs?

They can't, which is what a few of us said years ago......and we were told by Novak "there is nothing an ESC can do to a brushless motor to make it faster" (not a perfect quote)

Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #14
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
They can't, which is what a few of us said years ago......and we were told by Novak "there is nothing an ESC can do to a brushless motor to make it faster" (not a perfect quote)

Later EddieO
We need a name and the real quote.

If someone (at Novak) said that a racer could not hack into the esc firmware (e.g. Super Sport esc, at the time) to make the motor go faster, that was correct. And, they still can't.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 06:14 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
tallyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: palm city, fl
Posts: 2,594
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

oh, it's this thread again
__________________
WWW.STORMERHOBBIES.COM helping keep pan cars alive!

Turns out not where, but who your with that really matters... DMB
tallyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is On-Road dead ? lightfoot California Racing 291 09-19-2010 09:19 AM
Ernest Provetti Open letter to RC Industry stonedgti Electric On-Road 330 03-24-2010 10:29 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:17 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net