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-   -   Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/447842-thoughts-classes-no-timing-boost.html)

Ozzie 10-29-2010 12:08 PM

Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost
 
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.

JR007 10-29-2010 12:46 PM

We have a small club, generally 15 or so TC's at the moment on race days. We have 3 classes, Silver Can, 13.5 turbo, and mod.
Mod is almost dead beause 13.5 turbo is so fast.
There is a big gap from SC racing to 13.5 turbo.

Our decision was made at a national level, and there is a very mixed decision on how good it is from racers. Some love it, so think it's way too fast for your average club racer.

Which ever way you go, discuss with your racers first. They are the ones forking out cash for gear.

Chaz955i 10-29-2010 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by Ozzie (Post 8139517)
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.

Personally I think the racing and quality of driving has gotten quite a bit better running the spec speed controls. While it may not be quite as fast as when using timing the good drivers can still lay down some seriously quick laps as proven at the Halloween classic. Seems I see less broken cars which isn't a bad thing either.

CarbonJoe 10-29-2010 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by Chaz955i (Post 8139921)
Personally I think the racing and quality of driving has gotten quite a bit better running the spec speed controls. While it may not be quite as fast as when using timing the good drivers can still lay down some seriously quick laps as proven at the Halloween classic. Seems I see less broken cars which isn't a bad thing either.

True. The fast drivers are still fast, and the gap from slowest to fastest is still about the same. Parts breakage is down. The pointy end of the field had 4 or 5 places decided by hundredths of a second after 6 minutes. Can't ask for much more than that.

I will say that open ESC in 17.5 foam was fun, even if the stock foam cars were faster than the factory guys in Mod Rubber.

Rockin Rich 10-29-2010 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by Ozzie (Post 8139517)
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.

RCGT has filled the bill perfectly at our track, and if someones want, it a easy upgrade to 17.5 open speedo T/C. In fact most of the time, there are more RCGT cars than reg. T/C.

timmig 10-29-2010 03:10 PM

Boosted speed controllers have made NO DIFFERENCE in the ability of the fast racers to remain fast. All it has REALLY done, is create more complexity to the sport. Because if you want to compare it to real racing---you CAN'T race them together!!
It's like putting nitrous or a turbo charger on your car---it puts it into a different class for racing. That's all the booster ESC's have done. Create a whole new class of racing. It's fine, but it does mean you HAVE to seperate them for racing. Their not equal, and can't be. IMHO, it's maybe fun to have a new toy to play with, but I DON'T think it was best for the growth of our hobby. Provided the manufacturer's with another marketing tool, to help seperate the racers from their $!!
Enjoy both, but CHOOSE which one's you'll run ---I PREFER the non-boosted, it's just easier, and I still can go just as fast if I want to. Instead of boosted 17.5-- I can run non-boosted 10.5 and be just as fast in 1/12 scale for example. Edgar drove a 10.5 non-boosted 1/12-- I ran boosted 17.5--and we ran identical lap times!!
Just enjoy racing either way.
T

georgec 10-29-2010 03:19 PM

I race on a med. size carpet track in the winter months. There are two classes 17.5 sportsman and VTA with the option of an open mod class and so far everyone seems content with the two restricted classes. I run the 17.5 sportsman and on the medium/low bite carpet it's plenty fast enough. In the summer we run out doors on asphalt, VTA and 17.5 stock rules. There does seem to be more broken parts with the stock rules allowing boost but [email protected]#n it's fun on the higher bite asphalt track.
Just my .02 worth.

DuckStang 10-29-2010 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by Rockin Rich (Post 8140150)
RCGT has filled the bill perfectly at our track, and if someones want, it a easy upgrade to 17.5 open speedo T/C. In fact most of the time, there are more RCGT cars than reg. T/C.

This man speaks the truth. I was there on Thursday, lots of RCGT cars.

Hyper_Mike 10-29-2010 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by Ozzie (Post 8139517)
For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Our club adopted a 17.5 No Boost/Turbo setup for our TC Stock class...we also have what we term SuperStock which is 13.5 +Boost/Turbo. We've only had one club race so far this year but I'm inclined to say that the Stock class will be very successful for us. This is what I'm running because I frankly found Boosted 17.5 too much for me. I believe there are others like me in our club who feel that Stock (unBoosted) is just right for them right now and who can choose to move up if/when they feel they're ready.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Mike

NovakTwo 10-29-2010 04:29 PM

If you are starting from scratch and want to keep costs down, i suggest allowing only non PC programmable, non firmware upgradeable escs in your event.

It is impossible to check the PC programmable/firmware upgradeable controllers for cheating. We have set up a program in participation with USVTA that seems to be working well and the VTA guys are having fun.


Originally Posted by Ozzie (Post 8139517)
Our club is in the midsts of changing some of our classes over to the new ROAR approved speed controls (no timing or boost) and we are getting mixed reactions from racers. Our problem is we don't have enough racers to fill 2 classes of the same type (example, stock 17.5 and open touring car). I recently raced the Halloween Classic and thought the touring car class was great.

For those that have raced a class without the timing and boost, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is for the betterment of the hobby? Has it helped in gaining racers at your local track, or will it?

Just trying to gain some insight from other areas to see how well this new idea is accepted.


locked 10-29-2010 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by NovakTwo (Post 8140400)
If you are starting from scratch and want to keep costs down, i suggest allowing only non PC programmable, non firmware upgradeable escs in your event.

It is impossible to check the PC programmable/firmware upgradeable controllers for cheating. We have set up a program in participation with USVTA that seems to be working well and the VTA guys are having fun.

So if someone has a perfectly good ESC that has a zero timing mode, you think they should have to go out and buy a new speedo in order to race in a zero timing class? Or if they are new, you think they should just buy a zero timing only speedo and if they want to get into a boosted class later then they will have to buy a new speedo. You think that is keeping costs down? You have some strange logic.

NovakTwo 10-29-2010 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by locked (Post 8140458)
So if someone has a perfectly good ESC that has a zero timing mode, you think they should have to go out and buy a new speedo in order to race in a zero timing class? Or if they are new, you think they should just buy a zero timing only speedo and if they want to get into a boosted class later then they will have to buy a new speedo. You think that is keeping costs down? You have some strange logic.

Yes, I do. If the goal is to attract new customers, then keep it as affordable as possible.

We have a Trade-Up Program for our customers; they can buy a esc for spec racing and then trade up later to a more feature laden controller. We also offer factory re manufactured escs for a good price for racers on a budget.

Can you tell me how track owners/race directors can test for cheating with the PC programmable escs?

EddieO 10-29-2010 05:38 PM


Originally Posted by NovakTwo (Post 8140549)

Can you tell me how track owners/race directors can test for cheating with the PC programmable escs?


They can't, which is what a few of us said years ago......and we were told by Novak "there is nothing an ESC can do to a brushless motor to make it faster" (not a perfect quote)

Later EddieO

NovakTwo 10-29-2010 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by EddieO (Post 8140616)
They can't, which is what a few of us said years ago......and we were told by Novak "there is nothing an ESC can do to a brushless motor to make it faster" (not a perfect quote)

Later EddieO

We need a name and the real quote.

If someone (at Novak) said that a racer could not hack into the esc firmware (e.g. Super Sport esc, at the time) to make the motor go faster, that was correct. And, they still can't.

tallyrc 10-29-2010 06:14 PM

oh, it's this thread again :rolleyes:


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