JB - You will run the thick t-bar on carpet (usually). There are other instances that you would run a thin t-bar on carpet, eg. if the traction is really low. At this years Snowbird Nat's since the traction was so high, some guys were running .080 t-bars. Check out the setups from CRC's web page you should be able to get a baseline there.
Good luck,
Paul

Paul-

I was surprised that Smyka had run a .063 t-bar at Cleveland last year. I was pretty much of the mindset that you outlined; thicker t-bar's on carpet.

Thanks for your input.

I will start with a .075 and see how it goes. The main track I will be running on usually starts with low traction early in the night and gains quite a bit by the mains; not a ton, but a lot more than when we start the night of racing.

Thanks,
JB

I've used both with good results. You only do the outer edge, just a small bead on the rear tires to keep the foam from coming off the rims (some don't glue the rears at all). The front can be from the whole sidewall to just a thin bead....it all depends on how much side-bite you want to take away.

Mike, I am in the same boat as you. Having sold all of my electric stuff years ago, and racing nitro cars since, I am having to buy a lot. IT is proving my theory that gas cars are MUCH cheaper to race than electrics.

I bought a CRC Carpet Knife 3.2 which is a great car. Three GP 3700 four cell battery packs to start out with, a new Reedy 19T quad spec motor, a mini high speed digital steering servo, a small speed controller, a few different high downforce bodies, enough tires to run more than a couple of races, and then a new personal transponder for this car.

Then, the stuff off the car. You'll need a charger, as said before. Too many options here, but anything good requires some sort of power supply. Tire truers, motor lathes, power supplies, chargers, dischargers... blech. Can I just put a .09 nitro motor in this thing and be done with it?


I have already spent more on my gas cars that I have been racing for the last year, and I don't even have a way to get this car powered up yet. It's a big chunk, so be prepared if you want to do it right.


Good luck,

doug

thanks Doug for the info....i'm not sure what im going to do yet...i dont no if it will be worth the money...cuz i may onbly get out a couple times a month if im lucky mayb 1ce......so i might just get a savage or a basher to screw around with.....atleast in th ewinter i could take it off sum snow jumps ;) :) :nod: so i dont no what im going to do yet....savage or 12th scale.....12th scale is so darn expensive though so im really not sure

thanks for all your help

Mike

Expensive, yes, when you buy new... but I have built my race setup from eBay and the rctech.net Classifieds. You can do it really cost-effectively if you plan and don't hesitate when you find a good deal.


Good luck,


doug

thats a problem i know there are some good and honest people out there but then again their are some theives and i have read about many on this site...and you can get screwed over majorly on these sites....plus im not really into buying used....you never really know what the car has been through

Mike

factory racer
i had some spare time, so here it goes

first off, what's scaring you the most i beleive that you now think everything has to be top dollar to start out or be competitive, but on the other hand you don't want to go too cheap.

since most/all 1/12th classes are run predominantly with 4 cells there is more room for radio gear. i presume you have some fast servos (although large) on your gas cars, a decent receiver and radio? we have had a few of our 12th racers start out with big servos and receivers and only upgrade when they had the money or really felt like they needed to do so. one of our drivers commented once that he felt his car was easier for him to drive when it was heavier.

*ECS, so all you need to really start is a ESC/speed control. if your local club runs stock or 19T you won't need a $169 ESC

*CARS, new...here are two cars i have found for the money, no one comes close. plus both of these have adjustable servo mount or you can just double stick your servo to the chassis as you see in some pics posted withinn the last three pages
CRC's 1/12th t-bar car - The T-Fource 1/12th Car Kit. #1310 $149.99
The T-Fource comes complete with full bearings, green compound kit tires, large "D" ring diff, new style 0,5 and 10 degree front arm mounts and CRC's new threaded steel front axles.
Carpet Knife #1301 $149.99 Version 3.1 Car Kit. Dual aluminum damper tubes, CRC's rear side tweak springs, graphite chassis
and components, graphite axle, universal servo mounts.

*BATTERIES, looking around today for batteries today i found:

- HyperForm has some great prices on 3-packs of 4-cell GP3700 for $69.99 plus shipping ($23.33 each prior to shipping)
today was the first day i ever ordered from them

- you will probably want to start out in stock or 19T, in that case check around, you may find someone blowing out GP3300's for less than that which will have plenty of run time for those motors.

*CHARGERS, i see alot of people at our track doing just fine in all classes with Peak detectors that have built in power supplies that cost between $45 to $75 complete.

*TIRES, most basic kits come with green fronts and rears. the green rears will work to start out on carpet or asphalt. but you will need more than likely a set of purple fronts/pink rears for asphalt or purple fronts/grey rears for carpet to start out with. i have found KTHobbies.com or SpeedtechRC.com to have the best prices at $13.99 for front or rear Jacos or Parmas. $14.99/15.99 for TRCs.

*TRUERS are nice but not mandatory for starting out. at our track only one of us has a 12th arbored truer and with all three of our TC classes only 3-4 of them have truers, yet everyone helps everyone out ....minus the chunks we all have trued tires...even though only one driver at times brings their truer

with what you have and what you need....your looking at around a $290-350 commitment

apex speed

theory on nitro cheaper than electric................

the rule for some time has been for a electric car the initial cost is higher, but lower in the long run. nitro cars the initial cost is lower but higher in the long run.

i have run both, from experience it has always been true

some of the gas cars i have seen lately have the same or more electric items on them.

i will use a gas truck i recently saw

M-8 radio
hi-speed/hi-torque coreless MG servo for steering
hi-speed/hi-torque coreless MG servo for Throttle
micro receiver
5 cell GP1100 rec-pack
Onboard Temp sensor
Fail Safe Unit
Onboard Electric Starter Motor
Personnal AMB Xponder

and to be fair a electric maxed mod TC i saw.

M-8 radio
hi-speed/hi-torque coreless MG servo for steering
Novak GTX ESC
micro receiver
6 cell GP3700 pack (has a total of three packs)
2 cooling fans on motor
Personnal AMB Xponder

wow about the same :weird:

Anyone know if I'll have any problem running Jaco tires on my Reflex 12?

thanks for the info man...i really appreciate it

Mike

No problems with Jaco/Parma/TRC, they will all fit. :nod:

Electric racing is no more expensive to get into than Nitro. A decent Nitro touring car is at least $250, a decent .12 size motor $200, $60 (or more) for a starter box, two decent servos @$70 a pop, receiver pack and charger $50, and nitro fuel at $25 a gallon. that's $755 to get started, not including trasmitter and receiver.

TOP SHELF 12th scale kit $250, stock motor $30, mini servo $60, ESC $140, 6 3700 packs $140 Decent Charger $100. That's $720. Now factor in how much easier on tires a 12th scale car is, as well as the fact that you don't just recharge a fuel bottle, and I think you'l find that electric, both starting out, and in the long haul, is actually cheaper than nitro.

The infrastructure for electric is far more costly to run at the same level as a nitro car. You need chargers, power supplies, motor lathes, and then you get to play the never ending Trinity/Reedy game of battery and motor of the week.

I'm sorry, I've been around this stuff for an awful long time, and the turnover rate for nitro stuff is far less for the same level gear. At least when you have the nitro stuff, you aren't looking down the road for the latest motor and battery rule to change the landscape and force you to buy more stuff to obsolete what you have.

All depends on the level you wanna run at. I've been doing this almost 20 years, and if your club guys are all mid level, you can run mid level stuff and be competitive. If you wanna run out front in the region I live in, Nitro or Electric. You're gonna lay out the cash.

Fact: At the tracks in my area, The Nitro guys wear tires approximately 3 times faster than the electric guys! They also tend to go through bodies quite a bit more quickly. Since these are the TWO most expensive "disposable" items in racing my point is further proven.

All this stuff about the infrastructure of Electric racing being more expensive than nitro always comes up, but it's complete crap. If you race Nitro TC you need a tire truer just as much as you need one if you run carpet. I have no starter box for my Pro 4, I just flip the switch. I have no fuel bottle, no glow igniter, no temp gun, special clutch tools, or compression checkers, no set-up station for the complicated pivot ball suspension, etc. There are tools that make the job easier in both, but not all are necessary.

Rules: Obsolete stuff? Like all the Old .12s that roar recently made uncompetitive by changing the rules for the nitro sedan class? PLEASE. Battery development is beneficial to the hobby, of course GP 3300's aren't going away they're still plenty good for most racers. And as far as motors are concerned, I'll buy a new $30 stocker every few months, but $200 + nitro motor better damn sure not need replaced during the season! You threw your $200 motor budget down up front, I stretch mine out over the course of the entire season! If you run mod, you buy a couple of motors, and a couple of extra arms, and you can run an entire season and not buy any additional motors. Yep you gotta maintain 'em, but you gotta maintain your Nitro stuff too.

It's all just about the same, but in the long run, if you talk to people who do both on a regular basis, they'll tell you that Electric is actually cheaper overall.