Prototype ESC's - ROAR, Legal, Fair, Sportsmanship, Opinions?
09-25-2009, 08:32 AM
#616
In regards to the Advanced ESC not being prototype, I call BS.
Just because there are a "few" units available, in very limited quantities, does not mean that it is not a prototype. The ESC is in the last stages of testing and revisions before mass production. To summarize what Frank stated, they are making a few changes since the IIC to ready it for mass production. How can the limited quantity of units prior to mass production not be "prototype", especially if they aren't for retail sale?
Prototype -noun.
1. the original or model on which something is based or formed.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prototype
This is why ROAR needs to clarify/expand the rule in question. The rule states it has to be available for retail sale 14-days prior to the race.
To clear this up, Can anyone find one of these for retail sale? Tell us who to call to buy one, I'm sure several people will be willing to order internationally now.
Regardless, the ESC is going to be awesome, and until someone else comes out with something to match the Advanced/CRC ESC, I feel the competition is going to be very ugly for anyone not running one.
As I said on the Webisode, and I stand behind this, I think the CRC guys did a lot of testing and homework. Frank mentioned that Brian has run Advanced ESC's in the past. Sorry guys but I see this as a non-issue. Regarding the "Updates before it gets released" I really believe that revolves around making it PC-updateable like the KO and Tekin, along with getting it ready for "US Region" Sale, including updated instructions and box art for the US market. I think Jim's right when he said you're looking for the black helicopters where there are none.
09-25-2009, 08:41 AM
#617
I do realize that they didnt get involved before the 4th round was a mistake. But on the other hand, with their experience and resources, I think they could have made the change with little effect....other than the obvious.
I dont think there are any black helicopters. I think they found a clever way to make something better. Im all for that. I think most people are.
How do you tell a prototype from a production...when its manufactured to the same spec and when its available to the general public. I used to work for a gage manufacturer..we used to make up to hundreds of prototypes with full blown literature, packaging , etc.... So having an ESC with a printed box doesnt make it available to everyone.
Are these actually available to anyone in Europe ? If so, how come nobody has produced a website for this company? I guarantee a lot of people would be buying one just from this thread alone.
I dont think there are any black helicopters. I think they found a clever way to make something better. Im all for that. I think most people are.
How do you tell a prototype from a production...when its manufactured to the same spec and when its available to the general public. I used to work for a gage manufacturer..we used to make up to hundreds of prototypes with full blown literature, packaging , etc.... So having an ESC with a printed box doesnt make it available to everyone.
Are these actually available to anyone in Europe ? If so, how come nobody has produced a website for this company? I guarantee a lot of people would be buying one just from this thread alone.
09-25-2009, 08:59 AM
#618
09-25-2009, 10:00 AM
#619
well I have read this thread from beginning and really don´t know if I should laugh my ass off or just shake my head. As a European I can´t understand why some people make such noise about an ESC. 
Would you make the same noise if this ESC had been from Novak or is it just because a small company from a foreign country is making this ESC?.... Maybe they even use Alien technology.
I´m not sure if there are that real big differences in hardware between the current Top-ESC beside some optimizing you always could do. But it seems now software is more important than it had been ever in the past. Maybe the guys at Advanced Electronics had some better ideas than others but there is always further development from all of the brands.
I think if a company have a background in development of brushless technology for industrial purpose than they will have some advantage here also. Seems to be true for that company from Sweden.
I have heard from that ESC last year already so I don´t think it´s a prototyp. But beside this it´s not that difficult hiding a prototyp in a production case and I know this had be done in the past from certain brands.
On the other side some brands as GM-Racing, Tekin, Team Wave and others do release new software from time to time without changing hardware. What do you think is an production ESC using very different development software? Is this prototyp or not and how do differ this from a production unit?
Regarding the receiverbattery, I don´t see why you should not connect this directly to the ESC. This is just the better design when using such low voltage 1S Lipo. Also it´s nothing new, I know of older brushed ESC what did use exactly the same external connector for receiver-battery for the BEC.
And that small Lipos used for receiverbattery cannot feed the motor in any way. They would just explode or catching fire, you just have to look at their datasheet.
Also some people talking of some sort of voltage boosters inside the ESC for feeding the motor. As we talk here about very high currents this also means the voltage booster for such dimensions would be forcing the ESC to a much larger case, but not this small size.
Would you make the same noise if this ESC had been from Novak or is it just because a small company from a foreign country is making this ESC?.... Maybe they even use Alien technology.
I´m not sure if there are that real big differences in hardware between the current Top-ESC beside some optimizing you always could do. But it seems now software is more important than it had been ever in the past. Maybe the guys at Advanced Electronics had some better ideas than others but there is always further development from all of the brands.
I think if a company have a background in development of brushless technology for industrial purpose than they will have some advantage here also. Seems to be true for that company from Sweden.
I have heard from that ESC last year already so I don´t think it´s a prototyp. But beside this it´s not that difficult hiding a prototyp in a production case and I know this had be done in the past from certain brands.
On the other side some brands as GM-Racing, Tekin, Team Wave and others do release new software from time to time without changing hardware. What do you think is an production ESC using very different development software? Is this prototyp or not and how do differ this from a production unit?
Regarding the receiverbattery, I don´t see why you should not connect this directly to the ESC. This is just the better design when using such low voltage 1S Lipo. Also it´s nothing new, I know of older brushed ESC what did use exactly the same external connector for receiver-battery for the BEC.
And that small Lipos used for receiverbattery cannot feed the motor in any way. They would just explode or catching fire, you just have to look at their datasheet.
Also some people talking of some sort of voltage boosters inside the ESC for feeding the motor. As we talk here about very high currents this also means the voltage booster for such dimensions would be forcing the ESC to a much larger case, but not this small size.
09-25-2009, 10:08 AM
#620
If Novak came to the race with unavailable prototypes and smoked the field, yes they would still be griping. It has nothing to do with being a foreign product. I mean hell, it was CRC running it. They are about as American as it gets.
09-25-2009, 10:42 AM
#622
I'm hoping that this was tongue-in-cheek and not a serious accusation of me being "paid" to ask or not ask certain questions. I was the one who saw the issue crop up on the internet and thought it would make for an interesting interview. I was the one who contacted Frank, he did not contact us. I maintain complete and total editorial control over what we put out there, not the guests. Like I say I think this was more tongue-in-cheek than serious, but just wanted to put this out there.
09-25-2009, 11:49 AM
#623
There are very small and efficient components available already that can be used to up the voltage to provide 5.5 or 6V from input voltage ranging from 3 to 4.2V and that will take away the booster or Rx pack. It's just a matter of time before a company uses it. Doesn't Novak already have a ESC designed just for 1S lipo without the need of the booster? But like stated before, the software will be what really sets a ESC apart from the other. Good software, good components, smart design= winning ESC.
09-25-2009, 02:56 PM
#627
is what this ESC done known? Or is it still a secret?
--pakk
--pakk
09-26-2009, 03:41 AM
#628
The tech is out there to get faster, and if there is a rule that doesnt allow it, newer tech will find a way around it, or simply create new found power.
Rules are one thing that have a fine line attached to them, too many and it becomes unattractive, too less and people will just max out everything and leave other guys 1,2 or 3+ laps down.
I must admit, brushless can be quite daunting and expensive if you don't know what you're doing with it, but back it off a tooth when you find your limits (unless its a BIG race and don't mind blowing the $$$) and you're usually good to go.
Bottom line is that you're not going to please everyone, we all have our thoughts on what works and what doesnt, it's called being an individual, and thats racing...
Also, without pointing the finger and without straying off topic too much here...
To make the most of new tech, you need to know how to get the most out of it and are duly rewarded when you do have the experience and knowledge with a good set of thumbs...
Learning and earning your win ????
Ask yourself, "Yes I can race well, but do you know how to get the most out of your equipment?"
From my own perspective, I am "lucky" (if that's the right word to use) to see myself being part of TEKIN and our constant development, but it doesn't meen I can win races from sponsorship alone.
That is all from me
Rules are one thing that have a fine line attached to them, too many and it becomes unattractive, too less and people will just max out everything and leave other guys 1,2 or 3+ laps down.
I must admit, brushless can be quite daunting and expensive if you don't know what you're doing with it, but back it off a tooth when you find your limits (unless its a BIG race and don't mind blowing the $$$) and you're usually good to go.
Bottom line is that you're not going to please everyone, we all have our thoughts on what works and what doesnt, it's called being an individual, and thats racing...
Also, without pointing the finger and without straying off topic too much here...
To make the most of new tech, you need to know how to get the most out of it and are duly rewarded when you do have the experience and knowledge with a good set of thumbs...
Learning and earning your win ????
Ask yourself, "Yes I can race well, but do you know how to get the most out of your equipment?"
From my own perspective, I am "lucky" (if that's the right word to use) to see myself being part of TEKIN and our constant development, but it doesn't meen I can win races from sponsorship alone.
That is all from me
09-26-2009, 05:58 AM
#629
I don't know for sure, but I believe it has to do with dynamic timing.
An interesting feature of brushless motors is you can change the timing of the motor electrically. On brushed motors you could only change the timing mechanically, that is by changing the position if the brushes in relation to the magnets. Since you can change the timing electrically, you can program the speed control to change the timing based on the load on the motor. And this is where software comes in. By controlling how much timing and when, you can get the most out of your motor. This is what the Tekin SC does, and I believe the Advance SC software was specifically designed for single cell 1/12 scale.
This idea has been around for nearly a year now.
An interesting feature of brushless motors is you can change the timing of the motor electrically. On brushed motors you could only change the timing mechanically, that is by changing the position if the brushes in relation to the magnets. Since you can change the timing electrically, you can program the speed control to change the timing based on the load on the motor. And this is where software comes in. By controlling how much timing and when, you can get the most out of your motor. This is what the Tekin SC does, and I believe the Advance SC software was specifically designed for single cell 1/12 scale.
This idea has been around for nearly a year now.
09-26-2009, 06:03 AM
#630
Stock class used to be a driver's class. But it is slowly turning into (if not already there) an equipment class.