65LikesTC3 Forum
04-17-2002, 12:06 PM
#1651
Parts from NTC3
Here is my question. After looking at the pictures of the NTC3 I think you could make many of the nicer parts on the regular TC3. in paticular I would love to have the ablility to adjust rear toe in with links like on the NTC3. I also really like the ball joint pivots on the NTC3 and would love to run that entire supension set up. Here is the question does anyone know if this stuff will bolt on? I know it will make the car 200mm wide but other than that will it bolt on? I looked at the trannies and they seem to be very much the same size only with beefier gears. Let me know what you guys think.
04-17-2002, 06:16 PM
#1652
Well as stated on the other page, the rear toe links were off set wrong when placed on a TC3. So the rear toe will change as the suspension moves up and down. Of course this could be worked out with some more work, there are other things to consider. The trans cases should be the same on the newer TC3 kits. I have the Newer ones on my TC3. Both of my other friends TC3 have the older Trans cases. So I don't think the upper arm/shock mounts won't work from the NTC3 on an older TC3. As for the lower arm mounts, the holes don't line up on the TC3. If you look closes at an NTC, the spacing is farther up and back on the lower arm mounts than on the TC. So re drilling is required. This would take time to do correctly. But would be fun for a "hobbyist." I'd try it, but I have other ideas in mind first.... 
04-18-2002, 02:12 AM
#1654
Tech Adept
T-Phalen Just had a look at your tuning guide its not bad but there are a couple of small errors/ things I have a different opinion on. I'm not trying to dis you or anything but if I've got my own theories wrong I'd like to know about it.
In the Ackerman section I think you have the effects of altering the centre link back to front. A shorter centre link will give you less ackerman not more.
I also think it is a big ommision to not include information about roll centres in your section on moving cmber links.
In the battery placement section I think you have over simplified it by saying that moving the battery back gives you less steering and more rear end grip. By putting more weight on the rear wheels you will increase the vertical force on them and hence the traction they produce but if you move the batteries back to achieve this you are increasing the side load on the rear tyres because centrifugal force acts through the cars centre of mass which is now nearer the rear of the car.
My experience is that under power cells at the rear generally give more rear end grip but the car may snatch and step out mid corner. In tight corners and on turn in the car will be much more aggressive though. It is much more noticeable on a 2wd buggy (on grass) than a touring car.
Also the more spread out the weight is within the car, the greater its polar inertia will be. This slows down response and is why 3 cells forward and 3 cells back is easier to drive than 6 cells in the middle.
Finally in the caster section you say that less caster increases turn in and reduces on power steering. My experience would suggest the opposite to be always true with a 2wd buggy and usually but not always true with a touring car. I know plenty of people that would agree with you and plenty who would disagree. The reason that you can't say that caster always has the same affect is because it doesn't, even the tc3 manual says the opposite to you though schumacher agree.Caster doesn't just affect a single variable it affects camber (which itself can be divided into the effects of thrust and tyre tread angle), track width whilst turning and consequently roll centre and wheel rate. The amount and direction of lateral weight jacking affect caused by the change in height of the tyre as it turns will vary with ackerman angle and spring rate as well, so this will affect what changes in caster do. Also the significance of these affects will change with caster angle. The effects which are most significant at small caster angles on a touring car may not be the same as on a buggy running around 30 degrees.
Of course there is also the affect of how you drive. The speed you move the steering stick at probably has a significant affect at how noticeable each of these factors is.
Caster is just one of those adjustments you have to try.
Have fun.
In the Ackerman section I think you have the effects of altering the centre link back to front. A shorter centre link will give you less ackerman not more.
I also think it is a big ommision to not include information about roll centres in your section on moving cmber links.
In the battery placement section I think you have over simplified it by saying that moving the battery back gives you less steering and more rear end grip. By putting more weight on the rear wheels you will increase the vertical force on them and hence the traction they produce but if you move the batteries back to achieve this you are increasing the side load on the rear tyres because centrifugal force acts through the cars centre of mass which is now nearer the rear of the car.
My experience is that under power cells at the rear generally give more rear end grip but the car may snatch and step out mid corner. In tight corners and on turn in the car will be much more aggressive though. It is much more noticeable on a 2wd buggy (on grass) than a touring car.
Also the more spread out the weight is within the car, the greater its polar inertia will be. This slows down response and is why 3 cells forward and 3 cells back is easier to drive than 6 cells in the middle.
Finally in the caster section you say that less caster increases turn in and reduces on power steering. My experience would suggest the opposite to be always true with a 2wd buggy and usually but not always true with a touring car. I know plenty of people that would agree with you and plenty who would disagree. The reason that you can't say that caster always has the same affect is because it doesn't, even the tc3 manual says the opposite to you though schumacher agree.Caster doesn't just affect a single variable it affects camber (which itself can be divided into the effects of thrust and tyre tread angle), track width whilst turning and consequently roll centre and wheel rate. The amount and direction of lateral weight jacking affect caused by the change in height of the tyre as it turns will vary with ackerman angle and spring rate as well, so this will affect what changes in caster do. Also the significance of these affects will change with caster angle. The effects which are most significant at small caster angles on a touring car may not be the same as on a buggy running around 30 degrees.
Of course there is also the affect of how you drive. The speed you move the steering stick at probably has a significant affect at how noticeable each of these factors is.
Caster is just one of those adjustments you have to try.
Have fun.
Last edited by dw; 04-18-2002 at 02:22 AM.
04-18-2002, 07:17 AM
#1655
dw- thanks for the input.
I did put on the opening page that MOST of the tuning IS affected by the rest of the setup, and that while changing one thing should give the posted effect, it may be a little different according to the rest of the setup.
I also understand that it's a bit simple. That was the idea. People like you that have a good understanding would definitely find it simple and boring, and could add much more (as you have) to explain it better, but I would have to say that 75% of the people out there don't REALLY know what caster or camber or ackerman is, or what it will do to a setup. This was supposed to be a general notion that you could play with to come to your own conclusions. And, of course, the problem of off road vs. on road. I know that in some cases what happens in on road is totally different than what happens in off road. I need to fix that, but I haven't run off road in so long I don't know if I remember what does what.
Last point, these tips are based on what I feel the car does when I make the change. I run weekly with some of the fastest drivers in the world and, while this doesn't necessarily make me right, it is based on my opinion and what the other drivers I run with have said. Again, different setups might reflect different results.
Thanks for your input though. I will get back out there and try to do some more testing in the off road forum to add that to the site.
I did put on the opening page that MOST of the tuning IS affected by the rest of the setup, and that while changing one thing should give the posted effect, it may be a little different according to the rest of the setup.
I also understand that it's a bit simple. That was the idea. People like you that have a good understanding would definitely find it simple and boring, and could add much more (as you have) to explain it better, but I would have to say that 75% of the people out there don't REALLY know what caster or camber or ackerman is, or what it will do to a setup. This was supposed to be a general notion that you could play with to come to your own conclusions. And, of course, the problem of off road vs. on road. I know that in some cases what happens in on road is totally different than what happens in off road. I need to fix that, but I haven't run off road in so long I don't know if I remember what does what.
Last point, these tips are based on what I feel the car does when I make the change. I run weekly with some of the fastest drivers in the world and, while this doesn't necessarily make me right, it is based on my opinion and what the other drivers I run with have said. Again, different setups might reflect different results.
Thanks for your input though. I will get back out there and try to do some more testing in the off road forum to add that to the site.
04-18-2002, 11:26 AM
#1658
Tech Apprentice
tc3 4 ever
i have swithced to a factory team tc3 and it is the best it handles like adream hhahahhaha
04-18-2002, 03:13 PM
#1660
Originally posted by TPhalen
For racing, it's only 8. For all out stupid fast fun, 12. I know, I know, it's a bit overkill, but that's part of the fun!!!
For racing, it's only 8. For all out stupid fast fun, 12. I know, I know, it's a bit overkill, but that's part of the fun!!!
We now have a E/T-Maxx track in the area, we had racers from both ends of the nation here this past weekend. I saw Georgia and Cali tags. I also heard someone say they were from Illinois. It was busy! Factory drivers from Traxxas were racing.
Oh well, back to the TC3.
04-18-2002, 07:10 PM
#1661
Tech Apprentice
my Tc3
my tc3 handles like a dream on asphalt and it wins alot of tqs and is very fast if you need a good setup get a factory team tc3's stock setup it'll woop some tail!!
04-18-2002, 07:12 PM
#1662
Tech Apprentice
gearing
what are you guys geared at just wondering?? w/b asap i need 2 konw before the races start on sunday thanks-peace
04-18-2002, 07:14 PM
#1663
Tech Apprentice
setup
what springs do you run outdoors i got the stock setup and it runs pretty goo well hope you got good setups 4 me!!1
04-18-2002, 07:15 PM
#1664
Tech Apprentice
servos
what kind of servos do you run for speed and whats the best one for not 2 expensive?? also where can you get a blue aluminum shaft instead of the carbon one thanks-peace out
04-18-2002, 07:17 PM
#1665
Tech Apprentice
speed controls
i have a quantum competition and it works great it has a better resistance than a cyclone tc2 or an atom does anyone use it cuz i know all the a main quilifiers do well thats me 4 u write back with your resuls thanks peace out every one im going to go race now ok bye bye