Hey kim,
here's a couple of pics for the tower spacer we discussed.
Suggestions?

Just curious the use of this tower spacer and where it goes on the existing car.

Here are a couple of TOP SECRET spy shots of the prototype spacer on my car.
It's used to set the rear shock tower further back on the chassis. Early tests have shown that it increases stability and transfers the wings downforce more efficiently to the suspension because it puts the body mounts closer to the rear wing.

I will have aluminum versions cut by the end of the week.

Nice Rick man your good.. Bring it this weekend for us to test..

We have tested that moving the shock tower further back and mounting the shock inside it stablelized the rear end of the car on the straight-line this help the rear end to be more planted specially if your running mod.

We have also tested it on boosted 17.5 with very good results. The car carry a lot more corner speed without breaking the rear end loose. We got this idea from top photon.

I have another part in mind that I hope to have a prototype ready by the next race.
I don't want to let the cat out just yet but it will be good for later in the season.:sneaky:

I'll bring it with your battery tray as long as it doesn't rain again.:cry:
I'm going to make about six spacers for the first run.

Spill it out Rick..

Shame on you:D:D
You make us curious but won't tell what it will be untill later this year???:confused::weird::cry:

regards Roy

No,No, just need to wait till I'm sure it works. That's all...
I hinted that it's related to later in the season because it incorporates a fan.:p
I hope to have a plastic prototype by this weekend and then I will post pictures soon after.

Just kidding mate:D:D
We will see it when it is ready and tested.

regards Roy

Hey guys,
I'm open to suggestion for parts you wish TM or K Factory would make.
I will ponder the ideas an even fab up some that seem feasible.
Some that have come up already are:

Gear diff
New chassis w/o battery cutout (change by removing top deck).
Lower bumper support plate
etc.

The chassis plate 2.25mm thickness would be a nice touch as I find the stiffer you make the chassis the more consistent the performance of the car expecially on high grip (carpet).

It would be nice to have a 3mm/2mm thick carbon piece to go over all 4 screw holes for the bulkhead / posts where the top deck attaches in the front of the car.

In the front end offer a wide front hinge pin mount to change the arm sweep for more steering on asphalt.

In the front offer a wider set of hinge pin mounts front and rear to allow making it wider by 0.25-0.75mm to reduce front end response and allow for softer front end shock feel. This is different then adding 1mm shims or using the wolf axel extensions on the car.

Please add upper bulkheads for both front and rear made of stronger material like preferably in Delrin.

I run a JS because I don't like the battery cutout. Perhaps you can model your non battery cutout after the JS like an all carbon version of the JS chassis and a carbon replacement of the JS battery holder.

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

I think the most significant upgrade would be a better chassis so I will look into the costs and vendors for a new design.
Ultimately I would like to learn enough to start a new car design from the ground up but it's a very involved so I will stick to performance related upgrades for the time being.

I wanna see a new narrower chassis with no cutouts like the original E4. With narrower chassis It gives you more steering and the car react more faster with driver steering input. I have noticed this difference Between running the original E4 from the 09' chassis. The 09' chassis suffered with a little bit of under steer.

I'm not sure if you can still get the original chassis.

Rick,

I also wanna see a symmetrical motor POD... I feel like the chassis don't have an even flex on the rear due to the motor mount side is stiffer.

I also wanna see a different motor mount that lowers the motor few millimeter for lower COG.

Rick is designing a new chassis for the E4 I can't what to see he can come out with, We got some good idea for the prototype chassis. :sneaky::sneaky:

Here is a few picture of my TM E4 with the prototype shock spacer that Rick designed. We have been testing this prototype part and it work really well. Again from the previous post this will move your shocks to be mounted inside and the shock tower will be move further back this will support the rear end of the body. During our test it stabilized the rear end of the car on high speed down the straight line and it gives you more rear traction and increase corner speed.:sneaky:

I would be all over the new chassis! Also +1 on the upper bulkheads in a stiffer plastic.

Why not make a new bulkhead where the spacer is incorperated??
Or better yet make a bulkhead where the shocktower mounts are more to the rear??

regards Roy

I ran it with spacers a few years ago it worked pretty well.

I'll talk to Rick if their is enough interest I think he would do it to design a new rear bulkhead. But cost of material would be ally more.

If there would be a new rear bulkhead where the shockmount would be further back then i want one and perhaps my mate wants also one or 2.
If no new rear bulkhead would be made then i want a ally spacer kit:D

regards Roy

Here's the plan...
The spacer worked great and the next part I designed is a new side brace that incorporates a mount for a 30mm fan. the third part in the mix will be rear body supports that stiffen the spoiler deck to increase downforce efficiency even further.
I raced on carpet last Wednesday night and the car was the most neutral it has ever been in high bite conditions. I was able to keep up with the mod racers while running 17.5 with boost! I'm really starting to enjoy this car! I gotta tell you that I changed almost nothing from my pavement setup. I reinstalled my rear sway bars and dropped the gearing, that's it. I even ran the same tires ( Sorex 24 deg.) from the freezing Sunday before which I set fastest lap out of all classes. I will post my setup as soon as I fill out the sheet. I didn't even use sauce, it was that stuck without a hint of traction roll. I've had good days and bad days with the E4 but it's never been this good, especially going from one track to another with such an extreme difference in conditions. Kinda scary. :nod: just to give you an idea of how extreme, Sunday we ran on a parking lot treated with soda with the temps in the 40-50 deg.F, overcast after several weeks of on and off rain. (low traction and dirty) Wednesday night indoor carpet at Norcal Hobbies in Union City with great grip and a smaller configuration.

Now as far as the bulkhead redesign goes, an aluminum version is already available as stock from TM and Wolf Hobbies but I will model it up with the spacer for those who don't have the TM aluminum versions as of yet but the spacer seems to be the logical part to start with as it is much easier to machine and thus reduces the cost significantly. For now the plan is to provide a kit that will address the rear end from 3 angles. 1. the shock tower spacer 2. side brace and 3. body post deck supports. All will be aluminum but I can provide ABS plastic versions for evaluation at a much lower cost as seen on my car. I will post pictures later today.
I project that the pricing would be as follows but may change for aluminum once I get a clearer idea as to what my costs will be.

$15.00 for ABS plastic per set + shipping
$35.00 for aluminum per set + shipping

I will post estimates for the upper bulkhead once I model it up. The main problem here is that it will require a fairly large piece of raw stock to make a one piece design unless I can break it down to 2 or 3 parts screwed together.:confused:

I told you rick stick we the stock E4 setup which really work good on any track surface just need a little adjustment to suite the track. With stock setup the car work really well on high traction track.

I'm thinking of going to west coast RC down in L.A next week let me know if you want to go?

hi,

how much will it cost if you send it to Europe?

here's some pics of the prototype parts.

I will have to check into it but I would imagine it won't be more than shipping to Australia.
About $10 USD

+1 count me in to.still have my original e4. love this car.:D

Magic lot for sale........

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...ighlight=magic

E4JS - setup, hop ups etc
 

I just wanted to post about the E4JS as it doesn't get many mentions and after a few meetings, I've got it going really well.

My setup is for medium grip carpet on Sorex 28JB rubber tyres in 17.5 boosted Stock class..
Additive: Jack the Gripper, full rear coverage, almost full front coverage bar a rim on the outside, about 15-20mins before.
Ride height f/r: 5mm
Downstops f/r: 3
Shock position f: outermost hole on tower
Shock position r: innermost but one on tower
Antiroll bar on front only, the stock one from the RS
Shock oil: 40wt allround
Springs: Stock
Camber & Toe: not checked lately but looks 1 degree
Diff f/r (didn't get on with the spool, an acquired taste)
Steering on transmitter: full front lock, no D/R reduction (I find makes for an agile car)

Was comparable in pace to Mi4s and XRays, albeit, like me, in the hands of relatively inexperienced drivers.

Handling was agile, lots of sidebite, so much so there was some bodyshell rubbing on the carpet. Might put the stock rollbar in the rear and a heavier one up front.
Stiffer springs also a good idea - I have some Yokomo and Schumacher ones to try.

If I was going to upgrade the car, I'd look at steering assemblies with less flex/slop first.
Durability is excellent, has shrugged off a few heavy impacts, though a freak accident (Mi4 embedded in the side of the car) slightly damaged a side pulley (still works) and flipped the belt over.

If anyone is thinking of doing a chassis for the E4 series, one that uses the JS front and rear sub-chassis would be worth consideration.

Nice to see that there are other fans of the JS.

I found this to be a problem as well and I did all I could to stiffen the front end with alum. upgrades but it seemed like no matter what I did the slop comes mainly from the servo saver or the ball cups that gets worn quite easily.

The idea of the front and rear sub chassis is nice but it really didn't work so well. The problem was that the sub chassis pieces were made of the same ABS plastic as the main chassis and when the sub chassis breaks on occaision, it sometimes break the tabs on the main chassis where the sub chassis attaches to. In this case, I'd rather have a one piece durable and solid graphite slab as a chassis like the FS and RS.

The irony about the JS is that after upgrading the crap out of that chassis with all the alum. upgrades, I found that it ran better when it was completely stock with all the plastic pieces.:lol: Go figure.:rolleyes: However, I think that the beauty of the JS is that it was a very forgiving car with lots of flex and to try and stiffen it with alum. upgrades doesn't work. The only way to improve on a JS is to just upgrade to an FS or RS.

There are the E4D alloy chassis parts too, but probably cheaper to get a one-piece made, as you say. Without a battery hatch, it should be quite stiff with equalised flex, and it's already narrow.

If a car requires major modification out of the box, it's probably not a good car! I've got a RS waiting in the box, just have to get around to transplanting electrics. The JS will for sure get outdoor duties, that RS chassis is too pretty to scratch up on asphalt!

No thats not my point. The JS is a good car for what it is. However to try to improve on it with upgrades only makes it worse, not better.

If you have an RS, run that. I think theres a guy named Rommel here on the forum that sells pre-cut chassis savers specific for the E4 that will prevent it from being scratched up.

New chassis plate
 

Ok guys, here is the preliminary model for the suggested chassis plate.
This should be compatible with all Carbon versions of the E4 and will likely include a redesigned top plate to go with it.
This model is based on 2.5mm carbon plate. When I get around to prototyping it, I will start with 2mm stock to verify if the new design will be stiff enough at that thickness. Besides, it's what I have on hand.:lol:
In case you were wondering, the battery may be removed by pulling off the side belt and middle brace. I may design a new middle brace to make installing and removing the battery easier but I suppose I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. In these days of lipo batteries I find it rare that I will remove my pack. I just charge and go. Either way, it cant be worse than taping packs in every heat when running NiMh.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Looking forward to it. This will probably be the last upgrade I will need for the JS.:lol::lol: After your chassis upgrade there will be hardly anything JS about my E4.

Well I went and did it....I'm a E4 owner. Be prepared for lots of dumb questions. :D
I've been thinking about the E4 for quite awhile since I owned a JS for a few days and loved the layout. I simply needed to thin down and the JS needed more of an investment than I could afford. Funny, now I'm down to basically 1 race chassis so I have no choice but to learn and spend what I have to to make it work. Gee, poor pitiful me.:D I'll be racing it in VTA on unprepared(no compound) asphalt parking lot on a 80x45, technical track. Can anybody lead me to a decent setup ?? I'm actually reading through all 200+ pages of this thread but it's gonna take awhile.
Hey YR4Dude, thanks for answering my inquiry about the Kawada. I ended up getting an offer to buy it from a guy in Canada. He bought all my Kawada stuff.

I've tried a bunch of different setups online but keep landing back on the following setup sheet as a starting spot.

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/team...ne20080224.htm

Car Tuning Help :

Shocks (My findings / Preference)
Tried 30wt 3 hole car is too bouncy (reactive).
Like 40wt 3 hole as car becomes predictable in bumpy conditions.
If you increase front to 45wt or 50wt 3hole it reduces front steering.

To remove front steering from the car I will change the following items.
- Front spring from 17.5lbs to 19.5lbs
- Increase the front sway bar from 1.2 to 1.5
- Increase front track width (190mm) to prevent traction rolling.
- Reduce front droop to 2.5 or 1.5mm

For more rear grip keep adding 1mm shims upto 4mm to the inside rear bulkhead.

For extreamly loose surfaces (Start With Kit Setup Sheet - Try Following Ideas)
- Remove center brace (additional flex).
- Remove the rear swaybar
- Softer Springs all around 12.5lbs or 15lbs (extream case: use kit silver springs).
- Middle hole front and rear on bulkhead with no shims.
- 3mm droop all around.
- Inside shock position hole 1 all around.
- extream case : remove front swaybar - remove 2 of front top deck bulkhead screws

New chassis plate
 

Looking forward to hearing your on track report of the new plate. My hope is that it will make the car more consistent on carpet without needing to switch to the thick 3mm foam chassis.