1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
04-11-2008, 07:26 PM
#736
Just for what it is worth, I will throw in my opinion, observation or whatever you want to call it.
I am a newbie, heck not even a newbie yet, interested in getting into the RC Racing sport. I have a background in 1/32nd slot car racing, and have been involved in full scale racing.
From the point of few of someone looking into this sport..
1. Very confusing sport. So many options, there are rule sets, but so many modifications to the rules, etc.
2. Very expensive cost of entry into the sport
3. Very confusing on how to enter the sport
From that standpoint, I have to say the Vintage US Trans Am class is extremely welcoming.
I can buy a used chassis, an rtr kit, or whatever and don't have to worry about making the wrong choice. I get to learn how to drive and compete in a slower car. Learn how things work. I can start there, and can move into 1/10 TC and be able to take some of my tools, equipment, knowledge with me. The streamlined rule set is very attactive. I understand them, I like that it comes right down to part numbers, don't have to figure out what they mean. Hey, the cars are pretty cool looking too, that doesn't hurt.
A few observations on the 1/10 pan car approach. I certainly haven't exhausted all the available information and websites available on rc racing, but I don't see a whole lot of 1/10 pan car stuff out there. But hey, I just don't know that much about it. If you could come up with formula that makes a 1/10 pan car run similar to the 1/10 TC in Vintage Trans Am, would be possibly cool, but beware of overly complicating the rules and making too many options. From a person looking at getting in, the amount of options is a bit overwhelming.
So, I would like to give kudos to whoever is organizing the Vintage US Trans Am class, not that there couldn't be some other formulation out there that would work, but in it's current form, this is a very attractive class to the newcomer in the sport, and I guess that is part of the point.
Thanks.
I am a newbie, heck not even a newbie yet, interested in getting into the RC Racing sport. I have a background in 1/32nd slot car racing, and have been involved in full scale racing.
From the point of few of someone looking into this sport..
1. Very confusing sport. So many options, there are rule sets, but so many modifications to the rules, etc.
2. Very expensive cost of entry into the sport
3. Very confusing on how to enter the sport
From that standpoint, I have to say the Vintage US Trans Am class is extremely welcoming.
I can buy a used chassis, an rtr kit, or whatever and don't have to worry about making the wrong choice. I get to learn how to drive and compete in a slower car. Learn how things work. I can start there, and can move into 1/10 TC and be able to take some of my tools, equipment, knowledge with me. The streamlined rule set is very attactive. I understand them, I like that it comes right down to part numbers, don't have to figure out what they mean. Hey, the cars are pretty cool looking too, that doesn't hurt.
A few observations on the 1/10 pan car approach. I certainly haven't exhausted all the available information and websites available on rc racing, but I don't see a whole lot of 1/10 pan car stuff out there. But hey, I just don't know that much about it. If you could come up with formula that makes a 1/10 pan car run similar to the 1/10 TC in Vintage Trans Am, would be possibly cool, but beware of overly complicating the rules and making too many options. From a person looking at getting in, the amount of options is a bit overwhelming.
So, I would like to give kudos to whoever is organizing the Vintage US Trans Am class, not that there couldn't be some other formulation out there that would work, but in it's current form, this is a very attractive class to the newcomer in the sport, and I guess that is part of the point.
Thanks.
04-11-2008, 07:35 PM
#737
Yeah, what I don't understand is how people can come in here and so happily accept anything without question, follow the lead buffalo off the cliff, and yet proudly proclaim their Amerian heritage yet have the nerve to hammer anyone that dares suggests something simple and easy as wrong just because they questioned authority.
How you ever could rationalize that this class "puts everyone an even playing field any more than any other TC "class" is beyond me. Exactly how is it equal?
And how you could ever think this would "teach a novice driver to become a better driver" or "teach a novice how to setup a car" tells me you either know something that I don't -- or that you are going to mystically impart knowledge via some Vulcan mind-meld technique while strolling around the pits. Good luck with that.
But what you are doing is supporting a new idea for a class of racing while intentionally attempting to justify taking to your own new playground while telling others they can't play too.
Is it because you're on a personal quest to form a class that you can win at instead of looking for ways to add more racers - or what?
How you ever could rationalize that this class "puts everyone an even playing field any more than any other TC "class" is beyond me. Exactly how is it equal?
And how you could ever think this would "teach a novice driver to become a better driver" or "teach a novice how to setup a car" tells me you either know something that I don't -- or that you are going to mystically impart knowledge via some Vulcan mind-meld technique while strolling around the pits. Good luck with that.
But what you are doing is supporting a new idea for a class of racing while intentionally attempting to justify taking to your own new playground while telling others they can't play too.
Is it because you're on a personal quest to form a class that you can win at instead of looking for ways to add more racers - or what?
The cars remain slower due to the stock class motors and 4cells on the TC chassis therefore making it easier to control the car and also allowing the novice to learn car control. It also teaches a novice car setup as downforce and tire grip being removed from the equation they can see how suspension adjustments will effect the chassis they are running.
And i am following the rules not following some buffalo off the cliff. If thats the case then why do you race at all considering EVERY class has its set rules that are not debatable.
And i am not in this class because i am looking for something i can win at i am looking for a class thats not going to drain my bank account of every last penny and use the equipment i have laying around that has since become outdated.
04-11-2008, 08:19 PM
#738
I hope that 1/10 on-road pan car makes a comeback because that is where I started r/c racing over 20 years ago. However I don't think that currently it is a cheaper option. Most new 1/10 on-road kits are either conversion chassis for existing oval cars or completely new kits. I've checked a few of the currently available kits (CRC & Corally) and they list for over $300. The only other option is to try to find a used pan car which isn't always the best way to draw new racers.
For now the USVTA has created a class that is trying to bring some fun back into road course racing. If that helps breathe some new life back into 1/10 road course racing then I think that is a good thing. Racers can use their old tc and be competitive or even buy an inexpensive TC and be able to compete(TT-01/TB-02/T-Spec which all retail for less than $200)
I wonder how many people that this class is really taking from the other TC classes out ther. I for one am currently NOT racing any 1/10 TC on-road class. However, I am very interested in racing my old TC3 or HPI Pro2 in this class. The reason I would race in this class isn't to find a class I can win at (I have TC oval for that) but a class that is a good speed for todays tracks that can be fun.
For now the USVTA has created a class that is trying to bring some fun back into road course racing. If that helps breathe some new life back into 1/10 road course racing then I think that is a good thing. Racers can use their old tc and be competitive or even buy an inexpensive TC and be able to compete(TT-01/TB-02/T-Spec which all retail for less than $200)
I wonder how many people that this class is really taking from the other TC classes out ther. I for one am currently NOT racing any 1/10 TC on-road class. However, I am very interested in racing my old TC3 or HPI Pro2 in this class. The reason I would race in this class isn't to find a class I can win at (I have TC oval for that) but a class that is a good speed for todays tracks that can be fun.
04-11-2008, 08:49 PM
#739
i am very interrested in this class. We are trying to get this going in georgia. As far as I am concern, this is a great class for anyone who is new to the sport and just want to have fun. I race TC mod but have a second chassis that is older and always like the look of these cars. ANd when we decided to try this i was all for it for the fun of it. WIN or LOSE.
04-11-2008, 09:53 PM
#740
Suspended
even playing field is achieved by the fact that everyone is at the same mechanical grip level due to the tires, the minimum weight is achievable by just about the heaviest touring cars, and the motors brushless and brushed are limited to be equal...therefore everyone is on an even playing field you dont have to go out and buy some $450 rolling chassis just to hope to be competetive.
But just to give you some insight, while tires play part of the role in this - chassis, let me say it louder so you can hear it, CHASSIS design and mechanics and set-up has the most to do with mechanical grip (notice the operative word, mechanical).
And this is the reason why so many folks have gotten away from TCs, to stay competitive in the scheme of achieving optimum mechanical grip manufacturers are constantly redesigning the wheel to push the envelope and enable their cars to get more traction.
And that, pal, eventually takes everyone wanting to win back to the same old game of "buy some $450 rolling chassis just to hope to be competetive."
And I don't care what you might think, any motor manufacturer will tell you that there is no way you can compare brushed to brushless motors, Plain and simple, ain't gonna happen - period, end of story.
The cars remain slower due to the stock class motors and 4cells on the TC chassis therefore making it easier to control the car and also allowing the novice to learn car control. It also teaches a novice car setup as downforce and tire grip being removed from the equation they can see how suspension adjustments will effect the chassis they are running.
You can do that with any car, in any class - and I never mentioned that the "Lights" cars wouldn't follow this anyway. It's a great idea, and a needed one considering the cars lack of AERODYNAMIC GRIP.
And, just so you know, they're talking as we speak about 4-cell in Europe for next year.
And name me one class of RC racing that HAS NOT changed its rules over the years. Cat got your tongue?
I've got nothing against pinching pennies, but once again you're suggesting that you TC boys (especially you ones with old beaters) should be the only ones allowed to play in the sandbox, or pinch pennies to go TA racing --- and it ain't right..........
04-11-2008, 10:09 PM
#741
Suspended
I'm really not interested in continuing this back and forth banter.........
.........for it's obvious that many of you have your opinions, as I have mine, and that we're not going to agree.
Your arguments for the idea that it's a great place for your old, dust collecting, no longer competitive in TC, steed to take back up where they left off doesn't hold water - if it did they'd still be considered top-of-the-line racers in TC. But the fact is they aren't any longer there, and there's no greater chance of them being that in TA.
I'm all for the TA bodies, I'm all for the majority of the rules (4-cells, stock motors, and spec tires keep costs down). But the harsh reality of it is that all this is doing is creating another non-areo, low grip tire, 4-cell, stock TC class - and I think that's been done before to some extent or another.
If that's what you'll be happy running, fine I'm happy for ya.
But make sure all of you guys defending everything set aside check back and chime in this time next year (but make sure you're all running all your old gear, and haven't upgraded).
All I WAS doing was attempting to offer another option for people, a way for more people to get into the hobby, a way for someone less knowledgable of TCs to show up and race and not get schooled, an additional class that could increase interest as well as car counts at TransAm events.
As I said all along, before all of you gang-tackled me, I was just trying to voice MY opinion and offer up another idea and another way of thinking about it.
.........for it's obvious that many of you have your opinions, as I have mine, and that we're not going to agree.
Your arguments for the idea that it's a great place for your old, dust collecting, no longer competitive in TC, steed to take back up where they left off doesn't hold water - if it did they'd still be considered top-of-the-line racers in TC. But the fact is they aren't any longer there, and there's no greater chance of them being that in TA.
I'm all for the TA bodies, I'm all for the majority of the rules (4-cells, stock motors, and spec tires keep costs down). But the harsh reality of it is that all this is doing is creating another non-areo, low grip tire, 4-cell, stock TC class - and I think that's been done before to some extent or another.
If that's what you'll be happy running, fine I'm happy for ya.
But make sure all of you guys defending everything set aside check back and chime in this time next year (but make sure you're all running all your old gear, and haven't upgraded).
All I WAS doing was attempting to offer another option for people, a way for more people to get into the hobby, a way for someone less knowledgable of TCs to show up and race and not get schooled, an additional class that could increase interest as well as car counts at TransAm events.
As I said all along, before all of you gang-tackled me, I was just trying to voice MY opinion and offer up another idea and another way of thinking about it.
04-11-2008, 10:23 PM
#742
I don't think we are looking for something we can win at. We are looking for something we can race and have fun at. I have had plenty of losses in T/A. I have also laughed and had more fun on the drivers' stand in 5 or so months than I have in probably 10 years. I have seen more old faces coming out of the woodwork than I ever have. I have also seen more new guys than I have in years, and more spectators too.
Touring cars are cheap and easy to get, if you look around- Especially the plastic chassis cars. I listed all the outdated cars I have been beaten by. An unnamed Corally team driver was beaten (ahem) by a local with a Tamiya car at our track. Yeah, if he keeps at it, the Corally guy will be real fast in the class. The point, though, is that everybody has a fighting chance in there. And the cool factor is so high, we all enjoy the racing and have a ton of laughs, but still compete. Things would not be taking off like this if something was not going right.
So basically we want to grow what is working. Not that there isn't room for other stuff out there, but why not go with the momentum that has built?
Touring cars are cheap and easy to get, if you look around- Especially the plastic chassis cars. I listed all the outdated cars I have been beaten by. An unnamed Corally team driver was beaten (ahem) by a local with a Tamiya car at our track. Yeah, if he keeps at it, the Corally guy will be real fast in the class. The point, though, is that everybody has a fighting chance in there. And the cool factor is so high, we all enjoy the racing and have a ton of laughs, but still compete. Things would not be taking off like this if something was not going right.
So basically we want to grow what is working. Not that there isn't room for other stuff out there, but why not go with the momentum that has built?
04-11-2008, 10:33 PM
#743
RR40,
If you feel strongly enough about it, kick it around with the other racers and see if it "holds water".
If enough kids wanna play, the race director will surely set up a heat or 2.
Why wouldn't he?
So take "your" ball and see who wants to play by "your" rules.
That's what this guy did and it seems like a lot of kids wanna play by his rules.
If you feel strongly enough about it, kick it around with the other racers and see if it "holds water".
If enough kids wanna play, the race director will surely set up a heat or 2.
Why wouldn't he?
So take "your" ball and see who wants to play by "your" rules.
That's what this guy did and it seems like a lot of kids wanna play by his rules.
04-11-2008, 10:37 PM
#744
Tech Rookie
I'm really not interested in continuing this back and forth banter.........
.........for it's obvious that many of you have your opinions, as I have mine, and that we're not going to agree.
Your arguments for the idea that it's a great place for your old, dust collecting, no longer competitive in TC, steed to take back up where they left off doesn't hold water - if it did they'd still be considered top-of-the-line racers in TC. But the fact is they aren't any longer there, and there's no greater chance of them being that in TA.
I'm all for the TA bodies, I'm all for the majority of the rules (4-cells, stock motors, and spec tires keep costs down). But the harsh reality of it is that all this is doing is creating another non-areo, low grip tire, 4-cell, stock TC class - and I think that's been done before to some extent or another.
If that's what you'll be happy running, fine I'm happy for ya.
But make sure all of you guys defending everything set aside check back and chime in this time next year (but make sure you're all running all your old gear, and haven't upgraded).
All I WAS doing was attempting to offer another option for people, a way for more people to get into the hobby, a way for someone less knowledgable of TCs to show up and race and not get schooled, an additional class that could increase interest as well as car counts at TransAm events.
As I said all along, before all of you gang-tackled me, I was just trying to voice MY opinion and offer up another idea and another way of thinking about it.
.........for it's obvious that many of you have your opinions, as I have mine, and that we're not going to agree.
Your arguments for the idea that it's a great place for your old, dust collecting, no longer competitive in TC, steed to take back up where they left off doesn't hold water - if it did they'd still be considered top-of-the-line racers in TC. But the fact is they aren't any longer there, and there's no greater chance of them being that in TA.
I'm all for the TA bodies, I'm all for the majority of the rules (4-cells, stock motors, and spec tires keep costs down). But the harsh reality of it is that all this is doing is creating another non-areo, low grip tire, 4-cell, stock TC class - and I think that's been done before to some extent or another.
If that's what you'll be happy running, fine I'm happy for ya.
But make sure all of you guys defending everything set aside check back and chime in this time next year (but make sure you're all running all your old gear, and haven't upgraded).
All I WAS doing was attempting to offer another option for people, a way for more people to get into the hobby, a way for someone less knowledgable of TCs to show up and race and not get schooled, an additional class that could increase interest as well as car counts at TransAm events.
As I said all along, before all of you gang-tackled me, I was just trying to voice MY opinion and offer up another idea and another way of thinking about it.
WTF man? What do you think this class is? How many times have you even ran T/A class ANYWHERE???? I think you're the one looking for a class "they can win at" other wise you would'nt be complaining. There are more than 20 T/A cars showing up a night every where they are racing. Grow a pair and come racing. THEN comment on how good or bad the class is. Otherwise quit ruining the theme of this AWESOME CLASS that ANYONE could do very well at......INCLUDING YOU. Run a X Ray T2 008...run a TC3....run a TL01, everyone has a equal shot.....and everyone has FUN!!!
04-11-2008, 11:33 PM
#745
Suspended
I don't think we are looking for something we can win at. We are looking for something we can race and have fun at. I have had plenty of losses in T/A. I have also laughed and had more fun on the drivers' stand in 5 or so months than I have in probably 10 years. I have seen more old faces coming out of the woodwork than I ever have. I have also seen more new guys than I have in years, and more spectators too.
Touring cars are cheap and easy to get, if you look around- Especially the plastic chassis cars. I listed all the outdated cars I have been beaten by. An unnamed Corally team driver was beaten (ahem) by a local with a Tamiya car at our track. Yeah, if he keeps at it, the Corally guy will be real fast in the class. The point, though, is that everybody has a fighting chance in there. And the cool factor is so high, we all enjoy the racing and have a ton of laughs, but still compete. Things would not be taking off like this if something was not going right.
So basically we want to grow what is working. Not that there isn't room for other stuff out there, but why not go with the momentum that has built?
Touring cars are cheap and easy to get, if you look around- Especially the plastic chassis cars. I listed all the outdated cars I have been beaten by. An unnamed Corally team driver was beaten (ahem) by a local with a Tamiya car at our track. Yeah, if he keeps at it, the Corally guy will be real fast in the class. The point, though, is that everybody has a fighting chance in there. And the cool factor is so high, we all enjoy the racing and have a ton of laughs, but still compete. Things would not be taking off like this if something was not going right.
So basically we want to grow what is working. Not that there isn't room for other stuff out there, but why not go with the momentum that has built?
And as I said..... "If that's what you'll be happy running, fine I'm happy for ya.
But make sure all of you guys defending everything set aside check back and chime in this time next year (and make sure you're all running all your old gear, and haven't upgraded)."
No harm, no foul.............
Last edited by RocketRob40; 04-11-2008 at 11:51 PM.
04-11-2008, 11:48 PM
#746
Suspended
WTF man? What do you think this class is? How many times have you even ran T/A class ANYWHERE???? I think you're the one looking for a class "they can win at" other wise you would'nt be complaining. There are more than 20 T/A cars showing up a night every where they are racing. Grow a pair and come racing. THEN comment on how good or bad the class is. Otherwise quit ruining the theme of this AWESOME CLASS that ANYONE could do very well at......INCLUDING YOU. Run a X Ray T2 008...run a TC3....run a TL01, everyone has a equal shot.....and everyone has FUN!!!
Look I don't need your thinly-veiled profanity shouted at me.
I know exactly what the class is. And, realistically, since the so-called "class" hasn't really been around - seems as if you couldn't have run many TA races either. And while I can't be certain I've run more TransAm bodied races than you, I'm guessing you don't have a single national title on the shelf anywhere do you to back up your supposed expertise?
I'm NOT looking for a class, and I wasn't complaining - and you should really learn the difference between inquiring about, or offering up another option, or refuting lame excuses, and complaining. Look the word up in the dictionary if neccessary.
To tell the truth - my guess is I've "had a pair" back when you were still sucking mom's tit, so get over the tough guy talk and grow up.
And since when did they make YOU the official "if I don't like what someone else writes" -- God forbid someone actually has a freaking opinion -- "I'll cuss 'em out, chew 'em up and spit 'em out RCTech Forums police" ????
Oh, my mistake, you're a third-time poster --- and thus, coming in blasting away like that, puts you in the TROLL category.
04-12-2008, 01:34 AM
#748
Then you haven't a clue what mechanical grip is, or how it's achieved.
But just to give you some insight, while tires play part of the role in this - chassis, let me say it louder so you can hear it, CHASSIS design and mechanics and set-up has the most to do with mechanical grip (notice the operative word, mechanical).
And this is the reason why so many folks have gotten away from TCs, to stay competitive in the scheme of achieving optimum mechanical grip manufacturers are constantly redesigning the wheel to push the envelope and enable their cars to get more traction.
And that, pal, eventually takes everyone wanting to win back to the same old game of "buy some $450 rolling chassis just to hope to be competetive."
And I don't care what you might think, any motor manufacturer will tell you that there is no way you can compare brushed to brushless motors, Plain and simple, ain't gonna happen - period, end of story.
Since when is running stock motors, or limited them to 4-cells, a bastion of your new touring car class?
You can do that with any car, in any class - and I never mentioned that the "Lights" cars wouldn't follow this anyway. It's a great idea, and a needed one considering the cars lack of AERODYNAMIC GRIP.
And, just so you know, they're talking as we speak about 4-cell in Europe for next year.
Just to let you in on a dirty little secret --- THIS IS A NEW CLASS. FIRST YEAR EVER RUNNING. IT IS NOT ESTABLISHED. IT'S GOT NO HISTORY BACKING ITS PREMISE. And if one is going to get in on the ground floor of making change (or additions), or inquiring about it, it seems to make sense doing it sooner than later.
And name me one class of RC racing that HAS NOT changed its rules over the years. Cat got your tongue?
Sure you are. You're taking your admited older TC, that wouldn't be competative elsewhere, or that you've already retired instead of staying current and racing with the bigboys --- and breaking it out to bash around with the new boys. You are after trophies, or you would have kept running your outdated stuff against the newer stuff in TC. Your argument doesn't hold water.
I've got nothing against pinching pennies, but once again you're suggesting that you TC boys (especially you ones with old beaters) should be the only ones allowed to play in the sandbox, or pinch pennies to go TA racing --- and it ain't right..........
But just to give you some insight, while tires play part of the role in this - chassis, let me say it louder so you can hear it, CHASSIS design and mechanics and set-up has the most to do with mechanical grip (notice the operative word, mechanical).
And this is the reason why so many folks have gotten away from TCs, to stay competitive in the scheme of achieving optimum mechanical grip manufacturers are constantly redesigning the wheel to push the envelope and enable their cars to get more traction.
And that, pal, eventually takes everyone wanting to win back to the same old game of "buy some $450 rolling chassis just to hope to be competetive."
And I don't care what you might think, any motor manufacturer will tell you that there is no way you can compare brushed to brushless motors, Plain and simple, ain't gonna happen - period, end of story.
Since when is running stock motors, or limited them to 4-cells, a bastion of your new touring car class?
You can do that with any car, in any class - and I never mentioned that the "Lights" cars wouldn't follow this anyway. It's a great idea, and a needed one considering the cars lack of AERODYNAMIC GRIP.
And, just so you know, they're talking as we speak about 4-cell in Europe for next year.
Just to let you in on a dirty little secret --- THIS IS A NEW CLASS. FIRST YEAR EVER RUNNING. IT IS NOT ESTABLISHED. IT'S GOT NO HISTORY BACKING ITS PREMISE. And if one is going to get in on the ground floor of making change (or additions), or inquiring about it, it seems to make sense doing it sooner than later.
And name me one class of RC racing that HAS NOT changed its rules over the years. Cat got your tongue?
Sure you are. You're taking your admited older TC, that wouldn't be competative elsewhere, or that you've already retired instead of staying current and racing with the bigboys --- and breaking it out to bash around with the new boys. You are after trophies, or you would have kept running your outdated stuff against the newer stuff in TC. Your argument doesn't hold water.
I've got nothing against pinching pennies, but once again you're suggesting that you TC boys (especially you ones with old beaters) should be the only ones allowed to play in the sandbox, or pinch pennies to go TA racing --- and it ain't right..........
04-12-2008, 02:25 AM
#749
2 years ago i bought a nitro lst used form a guy...why...because i liked the way it looked. i had never raced a nitro so i knew nothing about the setup, how to tune, what springs and all the other stuff that goes along with it. but i raced it and met a geat bunch of people that helped me along the way...i learned
2 weeks ago i bought a used tc3 and vintage rims and tires... i think ya all know why. do i know how to set up a touring car, nope... never touched one, but i will learn and im sure that there are people that will help me along the way. will i get beat by the next best car out there..im sure but he will get the weight added for the win. its about time this sport / hobby became fun again.
after all it is just a toy...thanks for reading
2 weeks ago i bought a used tc3 and vintage rims and tires... i think ya all know why. do i know how to set up a touring car, nope... never touched one, but i will learn and im sure that there are people that will help me along the way. will i get beat by the next best car out there..im sure but he will get the weight added for the win. its about time this sport / hobby became fun again.
after all it is just a toy...thanks for reading