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Old 12-30-2009, 12:35 PM   #7246
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what Oval guy?....dirt oval maybe...but they dont run 21.5's...nor does anybody in this area...oh except VTA guys...we put that little 21.5 Novak only motor on the map....
Uh...no. The oval guys DEFINITELY led the way on the 21.5 and I'd be willing to bet there are more 21.5's in oval cars than there are in VTA cars, likely by a fair margin.

I just raced carpet oval for the first time in over 20 years earlier this month and was turned loose in a car being set-up for the Snowbirds. I was a bit skeptical, but it really was a lot of fun, and very challenging to hit those marks lap after lap after lap. The car was dialed PERFECTLY, the driver was a bit ragged.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:41 PM   #7247
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do you know that even in mod touring cars you have door-to-door racing...
They do? I've seen vids from TC mod at both IIC and the Indoor champs...precious little "door-to-door" action there, and these were the A-mains with the top drivers in the nation/world.

Door-to-door doesn't mean occasionally near someone...door-to-door means extended periods of time with 2, 3, 4 or more cars that could be covered with a beach towel, passing and re-passing in consecutive turns based on who has the inside for which turn. I know it CAN mean different things to different people, but your example of "door-to-door" racing from a couple weeks ago now IN VTA had the closest finishers 2+ seconds apart, with most folks 4-6 seconds apart. That's not door-to-door, that's a parade where folks getting passed are "door-to-door" as they're getting their doors blown off, then back to single file.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:46 PM   #7248
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did you just say that?....you want someone to go and buy a Ballistic for $90 bucks and run it for 5-6 months...and then turn around and buy a stator for another $40 in Sept.????...REALLY!...and do what with the 21.5 stator?....oh thats just another point Im making...more waste....

BTW...my tires last a long time...still have my original set...almost 3 years..(not ran every race...but still work just fine...lol)
Actually I didn't say it I typed it

Everyone has their own opinion and ours just happen to differ,I feel if someone enjoys the class and wants to see it continue they will have no problem with the "extra" few dollars that a motor change will cost to bring the class back to what it was meant to be.

BTW I don't know how you have had a set of tires running for three years,you want a pile of 3 good and 1 bald tire sets to pass out?
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:53 PM   #7249
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I have no idea what to say to you guys. I can only go forward with what I know will work. I'm sorry if you don't agree with what has been instituted.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:54 PM   #7250
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I like the rules changes. How often do we get 9+ months to prepare for changes in any r/c class.

I think one thing that is being overlooked is that it is still up to local clubs to ultimately do what is best for local racing. No one said that local clubs couldn't further limit racers using timing advanced speed controls or 21.5 motors to be similar speeds to the 25.5 motor. A lot of clubs already have rules in place that create a level playing field in VTA that aren't in the official USVTA rules. Currently there are tracks that allow silver can motors or stock motors with lipo batteries or speed limits. While these rules aren't USVTA legal it works locally. The one thing the new rules do is help those that travel to other tracks or big events racing official VTA rules.

I personally will be helping those I race with locally to transition to the new rules. Locally we will find ways to help phase in the new rules so that we won't leave anyone behind. This is the part the I've always like most about VTA locally is that the majority are there to help out the other racers.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #7251
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keep the 21.5 motors and change out esc's...cause at $150 esc/motor is still $150....its funny that all over this thread Ive pushed the Havok 21.5 combo for the $150...and it got ignored constantly...

Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Please take this as a friendly advise, you just basicly answered your own question. Why would ppl buy the $150 combo even though you were trying very hard to push that combo when they can spend $200 for the TEKIN RS/LRP SPX for the speedo and be competitive...? Who want to be slower? No one...if the old rules allow OPEN speedo...who want a GTB or HAVOC?

Rob and USVTA is trying to fix that. ONE level of spec speedo, so no one can complain about my speedo has more performance advance then yours...and NOVAK is backing this up with their data.

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thats the whole point of all that I typed...I dont wont to see ppl losing money on good equipment....if you are running an ADV ESC...and dont want to run VTA, you can put in a 17.5/13.5..ect and go race still...and thats what I see ppl doing, and not just the adv esc guys...the 2-5 guys running Havoks/GTB's/Spheres will probably run a different class if the gotto buy a new motor as well....I know the adv esc racers are gone...unless they can sell that SPX,Tekin,KO.....and with the Black Dimond...who wants those esc's...so for them its lose lose situation...

change the esc, not the motor
Those who has fancy speedo (INCLUDING me, I have alot...) they can use them for different classes (almost any classes beside F1 and USVTA does allow open speedo). Or they can sell that for $130 (should be very easy) and buy the Novak USVTA special combo for $129. Those who has SS21.5 (Me again...) can think about the Novak trade in program....or simply sell it, get some cash, and buy another Ballasitc 25.5 or SS25.5 and join USVTA. Even though USVTA stick with 21.5....it will be only NOVAK SS 21.5 and Ballasic 21.5...for those who has Duo 2, SP 21.5...they have to change anyway. Since everything are changing, might as well get a slower motor and slow things up....Rob is trying to fix the problem, he is the public enermy already, might as well get the whole thing take care of...

You mentioned this is NOT about money....it is all about MONEY in my opinion. But if what I said was correct, the money ppl will have to spend should not be more then $50. In some case...you can get money back. I have a SP GT2 Pro to sell for $120 easy, plus my SS21.5 for another $50...buy the Novak VTA special havoc combo for $130....I have $40 left, good enough for couple new bodies or a set of tires.

Those who want to race VTA will adopt the new rule cause they know it is a good class. I highly doubt the ppl to join the VTA under the new rule will decrease by the end of next year. The rule is a lot more FAIR then before, CHEAPER then before and we have NOVAK behind this...I wish they can do that for EVERY CLASSES.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:58 PM   #7252
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The simple solution (but hardest to tech) for the ESC issue would be to not allow timing advance/boost/turbo, and to limit what profiles other ESCs can use. Since it would be a major PITA to police this, I understand why Rob wants to limit the ESCs to a select few. One less thing to worry about to limit cheating. Tekin has stated that they would be willing to make a "VTA" version of RS firmware that had those features removed, and a special chime to indicate the type of firmware. Would this not be acceptable to all parties?

Those who already have an RS wouldn't have to buy another ESC, and could buy the new stator or motor instead.

If these timing features were removed from the ESCs, would 21.5 motors be slow enough?
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:58 PM   #7253
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I have no idea what to say to you guys. I can only go forward with what I know will work. I'm sorry if you don't agree with what has been instituted.
that's cool and all rob - because i see the beating you have taken in the last few hours

but why the move from the 21.5 motor? i think that's the million dollar question that will solve alot of this
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:00 PM   #7254
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I have no idea what to say to you guys.
you just ruined our lives, and this is all you have to offer for consolation?

god [email protected]!
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:01 PM   #7255
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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
The simple solution (but hardest to tech) for the ESC issue would be to not allow timing advance/boost/turbo, and to limit what profiles other ESCs can use. Since it would be a major PITA to police this, I understand why Rob wants to limit the ESCs to a select few. One less thing to worry about to limit cheating. Tekin has stated that they would be willing to make a "VTA" version of RS firmware that had those features removed, and a special chime to indicate the type of firmware. Would this not be acceptable to all parties?

Those who already have an RS wouldn't have to buy another ESC, and could buy the new stator or motor instead.

If these timing features were removed from the ESCs, would 21.5 motors be slow enough?
ME LIKELY - and I'm sure the other 100 or so drivers that using the RS will love that as well

and with a hotwire, it simple to check verions and settings

best news i heard all day - please say yes Rob
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:02 PM   #7256
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I just put a trans am car together and was wondering who makes the rules up. Is there a governing body? If so who does it consist of and did they get elected. I'm not trying to start an uproar I'm just curios
It's me Rob King. Doug Carter organized the whole thing 2 years ago. Before Doug, a bunch of guys in Green Bay, Milwaukee, and Montana had been running the seminal class. Marty Hageman got the ball rolling in Milwaukee, where things really took off. 4 cell and 27 turn, which was slow.

Right now, Kevin Kane, Howard Lo, Jimmy Stegen, Rick Vessel, Eric Whiteside, Kris Polonczak, and a lot of other guys help with testing, and evaluating ideas. I didn't pull this out of the air, these guys helped a lot. Ultimately, it's my responsibility though.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:02 PM   #7257
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If these timing features were removed from the ESCs, would 21.5 motors be slow enough?
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but why the move from the 21.5 motor? i think that's the million dollar question that will solve alot of this
Question has been answered, ad nauseum, by RobK and a host of others several times now over the last fair while. RobK (and others) have even addressed/answered it within the past 24 hours since the change was announced.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:06 PM   #7258
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Question has been answered, ad nauseum, by RobK and a host of others several times now over the last fair while. RobK (and others) have even addressed/answered it within the past 24 hours since the change was announced.
then excuse my blindness, because i didn't see the reason why the 25.5 motors

trust me, i get the speedo - but miss the reason for the motors

if you meant this comment from rob - The 25.5 cars were about 4.-.5 off a 21.5 car, but on larger asphalt tracks this will probably be more.

i don't see that as an explanation for the change
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:08 PM   #7259
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you just ruined our lives, and this is all you have to offer for consolation?

god [email protected]!
I think I'm gonna send Rob a chicky shirt to wear around you Chris
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:11 PM   #7260
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ME LIKELY - and I'm sure the other 100 or so drivers that using the RS will love that as well

and with a hotwire, it simple to check verions and settings

best news i heard all day - please say yes Rob
OK....please help Rob to do this....if he allowed TEKIN RS even Tekin created a locked VTA software with special light and thingy...what about those who use AE Blackdiamond? And LRP SPX....also Speed Passion GT2...? If VTA allow one, he has to allow the rest of them....guest how long for them (mfr) to create a software or willing to do that..?

Now....a VTA event with 80 racers, lets say 20 drivers per brand...gues how long it take for TECH..?

We will be back to year 2009...almost has NO CHANGE whatsoever.
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